Princess Märtha Louise & Durek Verrett: News & Information

[REAL COUNTESS]

Maybe the Shamon should stop with this nonsense he is selling, people will think differently of him, maybe? Who are his fallowers in the US, oh yes a G Paltrow and a few others no one cares about. I am just stunned about ML's statement, that she did not realized how racist Norway was or is. Not a nice thing to say about her countryman, since she is not just a plain nobody, but the daughter of the King of Norway. She needs to engage her brain before she speaks. IMO she has changed a lot, sadly not for the better.

[Heavs]

They probably have received racism in Norway in a direct way because of who ML is and maybe that part will be better in the US, although despite their unpopularity in Norway I'm not sure an assassination attempt is very likely. However ML and her children could be targeted because of who they are for any number of reasons in Norway and at least theoretically it wouldn't be too hard to track them down in LA if a person or group wanted, which is why they would probably still need security. And that's before you consider the general atmosphere in the US right now and if that will be a problem.

It also doesn't stop the criticism of them with their stage shows/webinars/consultations both in Norway and elsewhere. SD seems to publish at least several critical articles of Madeleine's life in Miami a week even though she's pretty private apart from kid photos on Instagram.

Also I suspect they're conflagrating at least some criticism/outrage of Durek as a person as racism when it's not and whilst Dureks GOOPy friends in LA will still eat his brand up it's probably not going to stop for some valid reasons.

[Muhler]

I'm going to explain about "privet Fascism" because that's essential to help understand "racism" in Norway and how it manifest itself.

Privet fascism is something you find in tribes (the Norwegians being a tribe), villages and middle-class neighborhoods.
They are typically close communities, with people who have roughly the same cultural (and ethnic) background. Who are similar in regards to their outlook on life, similar in their general mindset, their view of duty and rights and proper behavior. It's a society with a considerable albeit subtle degree of social control.
Such communities also tend to believe their way of life is superior to most other ways, if not the best (nationalism) and they tend to view outsiders with a considerable degree of skepticism, even suspicion. Unless the outsider conforms, preferably totally.

There are great advantages in living in such a community. The feeling of safety and trust is very high. The roots of the community are deep and the sense of belonging very strong. And if you are an accepted part of such a community you will be looked after, you will be cared for, you will find company, you will feel at ease.
In return you are expected to do your duty to the community, to conform and not least to behave like a good member of the community.

If you don't, you are out! If you don't conform, you're an outsider. You'll at best be seen as an eccentric and you won't be accepted. Probably never.
The community will reach out to you initially. But if you don't accept and embrace and conform to the standards of the community, you are out!

Hence the expression: Privet Fascist.

- I believe I can speak with considerable authority as I am a part of a tribe, the Danes and physically live in a village.

ML has never really conformed to the standards of her tribe.

-----------------

As for racism in Norway. I think the perception is that racism is about the color of Durek's skin. That's only a part of it, it's mainly about how he culturally stands out, with the added touch of privet Fascism.

Basically, had Durek been an ordinary higher middle class lawyer or doctor he would by far the most Norwegians be seen as an American who is black, rather than a black American. Of that I'm absolutely certain.
That difference however is important!
Americans (of all colors) are different from Norwegians, but not that different. A black American with a mindset that I will label "typically American middle class" would have few problems being embraced and accepted into the Norwegian tribe. Especially if they live in America most of the times. He would be met with a high degree of tolerance by most Norwegians even if he made the odd mistake. And their mixed marriage wouldn't be seen as problem by most Norwegians, even though ML is member of the NRF.

But, and I'm probably going to offend some here, so be it. I have to in order to explain it.
Had Durek come from Africa, or the Caribbean. I.e. a culture that is markedly different from Norwegian culture, then it would have been a different matter! And ML and Durek would have faced direct racism from the very beginning. Especially if Durek had come from a country where there have been and are problems regarding integration of immigrants to Norway from such a country!
So yes, there is racism in Norway, but different from USA IMO.

To sum up: Racism in Norway (Scandinavia/Europe) is based on cultural background first with ethnicity coming second.
While racism in USA is perhaps more based on ethnicity and then cultural background?

I hope this made sense.

[Prinsara]

I think your "hedge fascism" sounds like what I've heard about Jante's Laws in Scandinavia, Muhler, unless you mean something else? (So it sounds like Ari, too, never was accepted, then, unless perhaps by his family?)

All right, here's another question for the debate. If Verrett were still an African-American spiritualist from the same sort of background, but without the pathological lying, fraudulent tendencies, over-emoting and aggrandizment — would he be more accepted/acceptable in Norway, or would the cultural eccentricities immediately be enough to keep him out of the herd? Edit: Given that he does not need to be part of the herd or live next door, just be the guy who shows up all the time with the princess.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

I think your "hedge fascism" sounds like what I've heard about Jante's Laws in Scandinavia, Muhler, unless you mean something else? (So it sounds like Ari, too, never was accepted, then, unless perhaps by his family?)

All right, here's another question for the debate. If Verrett were still an African-American spiritualist from the same sort of background, but without the pathological lying, fraudulent tendencies, over-emoting and aggrandizment — would he be more accepted/acceptable in Norway, or would the cultural eccentricities immediately be enough to keep him out of the herd?

Hedge Fascism is a much better translation.
No, they are not the same.

Jante's Law is about not sticking out from everybody else, not showing that you think you are better at something than everybody else.
It's typical for a society that view itself as very egalitarian. And as Royal Norway has taught us, the Norwegians are fiercely egalitarian.
For the Australians, who also see themselves as belonging to an egalitarian society, it's the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Hedge Fascism is about belonging. Total belonging.
If you join a tribe/village/community you are expected to be absorbed into the tribe. It's the tribe's way of doing things... It's the tribe's way of behaving.... It's the tribe's moral codes that matters. You are loyal to the tribe.
In return the tribe will embrace and protect you and treat you like one of their own.
But if you don't conform to the tribe's norms you are not accepted.

We saw it with Prince Henrik in DK. He never really conformed to the norms of the Danish tribe and as such he was only being accepted, more for his quirkiness actually, towards the end of his life. (He also had a tendency from time to time to set all he had worked for ten years back.) And Prince Henrik wasn't black at all.

ADDED: An archetypical hedge-fascist will often be in favor of pretty draconian measures against people who don't conform to the community's norms. - "Kick 'em out the country!" "Take away their welfare!" "A couple of years of hard labour will do them good!" "Ordnung muss sein!"
And tribal mentality and hedge fascism often go hand in hand.

-------------

Your question is a difficult one!

Let me put it like this: The more different the African (but more normal) Durek's cultural background is from that of the Norwegian, the higher the tendency to also factor in his ethnic background, when looking at his suitability as a match for a Norwegian Princess.
That would be my best assessment.

I firmly believe that the resentment towards Durek in Norway is based on a general belief in him being a quack. His racial and cultural background being very secondary in this context.
That's why I believe the risk to his and ML's personal safety is very limited in Norway.
I could mention another Scandinavian country and a number of Continental European countries where I believe Durek's racial background combined with him dating a princess would constitute a markedly higher risk of an attack.
But that's outside the scope of this thread.

[Muhler]

Afterthought.

I honestly don't believe racism is a significant issue in this matter for the Norwegians.
I actually believe their main resentment is towards ML, for having a relationship with an obvious charlatan and thereby embarrassing the tribe, due to her status as a royal.

A case of: She can marry whoever she wants, but she better not embarrass her tribe and the rest of the otherwise respected royal family by doing so.

That she and Durek insist on having such a high profile regarding their relationship and work, are using ML's royal status and Durek having such an... astounding... history, now combined with ML bringing up racism, is hardly going to diminish the irritation and resentment the Norwegians have towards the couple.

In other words: Durek is IMO in the eyes of most Norwegians a quack. A quack who happens to be black, but he is first and foremost a quack.

[HereditaryPrincess]

If anyone is interested, here is a good article about racism in modern Norway, and how prevalent it is:

https://blogs.prio.org/2020/06/it-sh...ing-in-norway/

Interesting observation, Muhler, on Scandinavian/Norwegian racism. I tend to think of British racism as "polite racism" (I know that's an oxymoron!) as it is often disguised as a legitimate debate/opinion but it is, in fact, actually inflammatory that encourages stereotypes of particular communities. Or at least, that is what I've gathered from where I live in particular.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess

If anyone is interested, here is a good article about racism in modern Norway, and how prevalent it is:

https://blogs.prio.org/2020/06/it-sh...ing-in-norway/

Interesting observation, Muhler, on Scandinavian/Norwegian racism. I tend to think of British racism as "polite racism" (I know that's an oxymoron!) as it is often disguised as a legitimate debate/opinion but it is, in fact, actually inflammatory that encourages stereotypes of particular communities. Or at least, that is what I've gathered from where I live in particular.

The problem is, that while racism certainly exists in Norway like everywhere else, in its own localized forms, ML and Verrett are claiming that (solely) this is why people dislike Verrett, when he is giving them the perfectly good excuse that he's a lying creep.

It would be interesting to see what they did if he were green or purple and a less hackles-raising sort of person.

It's not about what he looks like; it's very much about who he is. Or to paraphrase MLK, not judging on the color of skin, but on content of character.

[Lady Daly]

ML and sham are an example of diversity going beyond an acceptable social norm. I'm referring to ethnocentrism, an acceptance of culturally alike and rejection of the unlike. Ethnocentrism is everywhere. These two will face major obstacles no matter where they go, stay in Norway or move to the US.

A covid and post covid world in the US doesn't look very inviting. Our current economic situation and outlook is quite grim. I'm watching Mercedes Benz and other high end cars line up for food boxes in LA yesterday, on tv. Closer to home the HOA board of the rather high end condominiums where I live sent out a letter explaining they have been receiving physical and verbal assault and will be taking action against members. I'm assuming members are unable to pay their HOA dues along with who knows what. The US Fed Chairman Powell last week announced "the Covid-19 pandemic brought the economy to a screeching halt, and while it has started its long road to recovery, the economy we knew is probably a thing of the past." So, gone are the days of people plunking down a bunch of money on magic dust. As far as the LA Hollywood scene where sham has found some success, that's not exactly thriving. It might be time for this misunderstood duo to wake up and realize their days of fleecing the public is coming to a close.

[Katrianna]

Martha Louise's claim of being surprised at the racism in Norway appears to me as a put on statement, I can't believe a woman with the education and travels that she has had over her life puts out such a naive statement. Did she really think racism only existed in, for example, the US and the UK? Come on!

Your discussion of Norwegian racism Muhler and other's posts following were very interesting. I go along with the view that Durek is not welcomed with opened arms in Norway because he's black, but because he's a self-proclaimed "shaman" and really no more than the old fashioned evangelists who claimed miracle cures and they could make people walk on water while pushing elixirs and various questionable potions for sale.

Remember when Durek first came to Norway and stated on a talk show, I believe it was, that he had had lunch with the King and Queen, everything was great with the King and Queen, how they liked him...etc. The Royal Court quickly issued a statement that any meeting/luncheon hadn't taken place. Right there is the question of credibility and trust.
Now Durek's statement that the King has given permission for him to ask Martha Louise to marry him while Martha Louise quickly issued a "not so fast" statement.

If Durek would have been a professional such as a lawyer, Dr.. or a degree in education such as a professor, he may have been more favorably looked upon in Norway, I don't know, I will most humbly stand corrected.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

The problem is, that while racism certainly exists in Norway like everywhere else, in its own localized forms, ML and Verrett are claiming that (solely) this is why people dislike Verrett, when he is giving them the perfectly good excuse that he's a lying creep.

It would be interesting to see what they did if he were green or purple and a less hackles-raising sort of person.

It's not about what he looks like; it's very much about who he is. Or to paraphrase MLK, not judging on the color of skin, but on content of character.

But that's not what I was referring to. The discussion was about racism in Norway in general, so I was contributing to it.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess

But that's not what I was referring to. The discussion was about racism in Norway in general, so I was contributing to it.

but the point is ML has been saying "OH I never realised that Norway was so racist" when presumably planning on living or staying with DUrek in the US where - there is also racism as has been instanced this year when tensions have been high... and racism exists in every country, so why move to the US and blame Norway when it exists there too. It seems unfair to attack her native country for a fault that exists everywhere, and I agree with others that if her relationship with her new partner isnt looked on favourably in Norway, it is very possibly due to the fact that many people think he's a fraud and a charlatan not because of his colour.

[Claire]

Can i ask the moderators to change the name of this thread :

Princess Märtha Louise & her new love Durek Verrett: News & Information

Can it just be Princess Märtha Louise & Durek Verrett: News & Information

[SLV]

Yes, not quite new anymore.

[Alisa]

I think in Märtha's defense it is only since dating Durek has she truly come to know of racism and its ugly head(s).

However this is true for most people. It is easy to be "aware" of societal's evils from a distance and another thing to truly "know" it when you or a loved one "experience" it.

Many people will say- "I'm not racist" yet check their physical and facial reactions when asked "How would you feel if your daughter brought home a minority with plans to marry?".

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I think in Märtha's defense it is only since dating Durek has she truly come to know of racism and its ugly head(s).

However this is true for most people. It is easy to be "aware" of societal's evils from a distance and another thing to truly "know" it when you or a loved one "experience" it.

Many people will say- "I'm not racist" yet check their physical and facial reactions when asked "How would you feel if your daughter brought home a minority with plans to marry?".

That is very true.

Also within minorities.
Minority A, who may suffer from examples of racism (or perhaps rather discrimination) would be absolutely horrified at the prospect of his/her daughter bringing home a guy from minority B!
Racism is indeed has a multi-faceted head.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Originally Posted by Denville

but the point is ML has been saying "OH I never realised that Norway was so racist" when presumably planning on living or staying with DUrek in the US where - there is also racism as has been instanced this year when tensions have been high... and racism exists in every country, so why move to the US and blame Norway when it exists there too. It seems unfair to attack her native country for a fault that exists everywhere, and I agree with others that if her relationship with her new partner isnt looked on favourably in Norway, it is very possibly due to the fact that many people think he's a fraud and a charlatan not because of his colour.

Again; I'll stress that wasn't what I was referring to. Some posters were asking about racism in Norway in a general sense and not linking to ML's comments, so I was contributing to those queries.

[eya]

Shots from behind the scenes of the Vanity Fair photo shoot for the Couple


https://www.instagram.com/p/CJDxc3bAHyz/

[Muhler]

Thanks, Eya.

Okay, we are all body-language experts, so what do you think?
My impression is that Durek's body-language here doesn't match the otherwise flowery utterings he has come up with regarding ML.
ML however is more warm, playful and dare I say girlish towards Durek.

[Nice Nofret]

she comes over as playfull, genuine and warm, he as stiff and only concerened with his own image to look supirior