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  #381  
Old 11-05-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Precisley. It IS contradictory and a member of this forum was told form BP a few years ago that the children were Viscount Severn and Lady Louise, not "HRH's who weren't using their style of HRH".
If I remember it correctly the member that you refer to is Iluvebertie and it happened quite a long time ago.
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  #382  
Old 12-09-2021, 05:20 PM
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Louise has been Lady Louise for years. If she was to suddenly become Princess Louise, would it not be confusing for her?
James has been Viscount Severn for years. If he was to suddenly become Prince James, would it not be confusing for him?
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  #383  
Old 12-09-2021, 05:55 PM
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It happens all the time. Viscount Linley became the Earl of Snowdon, and Charles Armstrong-Jones became Viscount Linley. The Marquess of Blandford became the Duke of Marlborough, and the Earl of Sunderland in turn became the Marquess of Blandford. Depending on the particular circumstances, Miss Smith may become Lady Mary when her grandfather dies and her father inherits a title, and Master Smith may become Lord X or the Hon X. Viscount Althorp became Earl Spencer.If Prince Edward at some point becomes Duke of Edinburgh, James may become the Earl of Wessex or the Earl of Merioneth. Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark became the Duke of Edinburgh and then Prince Philip of the United Kingdom. And so on and so forth!


The idea of suddenly becoming a princess on your 18th birthday sounds a bit strange, like something out of a fairy story, but titles do get changed all the time. It's presumably no more confusing than getting married and going from being Miss Jane Smith to Mrs Jane Bloggs.
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  #384  
Old 12-09-2021, 06:22 PM
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Anyway, she won't 'suddenly become' Princess Louise, she has to choose to do it.

Like getting married and choosing to change your name, but not much like getting a title, courtesy title, or style by inheritance.
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  #385  
Old 12-11-2021, 09:13 AM
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Its hardly a big deal is it? If it happens which IMO is unlikely.
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  #386  
Old 12-11-2021, 10:06 AM
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If she chose to adopt the title HRH Princess, which of course she has always been entitled to, it wouldn't look good for her. It would give the impression that she is a snob and I'm sure the media would portray her in that way for doing it. That is why I think Edward and Sophie put their children in an awkward situation by not giving them the HRH. It's ok saying they can use it later on in life if they wish but I don't think it would be an easy transition because it would portray them in a negative light. I feel they have been cheated a bit out of something that was rightfully theirs so I hope they are happy about the decision within themselves.
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  #387  
Old 12-11-2021, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
If she chose to adopt the title HRH Princess, which of course she has always been entitled to, it wouldn't look good for her. It would give the impression that she is a snob and I'm sure the media would portray her in that way for doing it. That is why I think Edward and Sophie put their children in an awkward situation by not giving them the HRH. It's ok saying they can use it later on in life if they wish but I don't think it would be an easy transition because it would portray them in a negative light. I feel they have been cheated a bit out of something that was rightfully theirs so I hope they are happy about the decision within themselves.
Why would it look snobbish for her to adopt a title which, as you said, she has always been entitled to and which her parents decided on her behalf that she would not use as child? If anything, the mistake was not calling her HRH Princess Louise of Wessex from birth, which was unnecessary. Titles are not linked to being a working royal or receiving public funding as the examples of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie or Prince Michael show. There was no need to strip her of a princely title to signify that she was not expected to be a working royal. And it is indeed awkward that she and her brother were given a different treatment than the York girls.

I sympathize with the idea of restricting the HRH to children of the heir only (following the recent examples of the Netherlands and Spain), but, if that is decision, then do it in the next generatiion, i.e, for Prince Charles' descendants only when he is King (and descendants of future Sovereigns thereafter), and do it properly by new Letters Patent issued by the King.
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  #388  
Old 12-11-2021, 10:34 AM
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I have never understood Sophie's remark about Louise and indeed James been able to simple choose what they want the title to be. It doesn't make sense. It is decided by the monarch and the monarch only. If the Queen wants her corgi to be a Duchess then it will be so. The situation for the Wessex in 1999 is not really different then today in the broad view. Edward is number 13 heading down on the line of succession. If they need Louise to take up engagements she can go so as Lady Louise, but I do not seem her picking up engagement before the York princesses and Princess Anne's children.
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  #389  
Old 12-11-2021, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I have never understood Sophie's remark about Louise and indeed James been able to simple choose what they want the title to be. It doesn't make sense. It is decided by the monarch and the monarch only. If the Queen wants her corgi to be a Duchess then it will be so. The situation for the Wessex in 1999 is not really different then today in the broad view. Edward is number 13 heading down on the line of succession. If they need Louise to take up engagements she can go so as Lady Louise, but I do not seem her picking up engagement before the York princesses and Princess Anne's children.
I presume that if Sophie said this, she knows that the queen would be ok if the children wanted to use HRH. It does not mean that they have to do engagements, but possibly, with the loss of some royals, they are considering using Louise at least for a few years.
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  #390  
Old 12-11-2021, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Why would it look snobbish for her to adopt a title which, as you said, she has always been entitled to and which her parents decided on her behalf that she would not use as child? If anything, the mistake was not calling her HRH Princess Louise of Wessex from birth, which was unnecessary. Titles are not linked to being a working royal or receiving public funding as the examples of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie or Prince Michael show. There was no need to strip her of a princely title to signify that she was not expected to be a working royal. And it is indeed awkward that she and her brother were given a different treatment than the York girls.

I sympathize with the idea of restricting the HRH to children of the heir only (following the recent examples of the Netherlands and Spain), but, if that is decision, then do it in the next generatiion, i.e, for Prince Charles' descendants only when he is King (and descendants of future Sovereigns thereafter), and do it properly by new Letters Patent issued by the King.
I said the media would portray her to look like a snob. They would suggest that she must be a rather grand person to adopt the title and the fact that she was always entitled to it wouldn't be emphasised. I agree that it would have been better to have done things in reverse ie to have let the children be born HRH Princess and Prince and then let them renounce it later in life if they wanted to.
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  #391  
Old 12-11-2021, 02:03 PM
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BTW I do like Edward and Sophie but I think the whole issue regarding their childrens titles has been a bit of a mess.
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  #392  
Old 12-11-2021, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
BTW I do like Edward and Sophie but I think the whole issue regarding their childrens titles has been a bit of a mess.
I think its rather foolish to have raised the issue of them taking HRH at this late stage but I think it was a good idea to have them use the rank of the children of an Earl. Possibly Sophie began to feel that her children should have the same titles as Andrew's girls.. and I think the queen never liked the idea of her grandchildren not have HRH. So she was willing to agree to it.. However IMO its unlikely that the children want to be HRH and wont take it up.
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  #393  
Old 12-11-2021, 02:38 PM
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I think it might look questionable for Louise to start using the title without doing royal duties, but, if she decides to do both, I don't see a problem. However, she may well be hoping to go on to university, in which case it's going to be nearly 4 years before she'd be in a position to take on a lot of royal engagements.


For her sake, I kind of hope that she decides to lead a private life. If she decides to become a working royal, it won't be long before people are making comments about her clothes, her hair, her weight, etc, and any boyfriends will come under so much scrutiny that they might be put off. But I do think she could do a good job, and another pair of hands in the younger generation would certainly be welcome.
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  #394  
Old 12-11-2021, 03:04 PM
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BTW I do like Edward and Sophie but I think the whole issue regarding their children's titles has been a bit of a mess.
I agree - I understand that there was a request to release a letter patent or that there was a letter patent. But it never happened. I doubt we will ever be told the reasoning of the palace.

Looking back now - if the patent exist. It might have solved many problems - and clarified a lot of issues.
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  #395  
Old 12-11-2021, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think it might look questionable for Louise to start using the title without doing royal duties, but, if she decides to do both, I don't see a problem. However, she may well be hoping to go on to university, in which case it's going to be nearly 4 years before she'd be in a position to take on a lot of royal engagements.


For her sake, I kind of hope that she decides to lead a private life. If she decides to become a working royal, it won't be long before people are making comments about her clothes, her hair, her weight, etc, and any boyfriends will come under so much scrutiny that they might be put off. But I do think she could do a good job, and another pair of hands in the younger generation would certainly be welcome.
I think that they might be thinking of flexible hours so to speak.... whether she becomes HRH or not.. she could take on some patronages on a part time basis while at Uni, and later, poss when she marries or has a career, she can slip back to not working for the family. I think that with the sudden loss of some people and others getting older, now, the RF may be thinking of "part time helpers" provided it is clear that its on an "as needed for a few years" basis rather than a young royal becoming a full time worker for life as has tended to be the case.
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  #396  
Old 12-11-2021, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I agree - I understand that there was a request to release a letter patent or that there was a letter patent. But it never happened. I doubt we will ever be told the reasoning of the palace.

Looking back now - if the patent exist. It might have solved many problems - and clarified a lot of issues.
I dont think that there was a lot to clarify, albeit Sophi'es talking about it did make things more unclear. I think that Ed and Sophie at the time of their marriage saw themselves as mainly private people wiht their own careers. So they were happy with the children not being HRH. But their careers did not go that well and there was a slot for them to come in and help more and more and now as the queen is a lot older, things have changed...
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  #397  
Old 12-11-2021, 04:15 PM
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And, 18 years ago, they would have assumed that Harry, Harry's future wife, Andrew and probably Beatrice and Eugenie would all be full time working royals by the time Louise had grown up, meaning that the Wessexes would be well down the list. Yes, Edward's further down the line of succession than he was in 1999, but over half the people ahead of him are aged under 9. Things have a habit of not turning out the way you'd expected!
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  #398  
Old 12-11-2021, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
And, 18 years ago, they would have assumed that Harry, Harry's future wife, Andrew and probably Beatrice and Eugenie would all be full time working royals by the time Louise had grown up, meaning that the Wessexes would be well down the list. Yes, Edward's further down the line of succession than he was in 1999, but over half the people ahead of him are aged under 9. Things have a habit of not turning out the way you'd expected!
probably, though Im not sure if they really thought that Bea and Eugenie would be full time royals.
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  #399  
Old 12-11-2021, 08:15 PM
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Have responded here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2442459
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