Titles of the Wessex Children

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

Sophie answered a question when doing an interview for The Sunday Times and she herself mentions that their children can choose to use their HRH style we 18 if they wish. I imagine her understanding of the titles is better than us and she says that they do actually have the titles, they chose to not use them but they can if they want.


“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.” The Countess of Wessex

I thought that someone on this forum had written to BP to ask about this issue and was told that the childern did not have HRH....

[Molly2101]

Originally Posted by Denville

I thought that someone on this forum had written to BP to ask about this issue and was told that the childern did not have HRH....

As did I but Sophie has said they do and they are her children and I’m sure she was involved in the decision. If she says they’ve got them but just aren’t using them then they must have them. She’d know more than we do surely?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

Sophie answered a question when doing an interview for The Sunday Times and she herself mentions that their children can choose to use their HRH style we 18 if they wish. I imagine her understanding of the titles is better than us and she says that they do actually have the titles, they chose to not use them but they can if they want.


“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.” The Countess of Wessex

Could you link to the interview if it is online, or provide the date or headline such that readers who subscribe to the Times can read it?

Originally Posted by Denville

I thought that someone on this forum had written to BP to ask about this issue and was told that the childern did not have HRH....

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post1984176

[Somebody]

Wow, that's quite a revelation.

However, I'm afraid it is quite possible that Buckingham Palace did not inform Iluvbertie correctly and that indeed because it was only 'an announcement' and no LP, Louise and James actually could claim the HRH if they would wish to do so - as male-line grandchildren.

In that case, the same would probably apply to Archie once Charles is king. He won't use a title but is entitled to do so if he wishes.

Would be interested to read the full interview as well.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

Sophie answered a question when doing an interview for The Sunday Times and she herself mentions that their children can choose to use their HRH style we 18 if they wish. I imagine her understanding of the titles is better than us and she says that they do actually have the titles, they chose to not use them but they can if they want.


“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.” The Countess of Wessex

Interesting interview I think its also highly unlikely that we'll see HRH Princess Louise of Wessex or HRH Prince James of Wessex ,though I could be wrong.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Interesting interview I think its also highly unlikely that we'll see HRH Princess Louise of Wessex or HRH Prince James of Wessex ,though I could be wrong.

If they'd choose to use it, they might wait for the moment that their father becomes duke of Edinburgh.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Wow, that's quite a revelation.

However, I'm afraid it is quite possible that Buckingham Palace did not inform Iluvbertie correctly and that indeed because it was only 'an announcement' and no LP, Louise and James actually could claim the HRH if they would wish to do so - as male-line grandchildren.

In that case, the same would probably apply to Archie once Charles is king. He won't use a title but is entitled to do so if he wishes.

Would be interested to read the full interview as well.

It seems odd htat BP would get it wrong, in a formal reply to someone....

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Somebody

If they'd choose to use it, they might wait for the moment that their father becomes duke of Edinburgh.

That's a possibility,hadn't thought of that.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

However, I'm afraid it is quite possible that Buckingham Palace did not inform Iluvbertie correctly and that indeed because it was only 'an announcement' and no LP, Louise and James actually could claim the HRH if they would wish to do so - as male-line grandchildren.

Or the palace could have reversed its position (as it has done before in relation to title issues), depending on when the interview was given (apparently not recently, since I have seen mentions of such an interview from the Countess of Wessex on blogs/social media before, although the person(s) mentioning it did not provide a date or a link).

Originally Posted by Molly2101

As did I but Sophie has said they do and they are her children and I’m sure she was involved in the decision. If she says they’ve got them but just aren’t using them then they must have them. She’d know more than we do surely?

Yes, provided that the interview was accurately quoted, I would consider the Countess of Wessex, as someone directly involved, to be more knowledgeable than a Buckingham Palace employee.
Would you mind clarifying whether you are quoting directly from the Times or are quoting another source who is citing the Times as their source?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Denville

It seems odd htat BP would get it wrong, in a formal reply to someone....

Odd but not impossible. They messed up with the duke and duchess of Sussex' titles; they messed up with the line of succession on the website (they had the children of lord and lady Nicholas Windsor behind those of his elder sister; they cleaned it up - so the one that is shown on the website only includes all children and grandchildren of the queen, except for Zara's daughters - which in itself makes no sense either), they are confused about Eugenie's title (in the line of succession it is still 'princess Eugenie of York' but they no longer use that for her official activities in the CC but use 'Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank' instead).

So, I am sure it was the understanding of the person who wrote the reply that this was the correct answer but apparently the royal who was involved in this decision has a different interpretation.

[Osipi]

Or there's the possibility that when Louise and James reach the age of 18, they could petition the monarch to reinstate their HRH formally. The Queen made her will known and that is what BP referred to in Iluvbertie's letter. Its within the realm of possibility then too that Charles (or William) could make *his* will known when the time comes.

Just sounds logical to me.

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

Sophie answered a question when doing an interview for The Sunday Times and she herself mentions that their children can choose to use their HRH style we 18 if they wish. I imagine her understanding of the titles is better than us and she says that they do actually have the titles, they chose to not use them but they can if they want.


“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.” The Countess of Wessex

Yes, I just read that interview myself, thanks for posting this.

“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.”

"Can Sophie, Countess of Wessex, steady the royal ship?" by Christina Lamb, The Sunday Times, June 6, 2020.

[Tatiana Maria]

And thank you for providing the source, Gawin.

I still wonder about the alleged earlier interview(s), but it is good to have one verified source.


I can see why the Buckingham Palace staff would have interpreted it differently, as the official announcement in 1999 was phrased as follows:

"The Queen has also decided, with the agreement of The Prince Edward and Miss Rhys-Jones, that any children they might have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl."

In my opinion, "should not use" would more understandably communicate what the Countess tells in the interview than "should not be given". But I suppose "style" in this statement may mean its proper definition of "how one is addressed".

It is also interesting that the Countess apparently believes her children do not need the Queen's permission to use HRH titles, unless the Queen has already given her permission.

[Somebody]

I was hoping someone could provide a little more context for her comment; what question did she answer? What was said prior to this fragment and directly following it?

Based on Molly's post I already found the interview but as I am not a subscriber, it only shows the first few lines.

[Durham]

I wonder why it was mentioned at all . I thought this was a settled matter. Could the countess have made a mistake?

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Somebody

I was hoping someone could provide a little more context for her comment; what question did she answer? What was said prior to this fragment and directly following it?

Based on Molly's post I already found the interview but as I am not a subscriber, it only shows the first few lines.

I have a subscription and am able to read the entire article.

It is written by Christina Lamb, who accompanied the Countess on her tour of South Sudan in March. A week after their return, she also interviewed Sophie at Bagshot Park where the question regarding the children was asked:

"How does she try to give the children a normal life? She laughs as we look around the enormous house. “What’s normal? They go to a regular school [they both attend top independent schools]. They go to friends for sleepovers and parties. At weekends we do lots of dog walking and stay with friends. I guess not everyone’s grandparents live in a castle, but where you are going is not the important part, or who they are. When they are with the Queen, she is their grandmother.

“We try to bring them up with the understanding they are very likely to have to work for a living,” she adds. “Hence we made the decision not to use HRH titles. They have them and can decide to use them from 18, but I think it’s highly unlikely.”"

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Durham

I wonder why it was mentioned at all . I thought this was a settled matter. Could the countess have made a mistake?

Of all people the Countess would know her children’s titles.

Personally I have always doubted that the queens will was as finite as letters patent, but that’s not the way the information given at the time wasn’t correct. We will never know I guess.

[HighGoalHighDreams]

It's an interesting idea that Sophie would necessarily know more about this than the person who answered the letter. Sophie may have studied this a great deal, or it may be of minimal interest to her. The person who answered the letter may have no expertise in this area and may have made a hasty guess, or may be among the foremost experts whose say represents the final authority.

Sarah has referred to her daughters incorrectly as The Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie in at least one interview when asked what exactly was the correct way to refer to them (many years ago). Frankly, I get the sense that they put considerably less thought into these things than those of with a particular interest in it do. It matters little, or not at all, to the realities of their lives.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Of all people the Countess would know her children’s titles.

Well you would think so I suppose. All the same it's very odd having an annoucement all those years ago & now this interview seemingly contradicting it.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Durham

I wonder why it was mentioned at all . I thought this was a settled matter. Could the countess have made a mistake?

It is allegedly not the first time she has said it, though as I stated above I have not seen the earlier interviews and the quoted interview was only published today.

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Of all people the Countess would know her children’s titles.

There are a number of cases in other royal families where a member of the family asserts that they, or their spouse or children, have a title which the monarch or the law says that they do not have. As the Countess of Wessex is by all appearances close to her mother-in-law, I do not believe that has happened here, but it is not impossible for a royal not to "know their children's titles".

Originally Posted by Durham

Well you would think so I suppose. All the same it's very odd having an annoucement all those years ago & now this interview seemingly contradicting it.

"Should not be given the style" can denote "should not be addressed as", so the interview does not actually contradict the announcement if one assumes the language is a bit archaic.