Education of Lady Louise and the Earl of Wessex

[Iluvbertie]

Thank so much - this was very helpful! One more question: what are A and O levels for? To get into university? And what are GCSEs?

We have the SAT or ACT national tests to get into undergraduate college or university and GREs to get into graduate school; but other specific tests for law and medicine.

Thanks again!

Did you read Harry Potter?

Remember OWLs and NEWTs.

A levels, O levels and GCSEs are a bit like that - externally set and marked exams based on a national syllabus. That means if a student studies GCSE History, for instance, every student who studied that course, in the country, will sit the same exam, at the same time and the papers will then be sent to another place to be marked to the same standard across the country.

A levels are the end of school and are a major part of what a student needs to get into university.

Going back for instance:

Charles earned 6 O levels and 2 A levels (History B and French C). Those grades weren't really good enough for Cambridge but he still went there and graduated with a 2.2 degree.

William earned 12 GCSEs and 3 A levels (Geography A, Biology C and History of Art B) Those grades were good enough for St Andrews where he graduated with a 2.1.

Harry earned 11 GCSEs and 2 A levels (Art B and Geography D).

Catherine earned 11 GCSEs and 3 A levels (As and both Maths and Art and a B in English). She also graduated from St Andrews with a 2.1.

Beatrice earned 3 A levels (can't find the number of GCSEs) - A in Drama and Bs in History and Film Studies before going on to graduate from Goldsmiths with a 2.1 in History and History of Ideas.

Eugenie also earned 3 A levels - As in Art and English Literature as well as a B in History of Art. She then graduated with a 2.1 from Newcastle University in English Literature and History of Art.

Diana famously didn't get any O levels even though she tried twice.

Louise is currently studying for her A levels which she will sit next year, I believe. From there she may take a gap year before university. Her father earned three A levels - 1 C and 2 Ds. Again these grades weren't good enough for Cambridge but he went there anyway and graduated with a 2.2 in History.

 

[Sunnystar]

Did you read Harry Potter?

Remember OWLs and NEWTs.

A levels, O levels and GCSEs are a bit like that - externally set and marked exams based on a national syllabus. That means if a student studies GCSE History, for instance, every student who studied that course, in the country, will sit the same exam, at the same time and the papers will then be sent to another place to be marked to the same standard across the country.

A levels are the end of school and are a major part of what a student needs to get into university.

Going back for instance:

Charles earned 6 O levels and 2 A levels (History B and French C). Those grades weren't really good enough for Cambridge but he still went there and graduated with a 2.2 degree.

William earned 12 GCSEs and 3 A levels (Geography A, Biology C and History of Art B) Those grades were good enough for St Andrews where he graduated with a 2.1.

Harry earned 11 GCSEs and 2 A levels (Art B and Geography D).

Catherine earned 11 GCSEs and 3 A levels (As and both Maths and Art and a B in English). She also graduated from St Andrews with a 2.1.

Beatrice earned 3 A levels (can't find the number of GCSEs) - A in Drama and Bs in History and Film Studies before going on to graduate from Goldsmiths with a 2.1 in History and History of Ideas.

Eugenie also earned 3 A levels - As in Art and English Literature as well as a B in History of Art. She then graduated with a 2.1 from Newcastle University in English Literature and History of Art.

Diana famously didn't get any O levels even though she tried twice.

Louise is currently studying for her A levels which she will sit next year, I believe. From there she may take a gap year before university. Her father earned three A levels - 1 C and 2 Ds. Again these grades weren't good enough for Cambridge but he went there anyway and graduated with a 2.2 in History.

What does 2.1 and 2.2 mean? In the US when you graduate from university you generally earn a B.A. (Bachelor of Arts) or B.S. (Bachelor of Science). Some universities will note if you graduate from an Honors school/program, most will note if you graduate 'cum laude' (with honor), 'summa cum laude' (with great honor), or 'magna cum laude' (with highest honor). Does 2.1 or 2.2 equate to those terms?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I will need to leave 2.1 and 2.2 to a Brit.

Here in Australia we start with a Bachelor's degree.

The 2.1 and 2.2 or 1st/3rds are only awarded to those who do the extra year for an Honours Degree. I didn't do that and went straight from my BA to MA and M.Ed and now Ph.D (may not finish but if I do it will be a couple more years).

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

What does 2.1 and 2.2 mean? In the US when you graduate from university you generally earn a B.A. (Bachelor of Arts) or B.S. (Bachelor of Science). Some universities will note if you graduate from an Honors school/program, most will note if you graduate 'cum laude' (with honor), 'summa cum laude' (with great honor), or 'magna cum laude' (with highest honor). Does 2.1 or 2.2 equate to those terms?

In the UK (and Australian systems), honours levels are classified as 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Under 2nd class honours, there is level 1 and level 2. Level 1 is considered a credit grade (65-74%) and level 2 is pass level (60-65%).

 

[muriel]

Thank so much - this was very helpful! One more question: what are A and O levels for? To get into university? And what are GCSEs?

We have the SAT or ACT national tests to get into undergraduate college or university and GREs to get into graduate school; but other specific tests for law and medicine.

Thanks again!

The school leaving exam, at age 18, which is a key input into the university admissions process is the A-levels. You are required to take 3 A levels, though a number of children take 4 and use the best 3 for their grades.

The GSCEs are taken at the end of Year 11, when you are 16. The predecessor to these were the O levels. These exams are not usually a major input into your university admission process, but mark the end of your broad education covering 10-11 subjects. Somebody close to me recently did his, and had exams in Maths, English Literature, English Language, Physics, Chem, Biology, History, Ancient History, Product Design, French and Latin.

 

[Molly2101]

He's 13 now, and boys usually enter public school at 13, rather than 11 for state/private secondary schools, so I would assume he's in his last year and will be starting his new school, whichever one it is, in September.

His current school is a “feeder” school for Wellington College so my guess would be that’s where he is going in September. I can’t see him attending Eton like his older cousins or being sent to boarding school like his oldest cousin Peter.

 

[Denville]

It confuses me too. I think it means it is open to the public if they can pay the fee. Is this correct?

Yea roughly speaking, and a public shcool has a board of governors. (there are scholarships for clever kids).

 

[Iluvbertie]

His current school is a “feeder” school for Wellington College so my guess would be that’s where he is going in September. I can’t see him attending Eton like his older cousins or being sent to boarding school like his oldest cousin Peter.

William and Harry also boarded. They were sent to boarding school when they were aged 8 - as was Edward, Andrew and Charles.

Zara also boarded at Gordonstoun and Eugenie at Marlborough - a few years behind Catherine.

Of the older cousins the only one who didn't board in high school was Beatrice due to going to St George's at Ascot.

Wellington College takes day pupils and is in Berkshire so he may very well attend there. Eton is full boarding only - no day pupils.

 

[Denville]

yes nearly all royal kids boarded. But I think that now there may be a compromise of them being weekly boarders so that thier parents are not needed to be there all the time, but the children are not away form home for months on end.

 

[Alison H]

I will need to leave 2.1 and 2.2 to a Brit.

Here in Australia we start with a Bachelor's degree.

The 2.1 and 2.2 or 1st/3rds are only awarded to those who do the extra year for an Honours Degree. I didn't do that and went straight from my BA to MA and M.Ed and now Ph.D (may not finish but if I do it will be a couple more years).

We start with a Bachelor's degree - usually either BA (Bachelor of Arts) or BSc (Bachelor of Sciences). You do a 3 year course and then get a degree. It is possible just to get a pass, but that's unusual - the vast majority of people get an honours degree, which can be a 1st, a 2.1 and 2.2 or a 3, i.e. first class honours, third class honours, etc. 2.1 and 2.2 are upper second class honours and lower second class honours.

Just to confuse the issue, it's different in Scotland, where you study for 4 years and then get an MA/MSc (Master of Arts/Sciences), which would require an additional course in England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

William, Kate, Beatrice and Eugenie have all got 2.1 degrees. I'm not sure about Peter and Zara.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

In the UK (and Australian systems), honours levels are classified as 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Under 2nd class honours, there is level 1 and level 2. Level 1 is considered a credit grade (65-74%) and level 2 is pass level (60-65%).

Thanks so much! But I still don’t get what a 2.1 or 2.2 means? What is the first 2? Is the second 2 “first or second level”?

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

The school leaving exam, at age 18, which is a key input into the university admissions process is the A-levels. You are required to take 3 A levels, though a number of children take 4 and use the best 3 for their grades.

The GSCEs are taken at the end of Year 11, when you are 16. The predecessor to these were the O levels. These exams are not usually a major input into your university admission process, but mark the end of your broad education covering 10-11 subjects. Somebody close to me recently did his, and had exams in Maths, English Literature, English Language, Physics, Chem, Biology, History, Ancient History, Product Design, French and Latin.

Wow! In our state we have EOG’s (end of grade) beginning in 3rd Grade and EOC’s (end of course) given for high school courses needed for 12th grade high school graduation. Universities in the US look at a combination of SAT/ACT national test scores and GPA (grade point average) which comes from course grades of which EOC’s are a part.

You don’t realize how complex these systems are until you start talking about them!

 

[Heavs]

Thanks so much! But I still don’t get what a 2.1 or 2.2 means? What is the first 2? Is the second 2 “first or second level”?

The 2nd honours degree classification is split into two parts. So a 2:1 (Two One) is better than a 2:2. (Two Two)

2:2 is often considered the minimum qualification when applying for graduate jobs. And is sometimes known as a Desmond (Tutu).

 

[Denville]

Thanks so much! But I still don’t get what a 2.1 or 2.2 means? What is the first 2? Is the second 2 “first or second level”?

the first 2 means a second class honour.. the second 1 or 2 means level one, or level 2.... A 2:1 is better than a 2:2

 

[Alison H]

It's like upper second honours or lower second honours. I've got no idea why it isn't just 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, rather than splitting second class into two ... I'm sure there's some reason which made a huge amount of sense back in the day!

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

William and Harry also boarded. They were sent to boarding school when they were aged 8 - as was Edward, Andrew and Charles.

Zara also boarded at Gordonstoun and Eugenie at Marlborough - a few years behind Catherine.

Of the older cousins the only one who didn't board in high school was Beatrice due to going to St George's at Ascot.

Wellington College takes day pupils and is in Berkshire so he may very well attend there. Eton is full boarding only - no day pupils.

So I am assuming that it is only the wealthy who board their kids? I cannot imagine sending an 8 year old away from home to go to school!

 

[Denville]

It's like upper second honours or lower second honours. I've got no idea why it isn't just 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, rather than splitting second class into two ... I'm sure there's some reason which made a huge amount of sense back in the day!

well very few got a first, very few got a fourth? (or a third) so the bulk would be 2nd class.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

The 2nd honours degree classification is split into two parts. So a 2:1 (Two One) is better than a 2:2. (Two Two)

2:2 is often considered the minimum qualification when applying for graduate jobs. And is sometimes known as a Desmond (Tutu).

So is there a 1.1 or a 1.2 for first class honor?

 

[Denville]

So I am assuming that it is only the wealthy who board their kids? I cannot imagine sending an 8 year old away from home to go to school!

Only the wealthy can afford boarding school..

 

[Heavs]

So I am assuming that it is only the wealthy who board their kids? I cannot imagine sending an 8 year old away from home to go to school!

The stereotype is the upper class who send their kids to boarding school from 7 years old. But in my experience it's not quite like that any more. With a lot of families where both parents work there are a lot of middle class families who take advantage of weekly or flexi boarding. Of course you have to be able to afford the fees.

There are about 40 state boarding schools in the UK.

 

[Erin9]

The 2nd honours degree classification is split into two parts. So a 2:1 (Two One) is better than a 2:2. (Two Two)



2:2 is often considered the minimum qualification when applying for graduate jobs. And is sometimes known as a Desmond (Tutu).

So if you graduated from university with 3.1 or 3.2 that wouldn’t do you much good?

Is graduating with a 1.1 or 1.2 pretty rare?

 

[Denville]

As far as I know there's only one class of first, not 1:1 etc. and the same with third class.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So if you graduated from university with 3.1 or 3.2 that wouldn’t do you much good?

Is graduating with a 1.1 or 1.2 pretty rare?

A first is just a first and a third is just a third.

Only the seconds are divided into a 2.1 and 2.2.

There are four levels - 1st, 2.1, 2.2 and 3rd.

How they are awarded can vary by university but you do want a 1st or 2.1 for preference - which the younger royals all earned.

One thing to remember is that standards in the UK, as in many other countries, have dropped to allow more students to qualify to go to university.

 

[Erin9]

A first is just a first and a third is just a third.



Only the seconds are divided into a 2.1 and 2.2.



There are four levels - 1st, 2.1, 2.2 and 3rd.



How they are awarded can vary by university but you do want a 1st or 2.1 for preference - which the younger royals all earned.



One thing to remember is that standards in the UK, as in many other countries, have dropped to allow more students to qualify to go to university.

Thank you. That’s very helpful.

Good point about standards going down in general.

 

[Kaye1850]

This has been very illuminating ~ thanks to all who took time to explain!

 

[Somebody]

What are the percentages in each of the categories (because that is the best way to compare grading systems)?

 

[Prinsara]

Getting a first at university is a major mark of distinction. More than any kind of cum laude, I think. (Dependent, of course, on the university.)

And getting a third is basically embarrassing.

 

[Erin9]

I have a question about A levels.

I may be confused, but this was my understanding:

They’re standard tests that are used heavily for college entrance. You’re required to take 3, but some kids take 4 so they can use the best of the 3 grades.

So….I thought I read Harry only had 2 A levels with grades of a B and D- can’t recall the subjects. Didn’t he have to take 3 A levels? Or have standards changed? Or is that 3 are required to go to university?

Or I’m just lost. Lol

 

[Prinsara]

I have a question about A levels.

I may be confused, but this was my understanding:

They’re standard tests that are used heavily for college entrance. You’re required to take 3, but some kids take 4 so they can use the best of the 3 grades.

So….I thought I read Harry only had 2 A levels with grades of a B and D- can’t recall the subjects. Didn’t he have to take 3 A levels? Or have standards changed? Or is that 3 are required to go to university?

Or I’m just lost. Lol

I don't know what Sandhurst requires in the way of A-levels, but Harry didn't go to university. Getting a D is also pretty embarrassing, so it's like he only really had one. (Going back, his Uncle Edward didn't do much better.)

 

[Erin9]

I don't know what Sandhurst requires in the way of A-levels, but Harry didn't go to university. Getting a D is also pretty embarrassing, so it's like he only really had one. (Going back, his Uncle Edward didn't do much better.)

I guess what I’m wondering is- could Harry not have gone to university at all with only 2 A levels? Agreed a D is a pretty bad grade so that couldn’t have been helpful really. He nearly failed.

I know he didn’t go to university, but was it literally not an option based on performance?

I don’t want to go OT- I’m just trying to generally understand how A levels work. And this seems to be a way to clarify it.