Education of Lady Louise and the Earl of Wessex

[HereditaryPrincess]

I meant to ask why none of them seem interested in Math-oriented subjects. Prince William took Biology though, which at least is a natural science.

In my family, we're typically not the best at maths (most of us, to be brutally honest, aren't the sharpest tools in the box in general!) and are better at humanities or creative subjects. Sometimes it's hereditary - maybe this is also the case for the Windsors?

 

[AC21091968]

In my family, we're typically not the best at maths (most of us, to be brutally honest, aren't the sharpest tools in the box in general!) and are better at humanities or creative subjects. Sometimes it's hereditary - maybe this is also the case for the Windsors?

I remember reading The King's Speech by Mark Logue and Peter Conradi, George VI was terrible at Maths. Here is the extract I found online

"Bertie's problems were compounded by his dismal academic performance. Osborne was essentially a technical school, concentrating on maths, navigation, science and engineering. Although good at practical side of engineering and seamanship, he was a disaster at mathematics, typically coming bottom of the class or close to it"​

Online version of the book
https://www.google.com.au/books/edi...jX18aQOLW6EC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

The future King was sent to the Royal Navy College at Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight. Like George V, Bertie was destined for the Royal Navy (without any choice, I presumed). I am glad that young Royals now are free to choose what subjects they want to study and careers they want to pursue.

 

[Curryong]

I don't think either of Louise's parents showed any interest in mathematical subjects. I remember that Edward read History at Cambridge after Gordonstoun but there was quite a lot of criticism at the time of his admission because his A-levels were far below what was usually demanded at Oxbridge institutions.

Sophie left school to undertake a secretarial course and then went on to work in PR so I presume she didn't have a huge ability in the mathematics and sciences area either.

I agree with HereditaryPrincess that interest in these things tends to run in families. In mine we all tend to be arty and creative but maths leads most of us cold.

What is quite surprising though is that Prince Philip excelled as a naval officer, which included mathematics and science but Charles, who followed him into the RN, struggled as a schoolboy and cadet with those subjects. Andrew (as a naval officer) may have been capable and developed an interest in technology, but Anne and Edward don't seem to have been interested. So it's perhaps not surprising that Louise may well go in for an Arts degree at University.

 

[AC21091968]

As some posters have pointed out, James is currently attending Eagle House School (a coeducational preparatory school, near Sandhurst in Berkshire), according to a Sunday Times interview with the Countess of Wessex (published on 6th June). I assume he is in his final year at Eagle House School, before starting secondary school next year (in September).

Unfortunately, the article is behind a pay wall
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-sophie-countess-of-wessex-steady-the-royal-ship-qngnxsdcg

I did originally find this information on Wikipedia, but with a citation to the Sunday Times article.

 

[Claire]

I don't think either of Louise's parents showed any interest in mathematical subjects. I remember that Edward read History at Cambridge after Gordonstoun but there was quite a lot of criticism at the time of his admission because his A-levels were far below what was usually demanded at Oxbridge institutions.

Sophie left school to undertake a secretarial course and then went on to work in PR so I presume she didn't have a huge ability in the mathematics and sciences area either.

I agree with HereditaryPrincess that interest in these things tends to run in families. In mine we all tend to be arty and creative but maths leads most of us cold.

What is quite surprising though is that Prince Philip excelled as a naval officer, which included mathematics and science but Charles, who followed him into the RN, struggled as a schoolboy and cadet with those subjects. Andrew (as a naval officer) may have been capable and developed an interest in technology, but Anne and Edward don't seem to have been interested. So it's perhaps not surprising that Louise may well go in for an Arts degree at University.

I was told that Edward's results were incorrectly published in the press - and the palace did not correct the tabloid as it is would have made more of the story then it was worth.
However in really the only biography on Edward, by Ingrid Steward Prince Philip wanted Edward to explore possible employment in Accountancy or Engineering after he left the Marines. Seems rather odd for someone with no aptitude in figures for his father to want this. Might just have been wishful thinking on his father's side. Another thing that really doesn't add up is that Edward studied further in business after leaving the Marines which would have included Accounting subjects.

 

[Claire]

As the GCSE and A-levels will not go ahead in 2021 - I can only share my sorrow with Lady Louise and indeed the whole class of 2020 and 2021. Sorry don't think that assignment assessment does the trick
I do wonder if she will be taken an equivalent examination online or a longer gap year to wait it out. Either way I would be guttered if this has happened in my senior year.

 

[AC21091968]

I have a close family member who did the High School Certificate (HSC) and hence finished secondary school in 2020 (NSW, Australia). His school got shut down at April before re-opened in July and August (when Term 3 starts). Luckily, his school was able to facilitate the HSC exams and he was able to take the exams whilst the COVID-19 was zero at the time. It's only days before the results were released when the cases started again.

I do sympathise with those who are affected by lockdown, especially when the physical/paper exams are cancelled. It's almost like getting used to a new medium or approach in online exams. It's not just switching from writing to typing, but the questions might be different (similar to how open book vs. close book).

Is Lady Louise doing her A-level this year, so a year after doing GCSE?

 

[Claire]

Yep. That is what Sophie and Louise confirmed.

I think it has been confirmed in England that they will be doing assessment by the school now. I wonder if kids can write Scottish Education board ? Is that still a thing?

 

[muriel]

I think it has been confirmed in England that they will be doing assessment by the school now. I wonder if kids can write Scottish Education board ? Is that still a thing?

I do not believe it has been confirmed at this stage that GCSE and A levels will be awarded on the basis of assessments by school. All the government has said so far is that the exams will not go ahead in the expected format. How things will develop will need to be seen.

 

[Heavs]

I think it's for the best that they let people know now so that there might be some hope of figuring out a reasonable system by May/June. It's definitely not ideal but neither is any of this, it just can't be helped.

She's at a good school, they'll figure something out for their girls.

 

[AC21091968]

The Earl of Wessex did an interview with Sky News on the importance of non-academic schemes including the Duke of Edinburgh (DofE) award during COVID-19 restriction. This is the same interview where he said that The Duke of Edinburgh was "a lot better" and "looking forward to getting out"

At one point of the interview he mentioned about Lady Louise and Viscount Severn's homeschooling, which has been "chalk and cheese". He also mentioned about Lady Louise's GCSE being affected and how she prefer learning face-to-face with teachers and fellow students. Viscount Severn, however enjoys online learning at home. The Earl of Wessex also mentioned how lucky his family are, despite some struggles and frustration.

The earl who has two teenage children, Louise who is 17 and James who is 13, said they had been "chalk and cheese" when it came to home-schooling.

He said "The eldest one Louise, she had her GCSEs interrupted last year, so we went through that whole pain of just having all of that suddenly taken away and so she sort of struggles a bit with the online learning because she'd much prefer to be with everyone…

"My younger one frankly thinks being at home and online is fantastic.

"I have to say half term came at just the right time because it was very interesting the frustrations that were beginning to show - and I reckon we weren't the only family to have experienced that.

"I count our blessings that we're lucky where we are."

Prince's plea to remember vital non-academic schemes in rush to catch-up schooling
The earl also spoke about the challenges of home schooling his two teenagers, saying they reacted to it "like chalk and cheese".
https://news.sky.com/story/princes-...chemes-in-rush-to-catch-up-schooling-12227797

 

[Mbruno]

As the GCSE and A-levels will not go ahead in 2021 - I can only share my sorrow with Lady Louise and indeed the whole class of 2020 and 2021. Sorry don't think that assignment assessment does the trick
I do wonder if she will be taken an equivalent examination online or a longer gap year to wait it out. Either way I would be guttered if this has happened in my senior year.

I read on the BBC site that a mix of mock exams, coursework and essays will be used to decide the final A-level or GCSE grades.


Personally I prefer external exams because they tend to be more objective and standardized (hence, theoretically fairer) than internal coursework assessment,and allow grades to be comparable across different schools. However, there are some advanced countries with excellent school systems, e.g. Canada, where final grades are based mostly on internal school assessment only and, nonetheless, students still go to university and do well there. I think Alberta is the only province in Canada that still has external provincial exams for final year (Grade 12) students and they count now for only 30 % of the final grade. British Columbia used to have provincial exams too, but I read they have been discontinued, except perhaps for Grade 12 English, but I am not sure. The Canadian posters may comment further.


In the US, external exams aren't normally part of final High School grades either, although some states may require students to take basic state literacy and numeracy tests as a requirement for graduation. As part of university (in US lingo, "college") entrance requirements, many students take external tests/exams, for example SATs and AP exams, but those are administered by private, nonprofit organizations like ETS or the College Board, rather than school districts or the states, and normally do not count for school grades.


I guess in-school coursework assessment might "do the trick" as you put it in countries where the school system is relatively homogeneous and quality doesn't change too much from school to school. That may be the case in Canada for example (I don't know), but certainly not in the US or the UK, hence the need for external exams/ standardized tests. Having said that, exam-based assessment also has shortcomings, mostly related to "coaching" and different levels of access to it. Perhaps a mix of coursework and external exams with different weights would be the best model. I think that is what is done in Australia, and I would appreciate comments from the Australian posters too.

 

[poppy7]

I read on the BBC site that a mix of mock exams, coursework and essays will be used to decide the final A-level or GCSE grades.


Personally I prefer external exams because they tend to be more objective and standardized (hence, theoretically fairer) than internal coursework assessment,and allow grades to be comparable across different schools. However, there are some advanced countries with excellent school systems, e.g. Canada, where final grades are based mostly on internal school assessment only and, nonetheless, students still go to university and do well there. I think Alberta is the only province in Canada that still has external provincial exams for final year (Grade 12) students and they count now for only 30 % of the final grade. British Columbia used to have provincial exams too, but I read they have been discontinued, except perhaps for Grade 12 English, but I am not sure. The Canadian posters may comment further.


In the US, external exams aren't normally part of final High School grades either, although some states may require students to take basic state literacy and numeracy tests as a requirement for graduation. As part of university (in US lingo, "college") entrance requirements, many students take external tests/exams, for example SATs and AP exams, but those are administered by private, nonprofit organizations like ETS or the College Board, rather than school districts or the states, and normally do not count for school grades.


I guess in-school coursework assessment might "do the trick" as you put it in countries where the school system is relatively homogeneous and quality doesn't change too much from school to school. That may be the case in Canada for example (I don't know), but certainly not in the US or the UK, hence the need for external exams/ standardized tests. Having said that, exam-based assessment also has shortcomings, mostly related to "coaching" and different levels of access to it. Perhaps a mix of coursework and external exams with different weights would be the best model. I think that is what is done in Australia, and I would appreciate comments from the Australian posters too.

I think that is a rather simplistic and reductionist way of looking at the British education system. But then how are people to know when they don't work in an system.

Course work is, and has always been standardised between school groups to allow for childrens work to be equated with others. National programmes for writing exist where childrens work is scanned and assessed by people from all over the country so you can see if you are too harsh or too lenient.

Grading is hemmed in by previous marking, attainment and assessment. The only reason that anyone would be disadvantaged by the lack of exams is if they never did anything and somehow always managed to play blinders in the exam.

 

[Claire]

I wonder if we will be informed of the plans for Louise's gap year or indeed university plans? I expect that we will get another family pic in June.

 

[Saz83]

Lady Louise is currently in her first year of A-levels and so she would still have another year to go after this one.

 

[Claire]

As some posters have pointed out, James is currently attending Eagle House School (a coeducational preparatory school, near Sandhurst in Berkshire), according to a Sunday Times interview with the Countess of Wessex (published on 6th June). I assume he is in his final year at Eagle House School, before starting secondary school next year (in September).

Unfortunately, the article is behind a pay wall
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-sophie-countess-of-wessex-steady-the-royal-ship-qngnxsdcg

I did originally find this information on Wikipedia, but with a citation to the Sunday Times article.

In todays interview on BBC3 - Sophie confirmed that James is at Eagle House, but she didn't say if it was his final year.

 

[Heavs]

Yes. They just did an engagement at Eagle House, opening a new block which I assume was good fun for everyone involved.

 

[Alison H]

He's 13 now, and boys usually enter public school at 13, rather than 11 for state/private secondary schools, so I would assume he's in his last year and will be starting his new school, whichever one it is, in September.

 

[Mbruno]

He's 13 now, and boys usually enter public school at 13, rather than 11 for state/private secondary schools, so I would assume he's in his last year and will be starting his new school, whichever one it is, in September.

Sorry, but sometimes I get confused with British education terminology. If "public school" actually means a fee-paying school and state school means a public school in US/Canada terminology, what is exactly a "private secondary school" and how does it differ from a British "public school"?

 

[Heavs]

Sorry, but sometimes I get confused with British education terminology. If "public school" actually means a fee-paying school and state school means a public school in US/Canada terminology, what is exactly a "private secondary school" and how does it differ from a British "public school"?

The lines are often blurred for people in the UK as well.

A government funded school is a State School which is what public schools are in the US. These are non fee paying obviously.

There are hundreds of private (feepaying) schools in the UK but those aren't all considered "public schools".

A public school in the UK is fee paying school that is usually old, famous, associated with rich/powerful people (although that's not always true). There are some like Eton and Harrow etc that everyone knows and then there are more "minor public schools". They're often boarding schools or have a high percentage of students that board.

Many of the all boys schools (or those that used to be all boys but are now co-ed) start only at age 13. The all Girls version will start at 11 but have a large intake at 13 as well.

A public school could also be called a private school, fee paying school, Independent School as well. It depends on who's talking.

A "non public school" private school would be a local fee paying/Independent school that didn't necessarily have boarders and wasn't really known outside the area and mostly accepts the biggest intake at 11 years old even if it's an all boys school.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Sorry, but sometimes I get confused with British education terminology. If "public school" actually means a fee-paying school and state school means a public school in US/Canada terminology, what is exactly a "private secondary school" and how does it differ from a British "public school"?

Yes, I would so appreciate it if someone would explain the British schooling system. For those not familiar with the US, we have free public education:

Elementary:
K - kindergarten
1-5 grades

Middle school:
6-8

High School:
9-12

And of course we have lots of (not free) private schools in K-12. As well as lots of home schoolers.

Then we have a system of (not free) community colleges (trade certificate, 2 year Associate’s degree and others), four year colleges and universities leading to some sort of bachelor’s degree, then professional schools (law, medicine, theology, for example) as well as master’s levels in things like speech pathology, counseling, and Ph.D.’s in all sorts of things.

Thanks in advance for explaining- I get so confused by “ A levels in ....”. Our system is just different

 

[Heavs]

Nursery: From a few weeks old (if necessary) to 4/5.

4/5 -11 is Primary school. This is called Reception to Year 6.

This stage of schooling can also be called Preparatory (Prep) school which is fee paying (private/independent).

Many Prep Schools can also go up to 13 (as James's school Eagle House does). It is supposed to be preparing you for your public school. Eagle House is considered a feeder prep school for Wellington just as Ludgrove where William and Harry went to is a feeder for Eton. But you don't *have* to go to these specific schools.

Some private schools have pre prep (Reception to Year 2) and prep departments as part of the larger school up to 18. So you can theoretically say in one school your entire live until 18.

Secondary school goes from 11-16 years old. Or 11-18. This is Year 7-11 And is called that both for private schools (not public) and state schools. This is where people take GCSEs at age 16 (Year 11)

6th Form goes from 16-18. It can also be called Year 12 and 13. This is when A Levels happen.

It is often a completely different department in many schools with it's own block or section of campus. And can even be a separate "6th Form College" where you leave one school and start another for two years. This is especially true of state schools but there are so fee paying/private 6th Form colleges as well. This is the type of school that Princess Elisabeth attended in Wales and Princess Leonore is joining.

Some public/private schools don't differentiate as much between 6th Form and 11-16 as others.

Some public schools don't use the year 7-13 numbering system and go from Upper 3rd (11 years old) or Upper 4 (13 YO) to Upper 6th. That system is where the term 6th Form comes from but it seems to have stayed on as a concept after many schools when with the State School labelling Reception to year 13.

Most universities in England are 3 years with some four years for languages or some sciences/engineering for undergrad.

Universities in Scotland are often 4 year undergrad degrees.

I don't think we have the differentiation between public/private universities as much as there is in the US and nothing like "in state tuition". There are some community college equivalents but it's not quite the same, or so I'm lead to believe.

Oh, and the exact rules and regulations are different in different parts of the UK. In Scotland they take Highers, not A Levels and Standard Grades not GCSEs.

I'm not sure I'm uncomplicating things!

 

[Alison H]

It is a bit confusing!


The vast majority of children attend a nursery up to the age of 4, then a primary school up to the age of 11, then a secondary school up to the age of 18. GCSE exams (formerly O levels) are taken at 16 and A levels at 18, except in Scotland where Highers are taken at 17. Schools can be either state schools (i.e. state-funded schools) or private (independent, fee-paying) schools. Some private primary schools are called prep schools. A lot of private secondary schools admit pupils by entrance exams, which are usually a lot harder than the "common entrance exam" used by public schools!


For wealthy/upper class people, boys may attend a pre-prep school until the age of 7, then a prep school up to the age of 13, then a public school such as Eton, Harrow or Winchester - the very prestigious schools, also independent and fee-paying. It looks as if James is in this system, as he's still at his prep school even though he's now 13.

I wonder which public school they've got in mind for him. We don't know that much about him, but he seems like a fairly quiet lad, so I'm not sure Gordonstoun would suit him.

 

[Heavs]

It looks as if James is in this system, as he's still at his prep school even though he's now 13.

I wonder which public school they've got in mind for him. We don't know that much about him, but he seems like a fairly quiet lad, so I'm not sure Gordonstoun would suit him.

I have assumed Wellington. But only because Eagle House is a feeder school for it and it's fairly close by allowing him to potentially flexi board as necessary if they don't want him to be a full time boarder. Eton is also reasonably close by but doesn't really offer flexi boarding (where kids board as necessary whilst their parents are working) or weekly boarding. Of course we have no idea what they're looking for in a school for him so it's all guess work.

I'd be surprised if he went to Gordonstoun but you never know.

 

[Erin9]

Thank you both! I get confused too. This has been very helpful.

 

[Susan D]

St. Mary's Ascot is or was a Roman Catholic school. Therefore, is Lady Louise actually attending St. George's Ascot (where Princess Beatrice of York may have gone) or Heathfield where Princess Alexandra of Kent went? Is it that the information is wrong so as to put the public off in order to give Lady Louise a break?

 

[Heavs]

St. Mary's Ascot is or was a Roman Catholic school. Therefore, is Lady Louise actually attending St. George's Ascot (where Princess Beatrice of York may have gone) or Heathfield where Princess Alexandra of Kent went? Is it that the information is wrong so as to put the public off in order to give Lady Louise a break?

No, I very much doubt it. If it was many decades ago then no, Lady Louise would be Princess Louise and unlikely to attend an RC school.

There's no "break" needed for Louise, thankfully, that they have to obfuscate which school she's at. If she had gone to St. George's where her cousin went I'm sure we'd know.

St. Mary's is RC and it does have that influence in it's teaching but many, many parents send their daughters their because it's considered a great school with a lot of pastoral emphasis.

To be honest you wouldn't find that much difference *on the surface* between mid-high church Anglican and Roman Catholic services. If that was a consideration for them.

If they sent their son to Ampleforth etc that might raise more eye brows. But St Mary's near where they live, no.

 

[ladyjolene]

It confuses me too. I think it means it is open to the public if they can pay the fee. Is this correct?

 

[MaryVirginia]

Thank you all for explaining the educational system in England An interesting and helpful discussion!

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Nursery: From a few weeks old (if necessary) to 4/5.

4/5 -11 is Primary school. This is called Reception to Year 6.

This stage of schooling can also be called Preparatory (Prep) school which is fee paying (private/independent).

Many Prep Schools can also go up to 13 (as James's school Eagle House does). It is supposed to be preparing you for your public school. Eagle House is considered a feeder prep school for Wellington just as Ludgrove where William and Harry went to is a feeder for Eton. But you don't *have* to go to these specific schools.

Some private schools have pre prep (Reception to Year 2) and prep departments as part of the larger school up to 18. So you can theoretically say in one school your entire live until 18.

Secondary school goes from 11-16 years old. Or 11-18. This is Year 7-11 And is called that both for private schools (not public) and state schools. This is where people take GCSEs at age 16 (Year 11)

6th Form goes from 16-18. It can also be called Year 12 and 13. This is when A Levels happen.

It is often a completely different department in many schools with it's own block or section of campus. And can even be a separate "6th Form College" where you leave one school and start another for two years. This is especially true of state schools but there are so fee paying/private 6th Form colleges as well. This is the type of school that Princess Elisabeth attended in Wales and Princess Leonore is joining.

Some public/private schools don't differentiate as much between 6th Form and 11-16 as others.

Some public schools don't use the year 7-13 numbering system and go from Upper 3rd (11 years old) or Upper 4 (13 YO) to Upper 6th. That system is where the term 6th Form comes from but it seems to have stayed on as a concept after many schools when with the State School labelling Reception to year 13.

Most universities in England are 3 years with some four years for languages or some sciences/engineering for undergrad.

Universities in Scotland are often 4 year undergrad degrees.

I don't think we have the differentiation between public/private universities as much as there is in the US and nothing like "in state tuition". There are some community college equivalents but it's not quite the same, or so I'm lead to believe.

Oh, and the exact rules and regulations are different in different parts of the UK. In Scotland they take Highers, not A Levels and Standard Grades not GCSEs.

I'm not sure I'm uncomplicating things!

Thank so much - this was very helpful! One more question: what are A and O levels for? To get into university? And what are GCSEs?

We have the SAT or ACT national tests to get into undergraduate college or university and GREs to get into graduate school; but other specific tests for law and medicine.

Thanks again!