Education of Lady Louise and the Earl of Wessex

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I guess what I’m wondering is- could Harry not have gone to university at all with only 2 A levels? Agreed a D is a pretty bad grade so that couldn’t have been helpful really. He nearly failed.

I know he didn’t go to university, but was it literally not an option based on performance?

I don’t want to go OT- I’m just trying to generally understand how A levels work. And this seems to be a way to clarify it.

No, I don't think there is a UK university that will admit you with only two A-levels, especially with one at D. Hopefully Louise and James will live up to some of their other cousins.

Do I take it Sophie didn't go to university, either, then?

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I guess what I’m wondering is- could Harry not have gone to university at all with only 2 A levels? Agreed a D is a pretty bad grade so that couldn’t have been helpful really. He nearly failed.

I know he didn’t go to university, but was it literally not an option based on performance?

I don’t want to go OT- I’m just trying to generally understand how A levels work. And this seems to be a way to clarify it.

Edward went to University, wiht Harry I dont think he had the interest in it.

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I have a question about A levels.

I may be confused, but this was my understanding:

They’re standard tests that are used heavily for college entrance. You’re required to take 3, but some kids take 4 so they can use the best of the 3 grades.

So….I thought I read Harry only had 2 A levels with grades of a B and D- can’t recall the subjects. Didn’t he have to take 3 A levels? Or have standards changed? Or is that 3 are required to go to university?

Or I’m just lost. Lol

I didn't get into it before but it's changed quite a bit in the last 20 years. It used to be just two years of study and then you take the exams, along with coursework and those determine further training, university or jobs.

Around 2004 the government introduced AS levels to give someone a qualification if they only did 1 year of 6th form.

You then went on to A2 level in your final year of school.

So I took 5 AS levels and 4 A2s to go to university.


Nowadays you take exams after 1 year but any subjects you carry on to your "full A Level" you don't get an AS grade for.

So if I did it now I would have 1 AS level and 4 A levels.

These days I think most people have gone to university before Sandhurst. The website stresses that they look for much more than academic achievement. Some still do go straight from school and they look for 72 UCAS points which are made up of GCSE results and A level results. Harry getting in with his grades did raise a few eyebrows at the time but the BRF and Army said he followed the selection process.

He would not have been able to go to university or at least a good university on his grades alone (but neither would his father or Uncle have gone to Cambridge on their grades if they were ordinary people). Then of course there was the cheating scandal. But he seems to have done well at Sandhurst.

The rest of the young royals and I'm sure Louise as well went to unis that were mostly within keeping for their A level results.

[Alison H]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I have a question about A levels.

I may be confused, but this was my understanding:

They’re standard tests that are used heavily for college entrance. You’re required to take 3, but some kids take 4 so they can use the best of the 3 grades.

So….I thought I read Harry only had 2 A levels with grades of a B and D- can’t recall the subjects. Didn’t he have to take 3 A levels? Or have standards changed? Or is that 3 are required to go to university?

Or I’m just lost. Lol

There's no actual legal requirement to take a specific number, but the norm is 3 or 4. In my day, nearly everyone took 3 ordinary subjects, plus "General Studies" which you didn't actually have to study for.

The minimum number of A-levels for university entrance is 2. However, in practice you would be extremely unlikely to be offered a place on a course with fewer than 3, as a school leaver. Sandhurst will also take you with 2 A-levels at a certain minimum grade level. Whether Harry Smith or Harry Bloggs, as opposed to Harry Wales, would have been accepted with a B and a D, is a moot point, but he did meet the official minimum requirements! He *could* have gone to university with a B or a D, but, unless he applied for a very unpopular course, it's unlikely that he'd have got in. I had to get a minimum of 2 Bs and a C, and that was nearly 30 years ago and "grade inflation" means you generally need higher grades now than you did then.

Not everyone's academic, but William, Beatrice, Eugenie, Peter and Zara all had to get the grades needed for their courses: the days of royals being allowed into university just because of who they are are gone.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

A first is just a first and a third is just a third.

Only the seconds are divided into a 2.1 and 2.2.

There are four levels - 1st, 2.1, 2.2 and 3rd.

How they are awarded can vary by university but you do want a 1st or 2.1 for preference - which the younger royals all earned.

One thing to remember is that standards in the UK, as in many other countries, have dropped to allow more students to qualify to go to university.

Ok, now this makes sense! Thanks!

[Erin9]

Thank you all! This has been very helpful!

ETA- I also really appreciate explaining what the minimum requirements are vs. how things typically work in reality.

[Molly2101]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

No, I don't think there is a UK university that will admit you with only two A-levels, especially with one at D. Hopefully Louise and James will live up to some of their other cousins.

Do I take it Sophie didn't go to university, either, then?

Nope, Sophie did not go to university; instead she went to secretarial college. Perhaps she was not interested in going and to be fair, Sophie is an example of someone doing professionally well without having to have a degree. She did own her own PR company after all.

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Erin9

So….I thought I read Harry only had 2 A levels with grades of a B and D- can’t recall the subjects. Didn’t he have to take 3 A levels? Or have standards changed? Or is that 3 are required to go to university?

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh!

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by muriel

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh!

Not everybody is academically inclined for book learning. He may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to academics but could be the brightest crayon in the box when it came to hands on applications of doing things and figuring things out. Depends on where one's talents lie.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by muriel

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh!

Academics wasn’t his talent for sure, but he may be more gifted in other ways. But- him being the anomaly of the grandchildren in terms of A levels has helped me understand how the system works. I definitely get why I’ve consistently read academics weren’t his strong suit.

I’ve been confused about A levels and the university graduation rankings for a long time.

Sophie is a good example of doing well without university education.

[Alison H]

Things have changed over the last two or three generations. Only a minority of people used to go on to university, but many more people do now. If Sophie were leaving school now, she'd almost certainly go to university. The authorities have been very keen to keep people in education for longer, but it's not necessarily the right option for everyone.

[Claire]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

Nope, Sophie did not go to university; instead she went to secretarial college. Perhaps she was not interested in going and to be fair, Sophie is an example of someone doing professionally well without having to have a degree. She did own her own PR company after all.

It is very possible that Sophie and her parents were not in a position to afford university. Sophie's marks are unknown. But she continued with her education for several years afterwards, secretarial and business school - with money she was earning herself.

Also Edward's A-Levels were never released to the press. A tabloid provided them and it was confirmed many years later that they were incorrect. We do not know what Edward actually got. But it has became a smacking stick to hit Edward with since. Many people got into Oxbridge through the Army, Navy and Marine programme with lower marks, and the Oxbridge requirements of today were not the requirements of then either. Edward also completed another qualification after leaving the Marines. It was never announced what he was studying but he did some sort of business qualification.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Claire

It is very possible that Sophie and her parents were not in a position to afford university. Sophie's marks are unknown. But she continued with her education for several years afterwards, secretarial and business school - with money she was earning herself.

Also Edward's A-Levels were never released to the press. A tabloid provided them and it was confirmed many years later that they were incorrect. We do not know what Edward actually got. But it has became a smacking stick to hit Edward with since. Many people got into Oxbridge through the Army, Navy and Marine programme with lower marks, and the Oxbridge requirements of today were not the requirements of then either.

I dont think her family were that poor.. and if they were she could have gotten a grant...
I dont think that Edward or Sophie are brilliant but they have developed a reasonable owrk ethic and common sense...

[Claire]

Sophie's father was a used tyre salesman through the 1980's and her mom was a personal secretary/ aid worker. Her mom took a second job to assist with payments.

It is possible that Sophie might have been able to get a bursary, but there is no evidence to say so - she wanted to go work as soon as possible. But her parents wanted her to have some training to help set her up in a good job so she training as a secretary on typing and shorthand. She stayed at home during this time, even worked part time in a pub.

I am not saying the Wessex's are brilliant - few people are. And as far as work ethic and common sense go - and this really isn't the thread.

[Molly2101]

Originally Posted by Claire

It is very possible that Sophie and her parents were not in a position to afford university. Sophie's marks are unknown. But she continued with her education for several years afterwards, secretarial and business school - with money she was earning herself.

Also Edward's A-Levels were never released to the press. A tabloid provided them and it was confirmed many years later that they were incorrect. We do not know what Edward actually got. But it has became a smacking stick to hit Edward with since. Many people got into Oxbridge through the Army, Navy and Marine programme with lower marks, and the Oxbridge requirements of today were not the requirements of then either. Edward also completed another qualification after leaving the Marines. It was never announced what he was studying but he did some sort of business qualification.

I don’t think finance was the reason for not going to university. Her parents were “middle class” but they were still able to afford to send both their children to public schools. Perhaps Sophie just didn’t want to go.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

I don’t think finance was the reason for not going to university. Her parents were “middle class” but they were still able to afford to send both their children to public schools. Perhaps Sophie just didn’t want to go.

perhaps she didn't get the qualifications. As far as I know there were still grants in the 1980s.. and if the family could send her to a good school, i am sure they could send her to college if she'd wanted to go...

[Alison H]

Originally Posted by Claire

It is very possible that Sophie and her parents were not in a position to afford university. Sophie's marks are unknown. .

University was free then! And you got a grant to pay your living costs. It was only in the late 1990s that things changed: I was at university in the early/mid 1990s, and your fees were all paid for you, and you got a grant based on your family's income. Sophie probably just didn't want to go. A lot fewer people went to university then.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Getting a first at university is a major mark of distinction. More than any kind of cum laude, I think. (Dependent, of course, on the university.)

And getting a third is basically embarrassing.

Just looked up the number of people receiving a first. Cum laude is much, much harder to get.

According to this overview:
A first grade honours is becoming much more common, while it already was 22% in 2014-2015; it was up to 28% in 2018-2019. While 2.1 is achieved by almost half of the students (48-49%); 2.2 decreased from 23% to 19% and 3 from 5% to 4%

Apparently, you only need a score of 70% or higher for a first grade honours; and you can already pass (C) with only 40% or up. In the Dutch system (although comparing is not completely possible) you would need 50-55% (5.5 on a scale of 1-10) for a pass; and would need 80% (8.0 on a scale of 1-10) or higher for cum laude (with some additional requirements; such as no grade lower than 7.0; no repeated courses, etc. (differing slightly between universities)).

Of course, someone's grades also depend on the difficulty level of the exams...

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Alison H

University was free then! And you got a grant to pay your living costs. It was only in the late 1990s that things changed: I was at university in the early/mid 1990s, and your fees were all paid for you, and you got a grant based on your family's income. Sophie probably just didn't want to go. A lot fewer people went to university then.

That's what I thought there were quite good grants then in the 80s, Possibly Sophie didn't have great grades or just wans't intererested....

[Sandy345]

I think perhaps Sophie was interested in a business career and took courses to further that ambition.