Earl and Countess of Wessex and Family Current Events 10: November 2018 - March 2023

[Claire]

Makes me wonder if the arrangement of the Duke of Edinburgh title has falling away? That was to be his Scottish title?

[AdmirerUS]

This though, from Wikipedia, "Forfar is also known for the "coo o Forfar". A householder left a tub of beer in the doorway to cool, and a passing cow drank it. When the owner of the cow was charged for the beer, a baillie ruled that if the beer was drunk at the doorway it was "deoch an doras" or "stirrup cup", to charge for which would be an insult to Scots hospitality. This became a byword: "Be like the coo o Forfar, an tak a stannin drink".[24]"

[Claire]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The most "Liked" reply to the announcement is extremely contemptuous of the Earl.

https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/stat...78617412485122

Is there a reason the Earl of Wessex is apparently so disliked? It surprises me very much, as he appears dedicated to his duties and no recent scandals come to mind.

A lot of it comes fro negative press in the 80's and most of it was simply rumours. Yes - he did do the Royal Knockout which was a problem in the light that it drew on the royals as ordinary people , but more the press contempt as they weren't allowed to photograph due to a contract with a specific media group. He resigned his military commission which is still today seen as cowardly. Odd in a country where mostly people don't join the armed services themselves, but it was proof of his homosexuality for many. Then when Edward decided to follow the arts as his employment, further fodder. HE has for years been considered the black sheep of the family, the press often pit him against Charles or William as the villain in their soap opera. I have been told that we will never hear the truth of the Following William at St. Andrew's incident - but I know for certain that William threw a tantrum and event the staff at St. Andrew's wondered what the fuss was about. Whatever the truth was - didn't stop the tabloid from making up the story, I am told that the truth was actually a far better story, but William and Kate would not have come out clean there.

Edward has been doing engagements since the age of 17, with little or no publicity. Even when he was at university and when he was employed full time. It wouldn't surprise me that when he dies we will be told that he was some anonymous writer or something. The press don't like him as he doesn't play to them and he doesn't mind. There was a request from the Queen to a campaign to help with his public image and he rejected it. He really doesn't care what the press and the public think of him. He just gets on with the job. The people that are important to him know him and that is it.

[Curryong]

Are the Wessexes going to offer stirrup cups to passers by when in Scotland? Forfar can sound sound very attractive when pronounced with a Scottish burr, rolling the Rs. I have to confess though, I'm mystified. Why the extra earldom now? Is Edward finding it a bit unfair with no Dukedom and his brothers and two of his nephews having more senior titles?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Marlo

I am surprised he didn't get a Scottish title on his wedding day. Why now?

The Queen probably saw no reason to grant a (Scottish) second viscountcy or barony to him because nobody would be entitled to use it while Prince Edward remained "only" an Earl, under the convention that only the eldest sons of earls, marquesses, and dukes may use the lower titles which their fathers or grandfathers hold in their own right.

For example, if Prince Edward had been created "Earl of Wessex, Viscount Severn, and Baron Forfar" upon marriage, his eldest son would be known as Viscount Severn, but Viscount Severn's eldest son would be known as The Honourable (Name) Mountbatten-Windsor, not Lord Forfar.

As to being granted a Scottish earldom (which Edward, rather than his son or grandson, will use), it seems to be a reward for his engagements representing the crown in Scotland over the years.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Dman

The Earldom of Isles

Lord of the Isles is already taken by Prince Charles

[Dman]

Originally Posted by JR76

Lord of the Isles is already taken by Prince Charles

Then the Earldom of Highland.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Dman

I don’t know, make up one. The Earldom of Serenity. The Earldom of Isles. The Earldom of Heather. The Earldom of Highland.

That would do wonders for the RF publicly...

Originally Posted by Claire

Makes me wonder if the arrangement of the Duke of Edinburgh title has falling away? That was to be his Scottish title?

Originally Posted by Marlo

I am surprised he didn't get a Scottish title on his wedding day. Why now?

Originally Posted by Curryong

Are the Wessexes going to offer stirrup cups to passers by when in Scotland? Forfar can sound sound very attractive when pronounced with a Scottish burr, rolling the Rs. I have to confess though, I'm mystified. Why the extra earldom now? Is Edward finding it a bit unfair with no Dukedom and his brothers and two of his nephews having more senior titles?

I genuinely see this title as thank you from The Queen to her son. It’s quite significant the announcement was made on his birthday. People bringing ideas of jealously and insecurity into the mix clearly don’t understand the RF.

[wyevale]

I'm very fond of the word 'Forfar'.. as it was the name of a really excellent Tea Shop in Brighton when I was at Art school there.. so I wholeheartedly approve of HMQ's choice.
Many congrats to the Earl and Countess of Wessex and Forfar...

[Countessmeout]

Great news, nice honor to Edward on his birthday

Bit surprised though. Its not like a knighthood, being granted a new peerage. Usually peerages are given on the wedding and that's it. A new peerage now is definitely a surprise. I wasn't expecting a Scottish title till he is DOE.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Claire

A lot of it comes fro negative press in the 80's and most of it was simply rumours. Yes - he did do the Royal Knockout which was a problem in the light that it drew on the royals as ordinary people , but more the press contempt as they weren't allowed to photograph due to a contract with a specific media group. He resigned his military commission which is still today seen as cowardly. Odd in a country where mostly people don't join the armed services themselves, but it was proof of his homosexuality for many. Then when Edward decided to follow the arts as his employment, further fodder. HE has for years been considered the black sheep of the family, the press often pit him against Charles or William as the villain in their soap opera. I have been told that we will never hear the truth of the Following William at St. Andrew's incident - but I know for certain that William threw a tantrum and event the staff at St. Andrew's wondered what the fuss was about. Whatever the truth was - didn't stop the tabloid from making up the story, I am told that the truth was actually a far better story, but William and Kate would not have come out clean there.

.

The "fuss" was that the Press had agreed to leave Will and Harry alone until they were out of school or Uni..and mostly they had stuck to that agreemetnt.. and then his OWN UNCLE followed hm around. I don't blame Will and Chalres if they were furious.
As for his giving up being in the Marines, it had nothing to do with his being considered cowardly but it seemed stupid to undertake it and then drop out. He could have finished the course and then said that he didn't want to remain in the services...

[An Ard Ri]

The last Earl of Forfar died in 1715 ,its a nice birthday gift for Prince Edward!

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Denville

The "fuss" was that the Press had agreed to leave Will and Harry alone until they were out of school or Uni..and mostly they had stuck to that agreemetnt.. and then his OWN UNCLE followed hm around. I don't blame Will and Chalres if they were furious.
As for his giving up being in the Marines, it had nothing to do with his being considered cowardly but it seemed stupid to undertake it and then drop out. He could have finished the course and then said that he didn't want to remain in the services...

If he was going to leave the Marines, it was better he do it when he did. Anything else would have smacked of special treatment. When you join the armed forces, you sign a contract. You only have a 6 month window to decide if it the career for you. If you don't leave before 6 months, you are required to fill your four year commitment. If he had been allowed to leave after a year, the press would have rightfully claimed he got special treatment.

The only option would have been to find him some desk job with the marines to avoid actual deployment. But he would still have been committed.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

If he was going to leave the Marines, it was better he do it when he did. Anything else would have smacked of special treatment. When you join the armed forces, you sign a contract. You only have a 6 month window to decide if it the career for you. If you don't leave before 6 months, you are required to fill your four year commitment. If he had been allowed to leave after a year, the press would have rightfully claimed he got special treatment.

The only option would have been to find him some desk job with the marines to avoid actual deployment. But he would still have been committed.

my recollection was that he quit after 4 or 5 months...

[Iluvbertie]

I wonder if Viscount Severn will now use Forfar instead as that is the normal practice - to use their father's second title.

As for Edward using it in Scotland what I have found interesting in the CC this year is that they haven't been using secondary titles at all other than for Charles e.g. William and Kate made a visit to Scotland and the CC didn't use Strathearn. The CC hasn't used Inverness for Andrew for about 20 years now. The CC didn't use Carrickfergus for the Cambridges on their recent visit to Northern Ireland. I would therefore expect the Wessexes to still be Wessex only when in Scotland in the CC.

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by Dman

Well, that’s very nice. But can someone tell me where the hell The Queen get these titles from? I mean, if your gonna give your child a royal title, make it an attractive one. Forfar? Really?

"Forfar" is the region of Scotland where Glamis Castle is, the seat of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother's family.

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

I wonder if Viscount Severn will now use Forfar instead as that is the normal practice - to use their father's second title.

.

I wouldn't think so, as Wessex and Forfar are the same degree of peerage. Courtesy titles are always a lower degree than the main title. It is quite possible that when the peerage leaves the royal family it will become "Earl of Wessex and Forfar" much as other titles have merged over the years, especially since the first holder of each is the same person.

I did see one speculation on another board and that is whether the new title has a remainder that is gender-neutral. That would mean that James would eventually get Wessex while Louise would get Forfar. I doubt it, but an interesting idea.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Interesting surprise for Edward's birthday. Does the earldom have any hereditary titles e.g. viscount or baron?

[wyevale]

I did see speculation *elsewhere* and that is whether the new title has a remainder that is 'gender-neutral'. That would mean that Lord Severn would eventually get the Edinburgh/Wessex peerage while Lady Louise would get the Forfar one. I doubt it, but an interesting idea.

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess

Interesting surprise for Edward's birthday. Does the earldom have any hereditary titles e.g. viscount or baron?

Here's the official notice from the British Monarchy Website: https://www.royal.uk/title-earl-wessex. No additional subsidiary titles are mentioned.