What is your opinion about Sarah, Duchess of York?

[Elspeth]

Could we turn down the heat a bit, please? This is just an exchange of opinions, and the conversation will go a lot more smoothly if people exchange opinions in a positive environment.

Since Skydragon is also British, the chances are that she's quite aware of the timing. All of us who were around then and interested in royalty probably remember that Andrew returned from the Falklands and went on vacation with Koo Stark, because the tabloids made such a meal of it at the time. I don't want to speak for Skydragon, but it's possible she meant to say "a man who had risked his life..." and assumed that people who were familiar with the Yorks would know what she was saying.

 

[Roslyn]

And I defy anyone to say the Duchess doesn't have glorious legs!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d98/servingsophie/is_12703922.jpg

Yes, Sarah's legs do look very nice in that pic, and in the others of that event posted at Post 142 in her Current Events thread. She is wearing very attractive dark stockings and the skirt is a sensible length. I do not, however, think that her choice of skirt in the pic Iceflower posted in Post 126 in the Current Events thread is as attractive. The skirt is short and her knees are displayed. You'll note her young daughters, whose knees probably look much nicer, are covered by their longer skirts.

I think that after about the age of 25, knees get less and less attractive, and should be covered up with stockings at least.

Roslyn,
not a fan of knees, or elbows

 

[Skydragon]

I don't want to speak for Skydragon, but it's possible she meant to say "a man who had risked his life..." and assumed that people who were familiar with the Yorks would know what she was saying.

Yes sorry Elspeth, I did mean to say a man who had risked his life.

 

[Skydragon]

I'm British and remember the period with great fondness. The Duchess was afforded an equal amount of coverage by the British press during her marriage to Prince Andrew and was equally accepted and loved by the British people.

Andrew was a serving officer on active duty until 1996 and as such was doing something for his country, not prancing about in a swimsuit having his toes sucked! I know some people believe that if you are in the navy, it's just like being on a cruise, but I realise that it is hard work.
Sarah was never accepted by the British and was not, IMO ever 'loved' by them either. I hold to my belief that Sarah is loud and most of the time dressed in clothes that are designed for a younger woman - mutton dressed as lamb is the phrase that comes to mind!

 

[Skydragon]

Interesting, skydragon. Do you equate loudness and unable to exhibit decorum as a lack of uprightness, moral standing, character?

Certainly an inability to act with decorum exhibits a lack of 'uprightness'. I well remember the horror of the incident of Sarah and Di, dressed in policewoman 'stripper' outfits trying to gatecrash Andrews stag night.

I would think, like many people, I do not enjoy the company of people who are loud, who feel no shame about talking loudly in the restaurant, shouting at their companions rather than having a quiet conversation, drowning everyone else out, informing the whole world of their love life or lack of it, shreiking with laughter as if the whole world should find you and your friends amusing. Being loud, to me shows a lack of character, a lack of consideration for companions or complete strangers.

At Sarahs' age letting it all 'hang out' IMO shows an inability to accept that she is getting older, her legs have that stringy, 'past their best' look.

 

[Elspeth]

Sarah was never accepted by the British and was not, IMO ever 'loved' by them either.

I think this is as much of a generalisation as the comment about how much everyone loved her. Some people thought right from the start that she was too rambunctious and vulgar, but others liked her directness and her love of the outdoors and capacity for enjoyment.

One of the problems was that the press was stirring - early on, they were comparing Sarah favourably with Diana, then they decided that she was too over-the-top and hounded her for her poor dress sense and her undisciplined loudness, when nothing much had actually changed in her life but the press were just wanting to stir up controversy and sell their papers.

 

[Skydragon]

I think this is as much of a generalisation as the comment about how much everyone loved her.

Yes, you are right and I apologize for generalising.
The fact remains however that when she was caught cheating on Andrew, she received very little sympathy and I believe that was because she was (rightly IMO) seen as loud and uncouth.
We are so busy congratulating her on paying back her debts that we tend to forget that she managed to run them up herself in the first place, so who should have paid all her creditors if not Sarah?

 

[BeatrixFan]

My grandmother was at a service at Durham Cathedral way back when Sarah was still a part of the firm. Princess Alexandra was there too. In front of my grandmother was a row of wheelchairs with people with Downs Syndrome in them. Alexandra knelt down in front of each one and held their hands and spoke to them. Sarah attempted it and one of the people in a wheelchair put his hand on Sarah's arm and she jumped like a scalded cat saying, "No no, I can't have them touching me". Needless to say, Sarah was never invited back but it goes to show just how Sarah was in her early years. She may have learned alot now but she was never particularly loved IMO.

 

[Laviollette]

I don't think you can read that from Sarah's statement.

The girls' legal names are HRH The Princess Beatrice and HRH The Princess Eugenie. Together they would be TRH The Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.

Princess Anne and Princess Margaret were known to put pesky commoners quite firmly in their place for trying to get too chummy when referring to a royal relative with phrases like 'your mother' or 'your sister' or 'your brother'. Anne would turn around and say "Are you referring to Her Majesty the Queen?" Its got to be a family habit.

I loved it.

But isn't the reason people claim to like Sarah Ferguson is because she is of the common folk variety and not a stuffy royal? She is "real" right? I think the David Letterman episode showed just what she is and that she absolutely continues to use her long-ago marriage to Prince Andrew to stay in celebrity society. I wish he'd marry some stunner and they have a son and leave Sarah behind.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The girls' legal names are HRH The Princess Beatrice and HRH The Princess Eugenie.

The girls are not THE Princess Beatrice and THE Princess Eugenie, they are Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie. They don't get the "The" because they aren't daughters of a Sovereign.

 

[Laviollette]

...Regardless of whether you think Sarah has a right to correct David Letterman on titles; she married into a family where that was the expected behavior so I don't think you can read the fact that she is insecure out of this incident...

But Sarah didn't live up to the expected behavior, dignity, discretion or decorum of being a royal so why is protocol and addressing a royal properly suddenly so important to her? We know why. Because she holds on to her RF connections through Andrew and her daughters for dear life. She continues her social climbing that started when she married Andrew.

 

[Skydragon]

But Sarah didn't live up to the expected behavior, dignity, discretion or decorum of being a royal so why is protocol and addressing a royal properly suddenly so important to her? We know why. Because she holds on to her RF connections through Andrew and her daughters for dear life. She continues her social climbing that started when she married Andrew.

Exactly, you have hit the nail on the head with your post! IMO.

 

[Bella]

I think Sarah is in the unfortunate position of being caught between a rock and a hard place. She's no longer a royal and is basically snubbed by them, even the "lesser" royals avoid her. They more-than-likely put up w her as the mother of two princesses when they have to. Yet despite her one-of-the-guys approach, she really isn't one of the guys because of who she WAS and who her children are. So she really doesn't fit in anywhere and I think that leaves her confused and flopping around like a fish on a board deck. Not an enviable place to be, IMO.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Of course, she could always get a job.

 

[Trudie]

I have always liked Sarah because she is such a genuine person. No matter what people think of her she is a very good mother and if the Palace had let her and Andrew have a normal marriage from day one instead of them only being together 42 days a year their marriage may have survived. All everyone talks about is her behavior unbecoming to the RF well look at Andrew and some of his undignified behavior in rhe past. And as for using her title to further herself well face it since her marriage it was and is her title and that is what businesses want not to mention she is very good at business and do not forget her charity interests especially Chances for Children.

 

[Zonk]

Working

She does have a job...she works for Weight Watchers and the china company (Can't remember the name sorry...Wedgewood, Lenox?). She doesn't work in Britain...so who cares if she uses her royal connections in the states? She's not hurting anyone here. In fact, when Sarah does comes to the US..she is very low key. Does her promotional events, turns up at a party every now and then and then goes back home.

I mean Princess Michael uses her royal connections to promote herself in Britain..and she doesn't even begin (at least IMO) to get a fraction of the contempt/hatred that is directed at Sarah.. And I am just comparing their business dealings. And she is still a member of the Royal Family...albeit a junior member.

 

[Furienna]

You mean Princess Michael of Kent?

 

[Trudie]

Trudie

Andrew was a serving officer on active duty until 1996 and as such was doing something for his country, not prancing about in a swimsuit having his toes sucked! I know some people believe that if you are in the navy, it's just like being on a cruise, but I realise that it is hard work.
Sarah was never accepted by the British and was not, IMO ever 'loved' by them either. I hold to my belief that Sarah is loud and most of the time dressed in clothes that are designed for a younger woman - mutton dressed as lamb is the phrase that comes to mind!

MY ex husband served in the navy in the US and not it is not a cruise they work very hard but, We lived together as husband and wife the Palace said no to Andrew and Sarah living on a base so it is no wonder she turned to someone for comfort. Sarah was not liked by the courtiers and I believe to this day she was set up. Diana was married to the Heir so her affairs were kept quiet and given her circumstances it was no small wonder she too turned to other men for comfort.

 

[Zonk]

You mean Princess Michael of Kent?

Yes, I do mean Princess Michael of Kent. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[BeatrixFan]

She does have a job...she works for Weight Watchers and the china company

Oh now come on dear, you don't actually think Miss Ferguson actually does any work? She makes her money from the chat show circuit. She's not hurting anyone in the USA because she knows if she does there what she did here they'd kick her out as well. Now, Princess Michael doesn't work - but my God that woman has style. Sarah has nothing. She's tried the botox, she's attempted to look glam at the premieres, she's done Letterman - but she is what she is. A reject. We like Princess Michael because she's an opportunist and she's open about it. She doesn't claim to be a victim - she does what she does and does it with style and she is a true Princess. Sarah is an opportunist but she tries to present herself as this caring saviour when in actual fact, she's just a barnacle on her daughter's, trying to eek the last drops of fame before they grow up and realise that we aint laughing with Fergie - we're laughing at her. Let us never forget the prayer for Royal animals;

"We pray for Her Majesty's Corgis, Princess Anne's horses and for anything that get's sat on by the Duchess of York".

Sarah is now a nothing. A nobody. Let's just hope she'll complete the rounds, find a Liza-style hubby and then disappear for good.

 

[Roslyn]

Oh now come on dear, you don't actually think Miss Ferguson actually does any work? She makes her money from the chat show circuit. She's not hurting anyone in the USA because she knows if she does there what she did here they'd kick her out as well. Now, Princess Michael doesn't work - but my God that woman has style. Sarah has nothing. She's tried the botox, she's attempted to look glam at the premieres, she's done Letterman - but she is what she is. A reject. We like Princess Michael because she's an opportunist and she's open about it. She doesn't claim to be a victim - she does what she does and does it with style and she is a true Princess. Sarah is an opportunist but she tries to present herself as this caring saviour when in actual fact, she's just a barnacle on her daughter's, trying to eek the last drops of fame before they grow up and realise that we aint laughing with Fergie - we're laughing at her. Let us never forget the prayer for Royal animals;

"We pray for Her Majesty's Corgis, Princess Anne's horses and for anything that get's sat on by the Duchess of York".

Sarah is now a nothing. A nobody. Let's just hope she'll complete the rounds, find a Liza-style hubby and then disappear for good.

My goodness! You really don't like her, do you?

Whatever else she may be, and may have done, and whatever faults she may have, she is the loving mother of Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie, and she and her ex-husband have done a splendid job raising those girls, who both seem charming and well-adjusted, and who both seem to adore their mother. She has an excellent relationship with her former husband, and with their daughters. That's something of an achievement, I think.

 

[Furienna]

Yes, I do mean Princess Michael of Kent. Sorry for the confusion.

But hasn't she been in a scandal about what she might have said about some black people on a restaurant in New York? At least for a while, she wasn't liked either.

 

[Zonk]

But hasn't she been in a scandal about what she might have said about some black people on a restaurant in New York? At least for a while, she wasn't liked either.

Honestly...when I mentioned Princess Michael of Kent, I was actually referring to the charges that she to uses her royal connections for business opportunities as well. That's the only comparison that I am making.

Both Sarah and Princess Michael have done and said things that one wouldn't expect from a royal. But in this instance, I was just using her as a point of reference since so many people criticize Sarah for using her royal connections. More of...okay..you criticize Sarah but she isn't the only one.

And yes, I recognize that this thread isn't about Princess Michael of Kent.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Thats right Roslyn - I aint a fan!

Zonk, I disagree with you. Princess Michael has acted like a Royal. Everything she does, we expect of a Princess. Maybe not a modern Princess but of a 1920s style Princess, totally. Sarah has never acted like a Royal. She never could carry herself or make herself presentable and I know that alot of people in Britain saw her as a true embarassment. They still do.

 

[Zonk]

Well BeatrixFan..we must agree to disagree

As this thread is not about Princess Michael of Kent, I won't go into great detail about some of the events or episodes that she has done that might have cause embarassment to some. I will, however, reiterate what I said in the beginning of the thread.

While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, and you can either like or dislike Sarah just because you do. Because she was loud, had no class and totally unsuitable for royal life. I understand that. I just find it hypocritical to use examples of things she has done, when other people have done the same thing and yet they are forgiven because they are human. Yes, she cheated on Andrew (but so has Margaret, Camilla, Charles, Diana, and Anne. Not cheated on Andrew mind you but you get the point). Yes, she acquired a large debt (Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother). Yes, she has used her royal connections to make money but so has the Prince and Princess Michael of Kent. It just seems like forgiveness (or the past is the past mantra that so many like to say) is only available for a select few.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

Margaret, Camilla, The Queen Mother, Diana, etc... everyone mentioned in the previous post has done one bad action they cannot or should not be proud of.... the problem qith Sarah is that she has done ALL of them and that is too much.

 

[Skydragon]

It just seems like forgiveness (or the past is the past mantra that so many like to say) is only available for a select few.

I think it's only me that uses that 'mantra' (although I don't repeat it to aid my concentration).

Sarahs 'crime', IMO, is that she can't or won't let go of the past. She is like one of these sad old women you hear about, who 30 years after the divorce, turn up uninvited at a function and introduce themselves as 'mrs ??', an absolute laughing stock, that people who know her get sick and tired of.

Margaret, Camilla, The Queen Mother, Diana, etc... everyone mentioned in the previous post has done one bad action they cannot or should not be proud of.... the problem with Sarah is that she has done ALL of them and that is too much.

Exactly

 

[Skydragon]

MY ex husband served in the navy in the US and not it is not a cruise they work very hard but, We lived together as husband and wife the Palace said no to Andrew and Sarah living on a base so it is no wonder she turned to someone for comfort.

As with anyone married or living with a member of the armed forces, you know what life is going to be like.

You also know that as a member of the navy, your husband/partner is going to be away, for long periods at a time. I wouldn't have thought Andrew or Sarah would have been happy living on the base in a little 4 bed, semi detached house, provided by the MOD.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

As with anyone married or living with a member of the armed forces, you know what life is going to be like.

You also know that as a member of the navy, your husband/partner is going to be away, for long periods at a time. I wouldn't have thought Andrew or Sarah would have been happy living on the base in a little 4 bed, semi detached house, provided by the MOD.

I don't think Sarah really realized how life would be. It was far easier for Diana and even she, with her aristocratic background and her marriage to the heir (and not his much poorer spare) did not manage.

IMHO Sarah thought seh would marry money and leisure at the top of the social pyramid, with an amusing and, yes, lovable husband when she only got status, herself a workload and a husband who had a tough job.

But - that's only an explanation for her antics, her debts and her mistakes, it's not an excuse. If you read how carefully Crown Princess Mary examined the pro and cons of her and Frederick's situation and how they planned and prepared for this final step out in the open, then you can blame Sarah for not having been as logical and sensible as these two. I mean if I had the unfortune to fall in love with a representative of such an impressive but strict institution and he asked me to become his wife, then I would be very, very careful in my decision as I'd know that it's not only the guy but the whole system you have to embrace.

So that's a point against Sarah having said "yes" when she was not willing to buy the whole package. IMHO she still keeps part of the package after having damaged so many things for the Royals who had to stay behind and that's not fair and not correct, IMHO. Maybe I have this reaction to her because she is always so loud, as Skydragon remarks. She radiates bad taste and an absolute lack of decorum. After all she cheated on her husband, damaging the whole monarchy in the resulting divorce and thus should lead a little more dignified life without dragging her kids to parties of the likes of Puff Daddy.

But even this point is a minor point. I'm really conservative at heart. While I find the mess Sarah created on being herself sad, embarrassing and distressing for the Brits, I find the mess she created on cheating on her husband unjustifieable and utterly appalling. Especially as her husband's kids were in the vincinity of this "private" pool. I wouldn't wonder if the paparazzi were tipped off by a member of Sarah's own household who did not condone her behaviour.

 

[Zonk]

I am so sure a member of her household alerted the press to what was going on the pool. She was certainly foolish to be so careless. Mind you...that definitely does not excuse her behavior.

And IMO its unfair to make a comparison between Sarah and Crown Princess Mary because after the breakdown of Sarah's marriage..I am sure most royal household compiled a video of WHAT NOT DO when you marry a Royal and she was the prime star Remember unti Sarah and Diana, when most people married into the Royal Families...you didn't get the reaction from the public and the press that these two received. Now whether they courted it and brought a lot of it on themselves is debatable.

In regards to the cheating done by the other people I mentioned..it wasn't one time..in fact many of them carried on long standing relationships. So cheating with your spouse once or twice is better than carrying on another relationship at the same time. I don't think so. Cheating is Cheating.

And Skydragon..even though I referenced your "past is past" quote..you are not the only one who says that...just maybe the only one who has it at the bottom of their signature

And while I agree that Sarah shouldn't party and hang out with her kids...it should be noted that after the divorce and prior to them reaching the "teenage years" Sarah did in fact attend parties such as this. Which makes me wonder...who is asking who to go to the party