The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[sndral]

Personally, I smell a very large rat. Ms Maxwell knows an awful lot about Epstein's lifestyle, even shared it so one has to wonder . . . she has been highly visible ever since Epstein was arrested yet she was not.

Out of the blue William Barr, US Attorney General tweeted that AG of SDNY Geoffrey Berman had resigned. Seeing this he tweeted that not only had he not resigned but that he had no intention of doing so. Barr said okay, I'll get the President to fire him and replace him with a Trump ally who has never tried a case.

Managing to force Mr Berman to resign Barr is left with his Deputy AG. Ooops, the new AG has to be confirmed by the Senate so no quick turnaround. But why now, 5 months before an election? There are no trials of great note on the docket so why. Suddenly, out of the blue, Ms Maxwell has been arrested.

Hmm. I hope she is in excellent physical and mental health because she is the living repository of all Epstein's perversions and the great and the good of like mind.

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The pandemic most likely slowed the timing of the arrest down. In Federal felony prosecutions you need to convene a grand jury and the prosecutor has to present evidence, including witness testimony, to the jurors to get the indictment that starts the case. To conduct a grand jury you need around 20 jurors, prosecutors, court reporter, bailiff, security outside, witnesses in and out, etc.. I actually wonder how they managed since NY has been such a COVID hotspot & was locked down early.

 

[Lilyflo]

The threat of being questioned is a greater, more effective and more realistic punishment for a Prince of the blood. He is surely not going to end up in court. The British state will do everything in its power to prevent this from happening. It is unrealistic and limiting to only aim for something that is not going to happen. Leave the threat hanging over him for the rest of his life. For someone accustomed to a life of arrogance and utter entitlement, it makes more impact to know you MIGHT be extradited. That pressure seems the best way to protect the British monarchy and ensure Andrew receives due punishment. He gets to retire to house arrest in a big house in the country with Fergie and the bees and no chance of luxury air travel for fear of being extradited outside the UK. These limits add up to real hardship.

My firm belief that Andrew should agree to be questioned as a witness is nothing to do with any punishment. For starters we don't know if he's done anything that warrants punishment and secondly, assisting those abused women to achieve justice is something Andrew should be very keen to do.

If he's done nothing wrong then he should have nothing to fear because he's a high profile man from a very powerful family. Nobody's going to spray him with mace, taser him or press their knee on his neck. All he has to do is answer questions as a witness about what he saw and heard when he was with Epstein and Maxwell or at their properties. He'll have 1st class lawyers with him so what is stopping him from helping those women?

 

[Osipi]

This scandal is too sleazy for words. The sooner Prince Andrew leaves public life the better.

Prince Andrew left public life on November 20, 2019.

"The terse, grammatically-challenged statement from HRH The Duke of York declaring his decision to withdraw from public life late on November 20 – more specifically, his retreat from some 200 charities and attendant royal duties – was a curiously revealing Royal Family bombshell in several ways.Nov 21, 2019"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/guymar...life-means-for-the-royal-family/#465c2ede3316

 

[Madame Verseau]

Exile from public life is not enough. If Maxwell provides testimony and evidence of Andrew's culpability he needs to answer for it. Stalling has already damaged the image of the BRF for perceptions on not making Andrew to face the music.

 

[Osipi]

Even if Maxwell "told all" about Andrew and perhaps even provided video tape of Andrew's encounter with Guiffre, it wouldn't be pertinent to the case filed in SDNY at this time against Maxwell.

Any other kind of "punishment" other that whatever has been done already would actually have to be based on Andrew committing a crime. To my knowledge, there aren't any allegations at this time of a criminal offense against Andrew.

Now if Virginia Guiffre were to file a civil suit against Andrew in the US, it would have to be proven that the allegation against Andrew is a crime in both the US and the UK and be punishable by at least one year in jail in order for the UK to extradite Andrew to the US for prosecution. That can get kind of tricky.

The main focus now is on Ghislaine Maxwell as it rightly should be. Nothing is going to be done to Andrew just because he's making the BRF look bad. There will have to be a conviction of something beyond a reasonable doubt for that to happen.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Exile from public life is not enough. If Maxwell provides testimony and evidence of Andrew's culpability he needs to answer for it. Stalling has already damaged the image of the BRF for perceptions on not making Andrew to face the music.

What stalling has been done? From Andrews own words he’s offered to cooperate and these offers have been ignored. Whether that’s true or not we won’t know but it’s a lot of he said she said right now. Currently Andrew has nothing to face the music for legally, so the BRF is not on the wrong in any regard as far as I see.

———————————-


However, Andrew is in the wrong for allowing this to happen, the man has no scruples.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1279157933398515712

 

[Madame Verseau]

The problem is others are starting to weigh in, choice or not

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Prince-Andrew-Ghislaine-Maxwells-arrest.html

Andrew's mess may become a political football; but in the end this is not going away for the Windsors.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Ghislaine strikes me as the sort of person who'll spill secrets to get on bail or an earlier release. It will be interesting to see how this'll pan out and if Andrew will be involved further.

 

[Osipi]

Ghislaine Maxwell will not be granted bail. The reason stated is that she's an extreme flight risk. So that's a good thing. With the charges filed against her, I really don't believe that she'll even get remotely close to anything other than the sentencing to the full extent of the law and will spend the rest of her days in prison. Hope orange suits her.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree with you that Ms. Maxwell will not be granted bail for the exact reason you stated.

What I will never understand is why she didn't leave the U.S. immediately after Epstein was arrested?

I am happy she is behind bars where she belongs.

 

[Eskimo]

Exile from public life is not enough. If Maxwell provides testimony and evidence of Andrew's culpability he needs to answer for it. Stalling has already damaged the image of the BRF for perceptions on not making Andrew to face the music.

Unless Maxwell can provide unrefutable proof that Andrew knew that Virginia had been trafficked, there’s nothing there. He had sex with a woman who was old enough to consent per UK law.

Has Virginia ever claimed that she told him, or he knew she was trafficked?

 

[Rayal]

My concern has been for not only these young girls that stepped forward, but also for the ones that have not done so yet. Maybe by the FBI arresting her, there will be hope or incentive for others to come forward as well. These people were no different than the common perverts that walk the street. They assumed that money would buy freedom to do anything they wanted, but my hope is that she will be prosecuted properly and she gives up all the names in her dirty black book. These girls have been through a lot in their life...they deserve justice.

 

[Iluvbertie]

This scandal is too sleazy for words. The sooner Prince Andrew leaves public life the better.

He left public life last November.

He has been seen occasional with family members, but in private situations not public ones.

 

[Alisa]

That photo of Kevin Spacey and Ghislaine Maxwell sitting in the throne room makes me want to vomit.

Ghislaine Maxwell was ruthless pimp for a sexual predator.
Kevin Spacey has sexually assaulted multiple men throughout his career- some as young as the age of 14.

If Prince Andrew associates with sexual predators, invites them into his home, his family home, and personal events. I ask the question what does that make him?!

They say "show me your friends and I will tell you who you are".

 

[Madame Verseau]

Gigi is a flight risk to be sure. I think the Feds didn't pick her up immediately is evidence gathering. I would not be surprised if the prosecution got warrants for emais, texts and phone. One DM story said Andrew was speaking to Maxwell last summer, which is probably why the Feds want to Andrew now.

 

[Durham]

The first 9 minutes or so is an interesting interview with an international lawyer:

 

[Eskimo]

That photo of Kevin Spacey and Ghislaine Maxwell sitting in the throne room makes me want to vomit.

Ghislaine Maxwell was ruthless pimp for a sexual predator.
Kevin Spacey has sexually assaulted multiple men throughout his career- some as young as the age of 14.

If Prince Andrew associates with sexual predators, invites them into his home, his family home, and personal events. I ask the question what does that make him?!

They say "show me your friends and I will tell you who you are".

It makes him guilty of having bad judgement when it come to people he associates with--hardly a crime

 

[Denville]

It makes him guilty of having bad judgement when it come to people he associates with--hardly a crime

Just because something isn't a crime does not mean that it is not very bad behavior. Andrew showed more than bad judgement. Hs interview showed his essential nature and it was pretty bad.. He associated with Epstein because the man provided him with business opportunities to make money and for Fergie and he provided ihim with girls.. and he did not show the slightest remorse that he had overlooked what was happening. Other people have commented on the highly sexualised decor, the clear indications that Epstein was a sexual predator and procuring girls.... He clearly did not notice people who were below him socially, they were just there to service his needs...

 

[Eskimo]

Just because something isn't a crime does not mean that it is not very bad behavior. Andrew showed more than bad judgement. Hs interview showed his essential nature and it was pretty bad.. He associated with Epstein because the man provided him with business opportunities to make money and for Fergie and he provided ihim with girls.. and he did not show the slightest remorse that he had overlooked what was happening. Other people have commented on the highly sexualised decor, the clear indications that Epstein was a sexual predator and procuring girls.... He clearly did not notice people who were below him socially, they were just there to service his needs...

And for that he deserves to be forgotten about with no public role. It, however, does not mean he needs to be locked up

 

[Denville]

And for that he deserves to be forgotten about with no public role. It, however, does not mean he needs to be locked up

No, I think he needs to lead a quiet life and keep away from dubious business friends. But he's not likely to be locked up, is he.....

 

[Madame Verseau]

Here is what could await Maxwell if tried and convicted. This is a US maximum security (aka "supermax") federal prison cell

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/inside-a-supermax-cell-11563400898

Given the lifestyle she's accustomed to, I can't see her toughing it out for 35 years. She won't get minimum security given the severity of the charges. I still think she'll talk if witness protection is offered. That means giving up her lifestyle and identity but keep her life. Staying at the Gray Bar Hotel can impact a person's perspective.

 

[Osipi]

Here is what could await Maxwell if tried and convicted. This is a US maximum security (aka "supermax") federal prison cell

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/inside-a-supermax-cell-11563400898

Given the lifestyle she's accustomed to, I can't see her toughing it out for 35 years. She won't get minimum security given the severity of the charges. I still think she'll talk if witness protection is offered. That means giving up her lifestyle and identity but keep her life. Staying at the Gray Bar Hotel can impact a person's perspective.

There is absolutely no sane reason why Ghislaine Maxwell would ever be put into a witness protection program. First reason being is that the charges are against *her* for *her* crimes and hence wouldn't be a witness in this case. Second reason that is obvious. Maxwell is a extremely high flight risk. Thirdly, they're going to be on their toes after what happened to Epstein while he was being held in Metropolitan Correctional Center in Lower Manhattan. These are obvious ones.

The Grey Hotel may even be a cut below what most people incarcerated would be for G Max. To my logic, she'd have to be totally or semi-totally isolated away from the general population. Why? Its been reported in many studies that the "bottom feeders" in a prison society are child molesters. Maxwell, with being sent to a women's facility (sounds logical to me) would not only be deemed a child molester but also be among women who would see her as molesting children that were female. That is what going to deem her a "double barreled bottom feeder" in prison for the rest of her life.

Its definitely not the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow for this woman.

 

[Susan D]

While it's good that Andrew Windsor has pulled out of his charities, it still bothers me that he is still called His Royal Highness the Duke of York and that he would still have his mansion out at Windsor, where the Queen Mum used to go on weekends. He is still too close to the British Government.

 

[Osipi]

While it's good that Andrew Windsor has pulled out of his charities, it still bothers me that he is still called His Royal Highness the Duke of York and that he would still have his mansion out at Windsor, where the Queen Mum used to go on weekends. He is still too close to the British Government.

None of what you point out is in any way reflective of the British government. As second son of the monarch, he is HRH The Prince Andrew, Duke of York.

As with Royal Lodge in Windsor, that's beyond the British government's reach also. Royal Lodge is part of the Crown Estates and In August 2003, The Duke of York was granted a lease agreement by the Crown Estate for 75 years. The property leased included the Royal Lodge, a Gardener's Cottage, the Chapel Lodge, six Lodge Cottages, and Police security accommodation in addition to 40 hectares of land.

It is what it is. Its my belief that the police security accommodation is referring to the security of the *property* and not Andrew's bodily self these days or maybe not. Not sure on what Andrew's security is now. *That* is paid by the taxpayer.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Unless Maxwell can provide unrefutable proof that Andrew knew that Virginia had been trafficked, there’s nothing there. He had sex with a woman who was old enough to consent per UK law.

Has Virginia ever claimed that she told him, or he knew she was trafficked?

I don't think this is correct for two reasons:

1. The standard isn't "irrefutable" proof of knowledge, but rather proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It may be sufficient for someone (Virginia Giuffre) to back up any claim Maxwell may make. There are certainly people who have been convicted with similar evidence.
2. In the Netflix documentary, an Epstein employee claimed that he witnessed Andrew having sex with Virginia Giuffre in the pool on Epstein's private island. The island is within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the age of consent is 18.

Andrew could still be in legal jeopardy.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Ghislaine Maxwell will not be granted bail. The reason stated is that she's an extreme flight risk. So that's a good thing. With the charges filed against her, I really don't believe that she'll even get remotely close to anything other than the sentencing to the full extent of the law and will spend the rest of her days in prison. Hope orange suits her.

Good point. I'm glad that it would be difficult for her to be granted bail - someone like Ghislaine needs to be locked up and should have been a long time ago.

I would presume she would have to have a separate cell as her case has been in the public eye a lot. I remember when EDL leader Tommy Robinson was last arrested, he had to be in a private isolated cell because he would attract too much attention in the mainstream prison otherwise.

 

[Osipi]

Andrew could still be in legal jeopardy.

Sure. He could be if there are any lawsuits filed against men that had sex with the women in Epstein and Maxwell's sex ring.

Not going to be a part of the case against Ghislaine Maxwell though. They're going after *her* for *her* crimes and those are:

"Maxwell is being charged on six counts: enticing minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, transportation of a minor with intent to engage in sexual activity, two conspiracy counts related to the prior charges, and two counts of perjury for allegedly lying under oath in a 2016 deposition related to Epstein"

Here is a link I've found where you can actually read the court filings in the case of the US vx. Ghislaine Maxwell.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6978832-U-S-v-Ghislaine-Maxwell-Indictment

 

[Jacknch]

Please note that posts completely unrelated to the topic of the thread have been removed. Please do try to be mindful of thread titles before posting comments to see if such comments actually relate to the topic rather than something else entirely.

 

[Madame Verseau]

DM just did a story on Maxwell's takedown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...laine-Maxwells-bolthole-hauled-handcuffs.html

I'm surprised they did a no knock warrant on her. That's usually done if the prosecutor convinced a judge that Maxwell has evidence at her hideout and the usual method ( courtesy call to turn herself in) would give her time to destroy it. Sometimes privileged persons of interest are given the latter option. I am also surprised of the armed presence of the cops unless in surveillance the LEOs (law enforcement officers) found something that made them think she would shoot it out with them.

 

[Osipi]

With someone like Maxwell, one doesn't want to take any kind of chances of things going south somehow. As the Feds have been building a case against her for quite a while now, the best way to go about actually nabbing her was with the element of surprise. Corner her and nab her.

She sure the heck wasn't going to turn herself in. She's be on the next flight out to somewhere. I don't think it had anything to do with a shootout or destroying evidence but rather they wanted to be 100% sure that they cornered her and got her into custody. ?