The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

Anyone - anyone who had an ounce of commonsense - who knew about the pending charges, and, later, the actual charges, or even the actual charges and the fact he was registered on the sex offender list, would have distanced themself from him to some extent at least, regardless of how close they were before and regardless of all the good works he had carried out before his criminal activities were found out.

I agree. It's why I mentioned that Andrew allowing himself to be seen and photographed with Epstein in public was not being too wise given his position vis-a-vis the monarch (or if I didn't say it outright that was what I was intending).

[Roslyn]

Prince Andrew tours Manhattan with billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein | New York Post

Prince Andrew talks of royal joy over Prince William’s wedding | Page Six


Perhaps we should ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos, et al. about Andrew's relationship with Epstein as at early 2011. It seems it was close enough for him to have spent four days with Epstein at his home in Manhatten.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

Prince Andrew tours Manhattan with billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein | New York Post

Prince Andrew talks of royal joy over Prince William’s wedding | Page Six

Perhaps we should ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos, et al. about Andrew's relationship with Epstein as at early 2011. It seems it was close enough for him to have spent four days with Epstein at his home in Manhatten.

Yep, it does sound close. I've amended my post.

[royal rob]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

Prince Andrew tours Manhattan with billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein | New York Post

Prince Andrew talks of royal joy over Prince William’s wedding | Page Six


Perhaps we should ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos, et al. about Andrew's relationship with Epstein as at early 2011. It seems it was close enough for him to have spent four days with Epstein at his home in Manhatten.

Goodness me. What a find Roslyn !


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[sndral]

Friendships begin and they end, some last a lifetime, many do not. There are many reasons friendships end, one being that the person you thought you knew is not as they seemed. If I became aware that someone I was a 'friend' with was a paedophile then I did not know that person as well as I thought and based on this new aspect of his personality our friendship would be at an end.
Does anyone think Andrew would have remained friend's with Epstein if Epstein became a pauper?
Andrew chose to continue his friendship with a paedophile I assume because in his mind the advantages and benefits from having a billionaire as a buddy who has luxurious homes you can stay in for free, private jets to get you to those homes and spare change to help out your ex wife was more important to Andrew than any outrage, disgust or empathy for the victims he should have felt when the truth was known. Andrew's personal greed and arrogance simply blinded him to reality.

[royal rob]

And you do have to ask did Andrew share his "interests"


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[GracieGiraffe]

Originally Posted by sndral

Friendships begin and they end, some last a lifetime, many do not. There are many reasons friendships end, one being that the person you thought you knew is not as they seemed. If I became aware that someone I was a 'friend' with was a paedophile then I did not know that person as well as I thought and based on this new aspect of his personality our friendship would be at an end.
Does anyone think Andrew would have remained friend's with Epstein if Epstein became a pauper?
Andrew chose to continue his friendship with a paedophile I assume because in his mind the advantages and benefits from having a billionaire as a buddy who has luxurious homes you can stay in for free, private jets to get you to those homes and spare change to help out your ex wife was more important to Andrew than any outrage, disgust or empathy for the victims he should have felt when the truth was known. Andrew's personal greed and arrogance simply blinded him to reality.

And this is the best we can say of Andrew - on top of this Virginia Roberts' allegations could be true.

Originally Posted by royal rob

And you do have to ask did Andrew share his "interests"


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The more social time they spent together, the more you have to wonder. Was their relationship a purely business one? The Post pieces found by Roslyn seem to suggest otherwise.

[US Royal Watcher]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

Prince Andrew tours Manhattan with billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein | New York Post

Prince Andrew talks of royal joy over Prince William’s wedding | Page Six


Perhaps we should ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos, et al. about Andrew's relationship with Epstein as at early 2011. It seems it was close enough for him to have spent four days with Epstein at his home in Manhatten.

It's a good question. While we are at it, I think we also ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos and the others about the nature of their relationship with Epstein? I was also struck by the way Page Six minimized Epstein's crimes.

This article may explain why the U.S. media has not really picked up this story.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher

It's a good question. While we are at it, I think we also ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos and the others about the nature of their relationship with Epstein? I was also struck by the way Page Six minimized Epstein's crimes.

This article may explain why the U.S. media has not really picked up this story.

In fairness, because this I do know about Charlie Rose, there is a New York social scene: every night dinner parties with glittering guest lists. One attends to make connections, make new contacts and friends. (Charlie Rose and Katie Couric as well as the other journalists would be vetting possible interviews, doing deep research in a way). Current events are discussed, the arts and the celebrity of the moment. More happens at these dinner parties than could ever happen at restaurants.

So are they close friends? I will suspend judgement. In the end it's not my place to say because I do not know. That they travel in a certain rarefied social circle - yes. That they may be close - sounds like. But I still am not willing to send negatives Andrew's way.

What is certain is we have a tragic situation. Victims aplenty of many kinds.

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher

It's a good question. While we are at it, I think we also ask Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, George Stephanopoulos and the others about the nature of their relationship with Epstein? I was also struck by the way Page Six minimized Epstein's crimes.

This article may explain why the U.S. media has not really picked up this story.

It is a good point. Someone posted information about Epstein's financial support for charities here. Those charities might have been turning a blind eye to some things, too.

We all like to think we'd do the ethical thing in a situation like this, or that we'd all figure out what Epstein was really doing with those girls. But Epstein may have been very good at compartmentalizing his life, so that no one saw the full extent of what was going on. Also, criminal behaviour always looks more harmless when it's camouflaged by wealth and the trappings of polite society.

An example is the story of Jian Ghomeshi, a popular CBC radio host in Canada. He apparently had a habit of sexually harassing women, choking his 'dates' and pulling their hair. This went on for years and years (he was in his late forties). Apparently, it was common knowledge in the radio/arts social circles that he frequented there was something 'weird' about Jian Ghomeshi and women. A woman at his workplace even filed a complaint...but nothing ever came of it. Apparently Jian Ghomeshi was too important to be removed from the show, because he 'was' the show. Also, he was very charming and personable on-air and even in person, apparently, until you went on a date with him and he started abusing you. He seemed so charming and nice, that apparently even the women he abused didn't feel they could speak up about his behaviour because most of the time he was so personable. It may have been the same way with Epstein...he looks sophisticated and he's rich, so a lot of people may have had an uncomfortable feeling about the women around him but not thought it was their place to question it.

If any of you saw that photo of Virginia Roberts with Andrew without knowing the backstory, would you think she looks like a 'sex slave'? She doesn't to me. She looks healthy and genuinely happy.

[Skippyboo]

Globetrotting over the world in private jets doesn't really go together with sex slave. Sex slave is more locked up in a basement of a house in Cleveland or the kidnapped girl who was living in the backyard shack getting raped for 18 years in California. Why not tell someone?


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[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Skippyboo

Globetrotting over the world in private jets doesn't really go together with sex slave. Sex slave is more locked up in a basement of a house in Cleveland or the kidnapped girl who was living in the backyard shack getting raped for 18 years in California. Why not tell someone?

I have a feeling the term "sex slave" is at least partly due to the nature of the legislation under which Epstein has been charged and the wording of the sections, partly sensationalism, and partly afterthought on the part of the girls when they became aware they could get money - well, more money - out of what Epstein had done.

The crimes relating to minors are strict liability crimes; consent is irrelevant. One can be a sex slave without being chained up for years and raped. The legislation only requires persuasion, inducement, or enticement, not knocking the person out cold and transporting them unconscious and threatening them with violence if they don't do what they're told.

[AfricanAUSSIE]

Disgusting! I wonder what the chances are for guilty parties to be brought to justice? Given past history on such cases, very close to nil I'd say.

[Queen Camilla]

Andrew may have remained friends with Epstein because Epstein might have used the excuse:
'The girl lied, she told me she was 20.”

The 18 year old Kentucky man with a criminal record that went on the lam with his 13 year old girl friend is using the same excuse. His mother said he told her the girl was 19.

Do you trust your friend or do you trust an unknown?
(I am not defending Epstein in any way.)

[royal rob]

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla

Andrew may have remained friends with Epstein because Epstein might have used the excuse:
'The girl lied, she told me she was 20.”

The 18 year old Kentucky man with a criminal record that went on the lam with his 13 year old girl friend is using the same excuse. His mother said he told her the girl was 19.

Do you trust your friend or do you trust an unknown?
(I am not defending Epstein in any way.)

Not many 12 year olds look like 20 year olds
I'm over some people blaming those very young and in most cases poor girls instead of the weathly older manipulating men


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[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe

Jeffrey Epstein is accused of having sex with children as young as 12.. [...]

You yourself used the correct word: accused.

Mr Epstein was convicted for felony solicitation of prostitution. All other possible alleged crimes and misdemeanors thrown to him are, for so far, what they are: accusations.

These days you can even accuse public persons, the very day after they have died. Then suddenly claimants pop up that the just-died person would have "raped" three decades ago or something. That is easy, the person is dead and can not defend himself anymore (the late Lord Brittan) who died 6 days ago). Result: smear on a man's grave.

[Zonk]

Originally Posted by royal rob

Not many 12 year olds look like 20 year olds
I'm over some people blaming those very young and in most cases poor girls instead of the weathly older manipulating men


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why do you keep referencing a 12 year old? has Andrew been accused of having relations with a 12 year old? Because if he has, I must have missed it. Can you provide the source of your accusation?

While some of us [myself included] are questioning some of the facts, I don't seem to recall anyone blaming any of the victims and giving the likes of Epstein a pass on anything that he has done. What we are trying to do is trying to balance the tabloid like headlines with the facts that out there, the righteous indignation, the calls to hang Andrew before we know all the facts, etc. I mean, when did the Daily Mail become a legitimate news sources. Have I bumped my head?

Many of us realize that rape, the sexual exploitation and victimization of the young is a serious issue and crime that needs to be addressed. Let it be known, however, that for myself, I am getting a little tired of the suggestion that because we ask a question or state an opinion that questions the veracity of charges, we are blaming the victim, making excuses for Andrew, or absolving the like of Epstein for his convicted crimes.

And for the record, it is possible for a young girl to pretend to be older. I just found out recently that while while i was in college [many many years ago], my younger sister was dating someone who was my age. She is a 8 years younger than I. While I wouldn't say that she looked anywhere near my age, she certainly didn't look 13.....I was away at college and my parents were going thru a divorce, and she was doing her thing because no one was paying attention. Trust me....while there aren't a hundreds of thousands of 12 year old pretending to be 18 or above, all it takes it just one.

[royal rob]

I never said Andrew did but there 12 year old girls used in the whole disgusting mess.


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[Zonk]

Originally Posted by royal rob

I never said Andrew did but there 12 year old girls used in the whole disgusting mess.


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While it is truly disgusting, why don't we just focus on Andrew and the girls who are apart of this civil case.

[royal rob]

Because they are apart of this case too as far as I can see.
It's a fact that Epstein only got the tiniest slap on the hand and everything was easily covered up. It's disgusting and Andrew , Clinton and anyone else involved should be made to pay.
But not the girls.


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