The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by sophie25

It's always amazed me that the Queen herself seemed to allow this to happen ever since he was a child. No one who experienced this ever said that he was chastised by her when he was growing up which is really appalling. Unfortunately I do believe that she probably did tell him that he could eventually return to public life and her walking in with him at Philip's memorial service was the first attempt at this. I think that rather than telling him to take a long hard look at himself she merely tried to make the consequences of his actions go away.

To be fair, Andrew was the only one of her children or adult grandchildren who did not attend with a spouse. In that sense, he was her logical escort.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by sophie25

Trump doesn't seem to have been too involved in this mess to be fair to him. Yes he knew Epstein( who in high society New York didn't?) but there is no evidence that he gallavanted about with him in the way others did. Bill Clinton especially was on that dreadful island and I think was also in Buckingham Palace the night Andrew gave the tour involving Kevin Spacey and Maxwell where those two sat on the royal thrones and were photographed having a laugh doing so. There was also an extremely young looking girl, practically a child by the looks of it, featured in those photographs which adds to the unease of the occasion. Epstein, Maxwell and Spacey were/are all sex offenders of underage minors and yet there was the Duke of York entertaining them in the main residence of the BRF. Andrew undoubtedly had a penchant for hanging out with perverts so is he surprised that a great many people believe that he is also one of them? If Andrew thinks that his downfall is purely down to Virginia Roberts then he might want to think again.

I wouldn't read the unsealed legal deposition of that 13 year old who accused Trump of brutally violating her in Epstein's NYC home if I were you.

Our dearly missed Osipi emailed it to me and it shocked me to the core that Trump got away with it AND was able to have it suppressed.

Look it up online and read it if you dare.

Bill Clinton is a church deacon in comparison. ETA: There IS video of Trump "gallivanting" and partying with Epstein, and crowing about his pal's penchant for very young girls.

There is nothing of Andrew except the photo with a grinning VG, who certainly appeared young but definitely was no child.

[ada]

I agree with Lily Flo [Post 5282], that's a normal size bath

[Leopoldine]

Originally Posted by Denville

why not then? Do you seriously think that Trump or Bill C just had a glass of milk with these girls if they met them through Epstein

Neither man has been publicly accused by a woman who was associated with Epstein, is what I mean. With The Duke of York, you have an accuser who went public, complete with photos charting her association with Epstein, Ghislaine and The Duke himself. Virginia also has a top lawyer in David Boies.

Today there was some kerfuffle in the papers that seems to lend credence to the Andrew/Virginia/Ghislaine photograph.

[Granada]

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Granada

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

[HenRach Dominion]

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

[Leopoldine]

Originally Posted by sophie25

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

The King's support could be about the money. If there is a chance that the settlement decision could be overturned and a few million dollars makes its way back into royal coffers, I think he would approve.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by HenRach Dominion

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

He's not going to go back to a royal role

[Granada]

Sophie25, Did not know that about Charles. Andrew has been long regarded as a boorish and entitled buffoon. And that was before the Epstein disasters blew up, I believe in 2010.
Andrew's "situation" is doing NOTHING to improve Charles reputation to handle rogue and detrimental family members and The Crown.
It reflects badly on him, and by extension, The Institution.

The Queen *kinda* got a pass as She was his Mother. It has long been assumed that Charles and Andrew were not close anyway, so for Charles not to shut down Andrew allegedly wanting to reopen the lawsuit and settlement is simple bewildering ! To what end ? Andrew wants to rehabilitate his *image* ...... Cant someone tell him that is IMPOSSIBLE .

Doesn't Charles realize the bad press this encourages ? To lump in the with the OTHER never-ending press from another bitter jealous rogue royal across the Seas ?

Oh, and I will add "Soap Opera" like. Just what The Famiily-Firm needs. This potential "reopening" of a sordid, salacious and disgusting chapter in Andrew's foolish and morally challenged life should be over.
Accept some responsibility for palling around with loathsome degenerates and count the many UNEARNED blessings you enjoy in life.

King Charles, I'm expecting more of you to rein in these destabilizing losers in your immediate Family.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Granada

Sophie25, Did not know that about Charles. Andrew has been long regarded as a boorish and entitled buffoon. And that was before the Epstein disasters blew up, I believe in 2010.
Andrew's "situation" is doing NOTHING to improve Charles reputation to handle rogue and detrimental family members and The Crown.
It reflects badly on him, and by extension, The Institution.

The Queen *kinda* got a pass as She was his Mother. It has long been assumed that Charles and Andrew were not close anyway, so for Charles not to shut down Andrew allegedly wanting to reopen the lawsuit and settlement is simple bewildering ! To what end ? Andrew wants to rehabilitate his *image* ...... Cant someone tell him that is IMPOSSIBLE .

Doesn't Charles realize the bad press this encourages ? To lump in the with the OTHER never-ending press from another bitter jealous rogue royal across the Seas ?

Oh, and I will add "Soap Opera" like. Just what The Famiily-Firm needs. This potential "reopening" of a sordid, salacious and disgusting chapter in Andrew's foolish and morally challenged life should be over.
Accept some responsibility for palling around with loathsome degenerates and count the many UNEARNED blessings you enjoy in life.

King Charles, I'm expecting more of you to rein in these destabilizing losers in your immediate Family.

I totally agree. I was actually surprised that Andrew was allowed to walk with the family to church at Christmas but I presumed it was purely because it was a family occasion. I do hope that Charles wasn't using it to test the water with the public so to speak, baring in mind that the crowds there were die hard royalists so didn't represent the public at large. I also rolled my eyes at Andrew engaging with the crowd rather than just waving and walking on, he is desperate to return to public life and it shows. I get the impression that William won't tolerate him but the King actually might, I hope I am wrong.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by sophie25

Great Post, couldn't agree more. The only thing that bothers me is I have read that Charles knows that Andrew is trying to overturn his decision to settle and apparently supports it. That's baffling.

and what evidence is there of this? Im ssure that Charles is aware that even if Andrew gets exonerated to some extent he is tainted and cant work again

[Granada]

Denville, I don't believe Sophie25 was saying "He's not allowed to go to Church now"....it was just another attempt by Andrew to get his face out there on the very public and prestigious Christmas Day Family " walkabout ".

I believe, If it meant so much he could have gone to the earlier Church Service anyway. I think Charles attends both. The Queen was known as a woman of GREAT faith. Allegedly, Charles is quite spiritual and interested in many different Faiths. Never heard that about Andrew though.

He wasn't even included in his daughter Beatrice's Wedding Picture, the gorgeous one in front of the Church with JUST The couple and The Queen and Philip that was released to the Public either. I'm sure that rankled him.

Then, when he escorted The Queen at Prince Philips Memorial Service, it certainly sent off bad vibes and optics. I have read conflicting accounts.
The Queen WANTED Andrew to fully escort her to her Seat OR, The Dean of Westminster was supposed to TAKE the Queen to her Seat, after She walked into the Church with Andrew.
But Andrew brazenly defied that plan, and escorted her to her Seat.

What's true ??? I have no idea.

All I can say, if Andrew sees an opportunity to get his "snout in the trough"..... he jumps at it. Controversy be damned.

[HenRach Dominion]

Well, it appears that HRH The Duke of York isn't the most hated member of the British Royal Family so he may conflate that will actual affection so he's shooting his shot. People have short memories, and alleged sexual predators and their enablers getting off scot free is as common as a day ending in y.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Granada

I just don't get Andrew. Can't Charles just say enough ! I am King and you will have zero public role ?

Why does he keep "rattling the cage"? Its not just the photo with Virginia or her allegations. And decades long association with Pedo Epstein and procurer Ghislaine Maxwell. There are pictures of the three of them together from Buckingham Palace to Balmoral. They were CLOSE. He THEN sealed his fate with the train wreck Emily Maitlis Interview, ALL BY HIMSELF.

On top of his known arrogance and treatment of others.

So now we have never-ending Sussex Circus, this debacle fills and fuels the Media. Why the York Girls or Edward and Anne just don't stage an "Intervention" to convince Andrew that his public life is over I don't know. It certainly does The Monarchy no good.

Charles has supposedly let Fergie back in to attend private Family Events like Christmas at Sandringham as a guest. How many olive branches does Charles have ?

Why doesnt Andrew just enjoy his uber lavish lifestyle in retirement ? Travel, play golf and enjoy his grandkids ?

Personally, I'm not very hopeful how Andrew and Harry seem to just be running roughshod over Charles now with their own personal issues and grievances playing out in Public.
BOTH need to be ignored and sidelined.

Andrew you settled. Its over, nothing good can come from opening that Pandora's Box.

His public life IS already over - and has been for two years. His family life, however, is not, so, of course, he is still invited to family occasions and should be (continuted to be) allowed to attend church with his family as well and not be relegated to a 'different service' just so the public won't see him.

[Granada]

Somebody, I completely understand, but I still think Andrew laying low or lower would be beneficial right now, to Charles and The Firms attempts to distance themselves for his PR disasters.
The "Honeymoon Period" for Charles and the very high public goodwill shown to him after the Queens death might start to dissipate. How much ? Who knows. The Sussex allegations and drama isn't helping either.

People are worried about sky high heat, electric, and food bills. On top of escalations in Ukraine. Having uber rich and privileged "Royals" perceived as being decadent and out of touch doesn't help. That's Andrew.

Luckily, The Wales Family, inspite of H & M best efforts, aren't really tarnished by the continuous grenades being thrown across the Pond.

Its just that Charles IS more vulnerable to bad press and optics. He doesn't need the Andrew Pandora-Epstein Box being reopened. Charles has never been viewed as forceful, EXCEPT FOR Camilla, saying She and the relationship was "non negotiable".
William is viewed as stronger and sterner stuff, than his Father is.

He will be 75 next November. I just feel bad for "these" controversies surrounding his new Reign, that's all. Caused by Andrew and The Sussex's.

[Moonmaiden23]

If Andrew is convinced that he did nothing wrong, and was made to take one for the Team because he was viewed as a high value target by VG and the others, it makes sense that he refuses to go quietly.

He will probably go to his grave trying to rehabilitate his reputation.

He refuses to face the problem of the stroll in Central Park with the late creep. Or his disastrous ham handed interview.

If Andrew had spent his life building a reputation as a generally generous, kind and down to earth Royal he would have enough people in the press and public to help him now.

But he didn't, and he doesn't. Other than his loyal and adoring ex wife and children he is alone.

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by HenRach Dominion

Maybe the British Royal Family needs more bodies on the ground, and getting HRH The Duke of York publicly exonerated is a step toward restoring him to a royal role?

Andrew will never be publicly exonerated because he can never undo the fact that the public now knows how friendly he was with a sex offender after he was convicted. We all heard him say that he stayed at a convicted sex offender's house rather than the British Embassy. We heard him say that he didn't regret that friendship. We also heard his ridiculous reasons why he couldn't have been at Tramps nightclub, how he couldn't sweat, how the infamous photo could be a fake because those aren't his fingers blah, blah. It almost doesn't matter what happens now with Ms Guiffre because he can't exonerate himself from his own stupid words and actions.

I would be stunned if Charles even considers allowing Andrew any kind of official role because he must know from the polls that the British public would go bonkers and Charles doesn't want the wrath of the nation on his head. I can't see William standing for it either - he definitely wouldn't want the future of the BRF to be tainted by a dodgy royal uncle swaggering around in public.

[Denville]

Charles is not going to encourage or allow Andrew to have a public role again. THat doesn't mean that Andrew must spend the rest of his life completely in seclusion nor that CH might not be a bit relieved if his brother were partly exonerated. His behavour was bad, but not that bad.

[King of the Jungle]

I presume that Andrew's family believe him to be telling the truth and that he has a fair chance of clearing his name.
He will never escape the fact that he associated with Epstein.