The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[wbenson]

I think we have the mystery development. It's the Telegraph's front page story. The photograph is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I do not think this is going to be the total vindication he was hoping for.

Exclusive: The photo that ‘clears Prince Andrew’ over bath sex

The image shows the bath in which the Duke is alleged to have engaged in sexual activity with a teenage girl.

Two of Maxwell’s acquaintances are sitting in the bath, fully clothed, wearing makeshift masks depicting the Duke and Virginia Giuffre.

They posed for the image in an effort to prove that the bath was too small for the kind of behaviour alleged by Ms Giuffre, and planned to use it as part of her defence during her sex trafficking trial.

[Lilyflo]

Oh My Giddy Aunt!!!

I've laughed solidly for about five minutes as I'm imagining all the jokes and memes that will be generated by that ridiculous photo! It's also a failure of imagination to state that the bath is too small for any hanky-panky.

[Durham]

Well, that's got to be the most bizarre Telegraph front page ever. It's the sort of thing you'd expect to find on the front cover of the Star or the Sun.

[yukari]

I can't decide which one is the most bizarre: the fact that anyone would posed for this photo or that Telegraph put it up for their front page (yup, it's not a joke) or that anyone can genuinely believe that it worths to be use as legit defence for a trial.

[Granada]

If dim and delusional Andrew is resting his "rehabilitation" on that, he is even worse than I think.
Its over. Done. There is no coming back.

The Emily Maitlis Interview sealed your fate. You expressed zero concern or remorse, you fool. You STILL visited a convicted Paedophile after he served prison time, because incredulously you said that ending the friendship should be done in person, not over the phone.
Go away.....

Charles's REALLY needs to lay down the law and explain to Andrew there is no path back. What does it take for Andrew to realize he is a pariah ?

[Denville]

Hes not a pariah. Hes a stupid arrogant man who led a louche sex life, and stupidly and arrogantly ketpt up a friendship with a sex offender. HE will never work again, but he is still part of his family and has friends.

[Granada]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Denville. I see him as a pariah.
For the record, I believe he knew exactly what Epstein was up to and could care less.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Granada

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Denville. I see him as a pariah.
For the record, I believe he knew exactly what Epstein was up to and could care less.

I think this too. He's never had any interest far less concern for the welfare for anyone he believes to be inferior to him which I think is most people. He gave terrible abuse to royal staff and others since he was a very young man so those girls around Epstein were, I'm sure, treated with similar contempt. It's always amazed me that the Queen herself seemed to allow this to happen ever since he was a child. No one who experienced this ever said that he was chastised by her when he was growing up which is really appalling. Unfortunately I do believe that she probably did tell him that he could eventually return to public life and her walking in with him at Philip's memorial service was the first attempt at this. I think that rather than telling him to take a long hard look at himself she merely tried to make the consequences of his actions go away.

[Durham]

There can be no public role even if new facts come to light that disprove some of the more lurid accusations. The way he conducted his relationship with Epstein & the tone deafness of the interview have sealed his fate.

He would be best advised to be honest about his mistakes, publicly accept with grace & understanding that his former life of duty is over & try to atone in some private way.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Granada

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Denville. I see him as a pariah.
For the record, I believe he knew exactly what Epstein was up to and could care less.

I dont think he did, because he didn't care much about the lower orders, but frakly Epstein had a lot of rich and powerful men friends who probalby acted the same way, but were not named as Andrew was.
As I understand it, Bill Clinton and Trump were also friends of Epsteins, and probalby made use of him, but they are not being castigated in the same way.
And if he were indeed a pariah, virtually noone would care to associate with him. I dont believe that is the case.

[Leopoldine]

Originally Posted by Denville

I dont think he did, because he didn't care much about the lower orders, but frakly Epstein had a lot of rich and powerful men friends who probalby acted the same way, but were not named as Andrew was.
As I understand it, Bill Clinton and Trump were also friends of Epsteins, and probalby made use of him, but they are not being castigated in the same way.
And if he were indeed a pariah, virtually noone would care to associate with him. I dont believe that is the case.

Not one known Epstein-associated woman has come forward to point a finger at the former presidents and say they were abused by or were expected to be intimate with them. There was a photo of one of Epstein's female travel companions giving Clinton a shoulder massage in an airport waiting room, but that's it.

[Denville]

why not then? Do you seriously think that Trump or Bill C just had a glass of milk with these girls if they met them through Epstein

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Durham

There can be no public role even if new facts come to light that disprove some of the more lurid accusations. The way he conducted his relationship with Epstein & the tone deafness of the interview have sealed his fate.

He would be best advised to be honest about his mistakes, publicly accept with grace & understanding that his former life of duty is over & try to atone in some private way.

He is incapable of doing what you suggest I'm afraid.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by sophie25

He is incapable of doing what you suggest I'm afraid.

He certainly seems to come across as arrogant & lacking in critical introspection. So on the face of it yes I agree it does seem unlikely.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Denville

why not then? Do you seriously think that Trump or Bill C just had a glass of milk with these girls if they met them through Epstein

Trump doesn't seem to have been too involved in this mess to be fair to him. Yes he knew Epstein( who in high society New York didn't?) but there is no evidence that he gallavanted about with him in the way others did. Bill Clinton especially was on that dreadful island and I think was also in Buckingham Palace the night Andrew gave the tour involving Kevin Spacey and Maxwell where those two sat on the royal thrones and were photographed having a laugh doing so. There was also an extremely young looking girl, practically a child by the looks of it, featured in those photographs which adds to the unease of the occasion. Epstein, Maxwell and Spacey were/are all sex offenders of underage minors and yet there was the Duke of York entertaining them in the main residence of the BRF. Andrew undoubtedly had a penchant for hanging out with perverts so is he surprised that a great many people believe that he is also one of them? If Andrew thinks that his downfall is purely down to Virginia Roberts then he might want to think again.

[Lilyflo]

I've read before that Virginia Guiffre had the original photo that 'friends' of Andrew say is a fake and tomorrow's Mail on Sunday has more information about its authenticity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ffre-real.html

[sophie25]

Could Charles' reign have gotten off to a worse start? The Harry thing is bad enough but now the Andrew drama is taking off again just when we all thought that ship had sailed.

[Sionevar]

Originally Posted by Durham

He certainly seems to come across as arrogant & lacking in critical introspection. So on the face of it yes I agree it does seem unlikely.

He is also not a smart man, if he seriously thinks the thing about the size of the bath is 'proof' of his innocence. I actually laughed when I read it, then checked to make sure it wasn't April 1st.

Does he not have people around him who look at info like this and say 'sorry, that won't work', or do they try to tell him, and he just doesn't listen?

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by sophie25

Could Charles' reign have gotten off to a worse start? The Harry thing is bad enough but now the Andrew drama is taking off again just when we all thought that ship had sailed.

I think (and hope) that any more 'Andrew drama' will actually increase empathy and support for Charles as long as he doesn't cave in and allow Andrew any official roles, which seems unlikely.

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by Sionevar

He is also not a smart man, if he seriously thinks the thing about the size of the bath is 'proof' of his innocence. I actually laughed when I read it, then checked to make sure it wasn't April 1st.

Does he not have people around him who look at info like this and say 'sorry, that won't work', or do they try to tell him, and he just doesn't listen?

I suspect he avoids having critical people around him and if anyone does try to advise him, he probably wouldn't listen because he has such an inflated opinion of himself and his attributes. He's had far too many years of doing and saying just what he wants, while being held up as a virtual saint by his ex-wife and doted on by his mother.