The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[Osipi]

As to the incident that allegedly took place in Maxwell's London home, its not a crime against Andrew but the implications sure ain't good for his reputation and his words from the interview would be blown out of the water. Met Police declined to pursue the matter.

No matter what happened or what Maxwell spills the beans on when it comes to Andrew, the damage is already done to the man's reputation and has deemed him to graze in pastures for the rest of his life with no public roles whatsoever. That's punishment enough for me unless someone else prosecutes him for an actual crime or Guiffre instigates a civil court case against Andrew.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Denville

How woudl she know though? She may have set it up, she may have told Virginia to have sex with him, but she's not in the bedroom. The most she could say is that Andrew told her that they'd had sex and even then..

But even for Maxwell to confirm that whole night out at Tramp nightclub etc happened would be 2 people (Giuffre and Maxwell) saying it did v's Andrew's 'I can't remember'.I think most people believe Virginia Giuffre anyway but it certainly would be a further blow to Andrew.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by sophie25

It will be interesting if Maxwell confirms that Andrew did have sex with Virginia Roberts, can you imagine the outcry?

Andrew has maintained his innocence in this matter, I never watched the interview, as to whether he explicitly said he’d never met Roberts or just skirted around the topic of her in general.

If Maxwell confirms the night in London took place, it’s nothing that we don’t already know. If I’m right Ms Roberts was of legal age in the U.K. at the time the incident happened, therefore Andrew has no crime to answer for unless Maxwell has some concrete proof to say the situation between Andrew and Roberts wasn’t consensual.

(This isn’t me saying what, if anything, that happened between Andrew and Roberts was right in the eyes of the law or not. I’m just speaking plain fact.)

What would make life very difficult for Andrew is if Maxwell talked about any situation Andrew or Fergie for that matter, found themselves in that we didn’t already know about.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Andrew has maintained his innocence in this matter, I never watched the interview, as to whether he explicitly said he’d never met Roberts or just skirted around the topic of her in general.

If Maxwell confirms the night in London took place, it’s nothing that we don’t already know. If I’m right Ms Roberts was of legal age in the U.K. at the time the incident happened, therefore Andrew has no crime to answer for unless Maxwell has some concrete proof to say the situation between Andrew and Roberts wasn’t consensual.

(This isn’t me saying what, if anything, that happened between Andrew and Roberts was right in the eyes of the law or not. I’m just speaking plain fact.)

What would make life very difficult for Andrew is if Maxwell talked about any situation Andrew or Fergie for that matter, found themselves in that we didn’t already know about.

Virginia Giuffre was trafficked which discounts her age in the eyes of the law. Men having sex with trafficked women are commiting a crime.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by sophie25

Virginia Giuffre was trafficked which discounts her age in the eyes of the law. Men having sex with trafficked women are commiting a crime.

Whilst Epstein was arrested on trafficking charges, and evidence to some degree was found currently (notwithstanding Ms Maxwells arrest) we have nothing to suggest Virgina was trafficked other than her statement to that fact.

Again I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just sticking to the facts of what we know and don't know.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Whilst Epstein was arrested on trafficking charges, and evidence to some degree was found currently (notwithstanding Ms Maxwells arrest) we have nothing to suggest Virgina was trafficked other than her statement to that fact.

Again I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just sticking to the facts of what we know and don't know.

What she says was her experience matches almost identically to tens of other woman who said they were forced into sex with older men by Epstein when they were very young. Andrew's conduct was illegal at worst and sleazy at best, either way he is a disgrace. Virginia was only 5 years older than Beatrice.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by sophie25

What she says was her experience matches almost identically to tens of other woman who said they were forced into sex with older men by Epstein when they were very young. Andrew's conduct was illegal at worst and sleazy at best, either way he is a disgrace. Virginia was only 5 years older than Beatrice.

I'm sorry I don't understand your point?

I'm not saying what Virgina and others have said didn't happen. I'm just sticking to the facts, and no evidence has been produced and nobody charged to prove in a court of law what happened to those women is true as of yet.

We don't know what Andrew did or didn't do for sure, so as this forums has rules against the discussion of rumours an such I tend to actively stay away from doing so.

I also don't believe in bringing Andrew's children into a situation they don't belong in. Whilst I hate to admit it, men have relations and relationships with women younger than their own adult children all the time (again before someone jumps on me, not condoning this, just saying it happens).

[MARG]

Personally, I smell a very large rat. Ms Maxwell knows an awful lot about Epstein's lifestyle, even shared it so one has to wonder . . . she has been highly visible ever since Epstein was arrested yet she was not.

Out of the blue William Barr, US Attorney General tweeted that AG of SDNY Geoffrey Berman had resigned. Seeing this he tweeted that not only had he not resigned but that he had no intention of doing so. Barr said okay, I'll get the President to fire him and replace him with a Trump ally who has never tried a case.

Managing to force Mr Berman to resign Barr is left with his Deputy AG. Ooops, the new AG has to be confirmed by the Senate so no quick turnaround. But why now, 5 months before an election? There are no trials of great note on the docket so why. Suddenly, out of the blue, Ms Maxwell has been arrested.

Hmm. I hope she is in excellent physical and mental health because she is the living repository of all Epstein's perversions and the great and the good of like mind.

,

[Susan D]

This scandal is too sleazy for words. The sooner Prince Andrew leaves public life the better.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Susan D

The sooner Prince Andrew leaves public life the better.

When was he last seen in public on behalf of the royal family?

[sndral]

Originally Posted by MARG

Personally, I smell a very large rat. Ms Maxwell knows an awful lot about Epstein's lifestyle, even shared it so one has to wonder . . . she has been highly visible ever since Epstein was arrested yet she was not.

Out of the blue William Barr, US Attorney General tweeted that AG of SDNY Geoffrey Berman had resigned. Seeing this he tweeted that not only had he not resigned but that he had no intention of doing so. Barr said okay, I'll get the President to fire him and replace him with a Trump ally who has never tried a case.

Managing to force Mr Berman to resign Barr is left with his Deputy AG. Ooops, the new AG has to be confirmed by the Senate so no quick turnaround. But why now, 5 months before an election? There are no trials of great note on the docket so why. Suddenly, out of the blue, Ms Maxwell has been arrested.

Hmm. I hope she is in excellent physical and mental health because she is the living repository of all Epstein's perversions and the great and the good of like mind.

,

The pandemic most likely slowed the timing of the arrest down. In Federal felony prosecutions you need to convene a grand jury and the prosecutor has to present evidence, including witness testimony, to the jurors to get the indictment that starts the case. To conduct a grand jury you need around 20 jurors, prosecutors, court reporter, bailiff, security outside, witnesses in and out, etc.. I actually wonder how they managed since NY has been such a COVID hotspot & was locked down early.

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by rob2008

The threat of being questioned is a greater, more effective and more realistic punishment for a Prince of the blood. He is surely not going to end up in court. The British state will do everything in its power to prevent this from happening. It is unrealistic and limiting to only aim for something that is not going to happen. Leave the threat hanging over him for the rest of his life. For someone accustomed to a life of arrogance and utter entitlement, it makes more impact to know you MIGHT be extradited. That pressure seems the best way to protect the British monarchy and ensure Andrew receives due punishment. He gets to retire to house arrest in a big house in the country with Fergie and the bees and no chance of luxury air travel for fear of being extradited outside the UK. These limits add up to real hardship.

My firm belief that Andrew should agree to be questioned as a witness is nothing to do with any punishment. For starters we don't know if he's done anything that warrants punishment and secondly, assisting those abused women to achieve justice is something Andrew should be very keen to do.

If he's done nothing wrong then he should have nothing to fear because he's a high profile man from a very powerful family. Nobody's going to spray him with mace, taser him or press their knee on his neck. All he has to do is answer questions as a witness about what he saw and heard when he was with Epstein and Maxwell or at their properties. He'll have 1st class lawyers with him so what is stopping him from helping those women?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Susan D

This scandal is too sleazy for words. The sooner Prince Andrew leaves public life the better.

Prince Andrew left public life on November 20, 2019.

"The terse, grammatically-challenged statement from HRH The Duke of York declaring his decision to withdraw from public life late on November 20 – more specifically, his retreat from some 200 charities and attendant royal duties – was a curiously revealing Royal Family bombshell in several ways.Nov 21, 2019"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/guymart.../#465c2ede3316

[Madame Verseau]

Exile from public life is not enough. If Maxwell provides testimony and evidence of Andrew's culpability he needs to answer for it. Stalling has already damaged the image of the BRF for perceptions on not making Andrew to face the music.

[Osipi]

Even if Maxwell "told all" about Andrew and perhaps even provided video tape of Andrew's encounter with Guiffre, it wouldn't be pertinent to the case filed in SDNY at this time against Maxwell.

Any other kind of "punishment" other that whatever has been done already would actually have to be based on Andrew committing a crime. To my knowledge, there aren't any allegations at this time of a criminal offense against Andrew.

Now if Virginia Guiffre were to file a civil suit against Andrew in the US, it would have to be proven that the allegation against Andrew is a crime in both the US and the UK and be punishable by at least one year in jail in order for the UK to extradite Andrew to the US for prosecution. That can get kind of tricky.

The main focus now is on Ghislaine Maxwell as it rightly should be. Nothing is going to be done to Andrew just because he's making the BRF look bad. There will have to be a conviction of something beyond a reasonable doubt for that to happen.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

Exile from public life is not enough. If Maxwell provides testimony and evidence of Andrew's culpability he needs to answer for it. Stalling has already damaged the image of the BRF for perceptions on not making Andrew to face the music.

What stalling has been done? From Andrews own words he’s offered to cooperate and these offers have been ignored. Whether that’s true or not we won’t know but it’s a lot of he said she said right now. Currently Andrew has nothing to face the music for legally, so the BRF is not on the wrong in any regard as far as I see.

———————————-


However, Andrew is in the wrong for allowing this to happen, the man has no scruples.

https://twitter.com/queenviktoriah/s...398515712?s=21

[Madame Verseau]

The problem is others are starting to weigh in, choice or not

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-arrest.html

Andrew's mess may become a political football; but in the end this is not going away for the Windsors.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Ghislaine strikes me as the sort of person who'll spill secrets to get on bail or an earlier release. It will be interesting to see how this'll pan out and if Andrew will be involved further.

[Osipi]

Ghislaine Maxwell will not be granted bail. The reason stated is that she's an extreme flight risk. So that's a good thing. With the charges filed against her, I really don't believe that she'll even get remotely close to anything other than the sentencing to the full extent of the law and will spend the rest of her days in prison. Hope orange suits her.

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree with you that Ms. Maxwell will not be granted bail for the exact reason you stated.

What I will never understand is why she didn't leave the U.S. immediately after Epstein was arrested?

I am happy she is behind bars where she belongs.