The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[Lilyflo]

I keep hearing about this huge royal workload but most of it is voluntary & can be trimmed to fit the number of people available to do it. Yes Andrew might have been busy but his work wasn't essential to the monarchy (and neither was Harry's).

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Lilyflo

I keep hearing about this huge royal workload but most of it is voluntary & can be trimmed to fit the number of people available to do it. Yes Andrew might have been busy but his work wasn't essential to the monarchy (and neither was Harry's).

There is relatively little work that is absolutely essential.. Reading boxes, opening parliament, speaking to the Prime MInister. But over a long period, the RF has become involved iwht many charities, in order to show that they are doing soemthing for the community and not just sitting around eating bonbons. Yes I think that the days of that work are passing but for now, the working Royals have patronages and have been committed to showing up and drawing attention to the charities' work. Harry's work WAS important as he was involved with the Commonwealth, which has the Monarch as its head.. and which involves a lot of foreign travel and keeping up a connextion between Britain and its commonwealth countries. So for H and Meghan to walk out on it was not IMO well done.

I don't think you can abruptly trim all the work.. Harry and Meg have retained a few charities and have not given tehm up as yet. If this had happened over time, naturally it would be one thing but it has all happened abruptly...So I do wonder if there is a door being left open.. either for Andrew to take up some work in a few years or perhaps the RF are hoping that H and Meg will return

[Helen.CH]

So, we have Andrew back to the scene. I am surprised!
If this is a test, it went wrong.
Some people really feel being mocked by HM, as she sends Andrew to bring her personal message to a foreign ambassador! He is iff duty, aha, ok!
And why on earth is Sarah there, ugh, bad choice.

[Alison H]

It depends what's classed as essential to the monarchy. No, the monarchy is not going to fall because a senior member of the Royal Family doesn't visit Bloggs & Co's factory or open XTown's new community centre, but that's all part and parcel of what the Royal Family does. The more you chip away at anything, the less it becomes.


I don't know what the way forward with Prince Andrew is. All he's actually been proven guilty of is having very bad taste in friends. Maybe he's done far worse or maybe he hasn't: we don't know the answer, and, unless either he admits he's lying or Virginia Giuffre admits that she's lying, we're never going to. He's certainly not the only public figure to have been accused of sexual misconduct or to have had very questionable friends. I don't know how this moves on.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Alison H

It depends what's classed as essential to the monarchy. No, the monarchy is not going to fall because a senior member of the Royal Family doesn't visit Bloggs & Co's factory or open XTown's new community centre, but that's all part and parcel of what the Royal Family does. The more you chip away at anything, the less it becomes.


I don't know what the way forward with Prince Andrew is. All he's actually been proven guilty of is having very bad taste in friends. Maybe he's done far worse or maybe he hasn't: we don't know the answer, and, unless either he admits he's lying or Virginia Giuffre admits that she's lying, we're never going to. He's certainly not the only public figure to have been accused of sexual misconduct or to have had very questionable friends. I don't know how this moves on.

gradually reducing the charity component is one thing. If tehre are going to be less people doing the job, the charity side will have to be slimmed down and worked out in a different way.. But at present, the RF have a lot of patrnages and they had several people dealing with them. So now, that has altered abruptly with ANdrew Harry and Meg leaving. I think for the moment they have to find a way of doing a bit less but not dropping a lot of them all at once. But Andrew should never come back. I don't know what he can do in private but in public, I don't think that the public would want to see him doing anything. Possibly the RF wonder if in due course he might be forgiven.. I don't know.. Or perhaps they hope that in a year or 2, Meg and Harry will find that life outside isn't working and they will want to comeback.. but again for different reasons Im not sure the public will want them back

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

As far as I can see, the ringing of the bells for Andrew's birthday isn't something that he ever would have to have earned and is just part of tradition celebrating the birthdays of the royal family closest to the monarch.

I seriously doubt anyone in the RF or otherwise ever expect to see Andrew as a working royal again. That boat has sailed and left the horizon.

but would people have noticed if they just didn't do it this year or again? I feel a bit uneasy that the fact that it has been announced that it will happen is opening a door... I wonder if the queen hopes that in a few years, he could return...

[tommy100]

The reality is apart from doing a horrendous interview and having questionable friends Andrew has not been proven to do anything illegal.

Was it morally right to stick by a so called friend after that first period in prison - no not at all. But in reality that is all Andrew has done wrong, along with generally being a buffoon.

I think we have to be content that Andrew has been publicly sidelined by the BRF, we can't expect his mother and sibling to cut him off privately. The flag flying and bell ringing thing, well it would have been better for BP to stay out of it leave it up to councils/churches to decide but I guess they referred back to BP.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by tommy100

The reality is apart from doing a horrendous interview and having questionable friends Andrew has not been proven to do anything illegal.

Was it morally right to stick by a so called friend after that first period in prison - no not at all. But in reality that is all Andrew has done wrong, along with generally being a buffoon.

I think we have to be content that Andrew has been publicly sidelined by the BRF, we can't expect his mother and sibling to cut him off privately. The flag flying and bell ringing thing, well it would have been better for BP to stay out of it leave it up to councils/churches to decide but I guess they referred back to BP.

he has associated iwht a sex criminal after it was proven that the man was a criminal. He "went to America to break off the friendship".. and stayed 4 days. He and Fergie seem to have been involved in questionable financial dealings with the man which was one reason they hung around him. Andrew also was friends with Ghis Maxwell who was "procuring" for Epstein. He has deeply embarrassed the RF, and his mother. No charity will work with him. So for the RF to give the nod to these sort of public celebrations is extremely stupid and can lead to questions as to whether they hope that in a few years Andrew could be rehabilitated. But Andrew has clearly shown no guilt or remorse, so no. He can't be. He only regretted that he had to give up his firendsihp with this man with the opportunities that it gave him...
I would feel that it is possible taht in private some of the RF are very unhappy wit his behaviour and are giving him the cold shoulder - but I think the queen is still rather too much prone to believe that her dear son can't have done anything very wrong.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by tommy100

The reality is apart from doing a horrendous interview and having questionable friends Andrew has not been proven to do anything illegal.

Was it morally right to stick by a so called friend after that first period in prison - no not at all. But in reality that is all Andrew has done wrong, along with generally being a buffoon.

I think we have to be content that Andrew has been publicly sidelined by the BRF, we can't expect his mother and sibling to cut him off privately. The flag flying and bell ringing thing, well it would have been better for BP to stay out of it leave it up to councils/churches to decide but I guess they referred back to BP.

I would never expect his family to cut Andrew off privately - he’s still their son, brother, uncle, father, etc.. Anyone who wishes for that is looking for blood from a stone. However, they should have left any birthday celebrations as private matters....no flags, bells or anything else.

[tommy100]

I personally have a massively low opinion of Andrew and can't say I am at all sorry we won't be seeing all that much of him. I'm content if he still appears with the Queen and other royals on private land, for private family events and at church with them.

I think the difficulty with the flags and bells comes with the fact that they are to mark the birthday of one the sovereign's sons and Andrew is still that. The same applies to Edward and Sophie when they were't full working members of the RF and were working in their own businesses pre 2002 - they were still HM's son and daughter in law despite working for themselves. Ultimately its really up to the government and councils as to whether they will fly flags or not and Andrew's birthday is on the list of national flag days. As for the Abbey well it is a royal peculiar and the Queen is the sovereign so they probably have split loyalties - at the end of the day seeing the Union Jack flying and hearing bells pealing is pleasant whatever its for (and I bet 90% of people wouldn't know why they were happening anyway)

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by tommy100

The reality is apart from doing a horrendous interview and having questionable friends Andrew has not been proven to do anything illegal.

Was it morally right to stick by a so called friend after that first period in prison - no not at all. But in reality that is all Andrew has done wrong, along with generally being a buffoon.

I think we have to be content that Andrew has been publicly sidelined by the BRF, we can't expect his mother and sibling to cut him off privately. The flag flying and bell ringing thing, well it would have been better for BP to stay out of it leave it up to councils/churches to decide but I guess they referred back to BP.

Thank you for speaking the truth. He is an idiot, arrogant, naive, poor choice of friends, thoughtless, all those things but at the moment he has not been charged with anything never mind found guilty.

I am fed up with the various threads being hijacked with people going on about Andrew. Comments that he should not give his daughter away, he should stay away from the wedding, the RF are covering for him, let the other two,( who shall remain nameless) take the flak to take the heat off Andrew. All absolute nonsense.

Neither do we know what goes on in the background behind closed doors, what conversations take place.
There is no evidence just conjecture, and please do not anybody say the women have made statements , the people from the UK will know about a recent case and the very public police enquiries that destroyed innocent lives.

I have no time for trial by media.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by tommy100

I personally have a massively low opinion of Andrew and can't say I am at all sorry we won't be seeing all that much of him. I'm content if he still appears with the Queen and other royals on private land, for private family events and at church with them.

I think the difficulty with the flags and bells comes with the fact that they are to mark the birthday of one the sovereign's sons and Andrew is still that. The same applies to Edward and Sophie when they were't full working members of the RF and were working in their own businesses pre 2002 - they were still HM's son and daughter in law despite working for themselves. Ultimately its really up to the government and councils as to whether they will fly flags or not and Andrew's birthday is on the list of national flag days. As for the Abbey well it is a royal peculiar and the Queen is the sovereign so they probably have split loyalties - at the end of the day seeing the Union Jack flying and hearing bells pealing is pleasant whatever its for (and I bet 90% of people wouldn't know why they were happening anyway)

when you know it is to "honour" Andrew, its another matter. Edward was the Queen's son, but he had not been forced to withdraw from his duties because of a particuarly horrible scandal. I hope that it is just a hangover due to the fact that Andrew is a senior royal in terms of closeness to the queen.. and not a sign that they are half hoping in due course he can come back.. (I do think the loss of Harry and Meg IS one reason why this might just be considered.... )

When the Duke of Windsor left, although he retained his HRH and even had an appointment as Governor of the Bahamas in the War, he was pretty much persona non grata within the family. He rarely came to visit in the UK, his mother never received Wallis - . Andrew's behaviour has been a lot more scandalous. I know the queen may try to believe the best of him, and I don't expect her to throw him out but I think that she should be cautious about being seen with him.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Denville

When the Duke of Windsor left, although he retained his HRH and even had an appointment as Governor of the Bahamas in the War, he was pretty much persona non grata within the family. He rarely came to visit in the UK, his mother never received Wallis - . Andrew's behaviour has been a lot more scandalous. I know the queen may try to believe the best of him, and I don't expect her to throw him out but I think that she should be cautious about being seen with him.

The Duke of Windsor did things that directly affected his family-that’s why he was not welcome within the family.
And being a traitor to your own country-consorting with Nazis and blabbing state secrets is pretty bad, so no the Duke of Windsor was not less scandalous. He was sent to the Bahamas to get him out of Europe and away from Hitler’s minions, not as a reward or honor.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

The Duke of Windsor did things that directly affected his family-that’s why he was not welcome within the family.
And being a traitor to your own country-consorting with Nazis and blabbing state secrets is pretty bad, so no the Duke of Windsor was not less scandalous. He was sent to the Bahamas to get him out of Europe and away from Hitler’s minions, not as a reward or honor.

True, but he was pretty much chilled out by the family from the very first before he had started to flirt with the Nazis during the war. Andrew's behaviour has involved friendship with some very dubious people, engaging in shady money making deals.. and a freindshp with a convicted sex offender, who provided him with girls. are you saying that does not affect the RF? That they are not embarrsssed by a brother, son, uncle who has doen these sorts of things. Who has been forced to resign from his royal duties because charites wont work with him?

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Denville

True, but he was pretty much chilled out by the family from the very first before he had started to flirt with the Nazis during the war. Andrew's behaviour has involved friendship with some very dubious people, engaging in shady money making deals.. and a freindshp with a convicted sex offender, who provided him with girls. are you saying that does not affect the RF? That they are not embarrsssed by a brother, son, uncle who has doen these sorts of things. Who has been forced to resign from his royal duties because charites wont work with him?

I think it is easier to overlook dubious behavior when it doesn’t directly impact your own life. I think Charles & William are more directly affected than the Queen herself and rightfully not as forgiving under the circumstances.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I think it is easier to overlook dubious behavior when it doesn’t directly impact your own life. I think Charles & William are more directly affected than the Queen herself and rightfully not as forgiving under the circumstances.

So it doesn't matter how awfully Andrew behaved, that he was involved with a man who was a pimp.. so that he could get easy sex and money making deals provided it does not affect one's own life? Andrew - the way he talked at the internvew showed that he had NOTHNG.. that he didn't notice people who were "beneath him".. and that he did not care about young women who were being groomed and abused because they were of a class beneath him...
I can't imagine that the queen does not feel shame that he has turned out like that... perhaps she can only cope with it by making hersllf believe that he didn't really realise what he was doing.. and she herself has led a very sheltered life so perhaps it is easier for her to do that. I agree that Charles and William are probably a lot more angry and disgusted and feel that Andrew is a problem they will have to deal with and manage for the rest of their working lives...

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Denville

So it doesn't matter how awfully Andrew behaved, that he was involved with a man who was a pimp.. so that he could get easy sex and money making deals provided it does not affect one's own life? Andrew - the way he talked at the internvew showed that he had NOTHNG.. that he didn't notice people who were "beneath him".. and that he did not care about young women who were being groomed and abused because they were of a class beneath him...
I can't imagine that the queen does not feel shame that he has turned out like that... perhaps she can only cope with it by making hersllf believe that he didn't really realise what he was doing.. and she herself has led a very sheltered life so perhaps it is easier for her to do that. I agree that Charles and William are probably a lot more angry and disgusted and feel that Andrew is a problem they will have to deal with and manage for the rest of their working lives...

I’m sure Andrew’s mother is disappointed in him and wonders why he is so arrogantly stupid, but she apparently loves him-something that seems inconceivable to some. However, the Queen is pragmatic and took away his job.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I’m sure Andrew’s mother is disappointed in him and wonders why he is so arrogantly stupid, but she apparently loves him-something that seems inconceivable to some. However, the Queen is pragmatic and took away his job.

Good heavens she didn't have much choice. Charities were dropping him.. conservative papers were attacking him, he was clearly NOT going to be able to go on in the job.. and he himself I suspect did not see it until firmly told by her and problably Charles that he had to step down before every single charity he was involved with dropped him publicly

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

The Duke of Windsor did things that directly affected his family-that’s why he was not welcome within the family.
And being a traitor to your own country-consorting with Nazis and blabbing state secrets is pretty bad, so no the Duke of Windsor was not less scandalous. He was sent to the Bahamas to get him out of Europe and away from Hitler’s minions, not as a reward or honor.

Oh, Andrew isn’t a patch on the Duke of Windsor, who honestly was a dangerous man. He sympathized with the Nazis, he was photographed with Hitler and he was actively trying to undermine his brother so that he could possibly become King again. He wasn’t welcome at all in the UK.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I’m sure Andrew’s mother is disappointed in him and wonders why he is so arrogantly stupid, but she apparently loves him-something that seems inconceivable to some. However, the Queen is pragmatic and took away his job.

Yep. You don’t just stop loving your children even when they do stupid, embarrassing things. There are murderers out there even whose parents still love them...You can love someone even while you’re embarrassed, angry, disappointed, etc.. Charles had a rocky relationship with his parents for awhile, but he and they still loved each other.