The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[Osipi]

The way things have been reported, as far as the tabloids are concerned, you'd be hard pressed to to not be nudged into the belief that Andrew is woven from the same cloth as Epstein was. Everything is a *huge* scandal and painted to look like Andrew was in cahoots with Epstein and Maxwell and bringing the black plague to Windsor Castle and tainting everything and everyone around there just by their presence. This is why I cringe when I see a link to a tabloid presented here. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Its not conductive to intelligent conversation. Its not conductive to anything except to spread rumor, gossip and speculations.

Lumutqueen is correct in stating the fact that, at this time, Andrew has not done anything that can be proven to be criminal or even ethically and morally wrong. There are accusations and allegations but those have yet to be proven. Andrew, himself, is suffering from his own ineptitude in doing a train wreck of an interview and its the aftermath of that interview that affected his public royal roles and has relegated him into an early retirement from the "Firm".

If people want to treat the Daily Mail and others as "gospel truths", that's fine and their own business. It shows they buy into the sensationalism that these media outlets depend on for profit. I just don't feel it belongs here where we strive to be a cut above that sort of thing. The more we can stick to the credible facts of the matter, the better. Do we really want to be part of the court of public opinion that needs to have Andrew hung, drawn and quartered and paraded in shame for all to see? I would like to think we're more compassionate than that.

[MARG]

It seems we live in a vindictive world where a person's entire life can be torn to shreds by self-righteous bigots who care nothing for the morality of truth even going so far as to imply Andrew's walking to church could cause "morally outraged heckling".

It is my guess that should Andrew go to church on Christmas Day he will accompany his mother as someone usually does these days since Prince Philip retired, to avoid any ugly people making scenes.

[King of the Jungle]

Same. I'm surprised that so many charities have dropped him like hot cakes.
Should Andrew beg to be arrested so that he can be proven innocent in a court of law?
His name is mud now and he has not been legally charged.

Andrew is a fool to have associated with Epstein and Maxwell and the public find it too disgusting to overlook. People can believe that Andrew might be untrustworthy; they know him to make poor decisions.
He has sullied the good works of the BRF - not illegal but still a travesty.

[Madame Verseau]

Andrew can stop the PR bleeding and heal the black eye he gave the royal family by talking to the FBI with legal counsel presenting during questioning as is his right. Until then the press is going to report every hinky aspect of Andrew's life.

[Osipi]

There's a huge difference though between credible journalism and sensationalistic, exaggerated and pure fictionalizing of things to "stir the pot" and create tempests in a teapot.

Whether or not Andrew talks to the FBI with or without legal counsel is his own business and should not be made available to the general public via the Daily Mail or any other outlet of ill repute. Its none of our business if, when and how Andrew decides to cooperate with this ongoing investigation.

[LadyRaven]

Personally I think we live in a society that because of poor education system , People can no longer tell the difference between true journalism and sensationalism. No new facts have been reported since 2011. Andrew being with a bunch of women and questions regarded his finances has been around since 2006 at least. The allegations are still not proven and I question witnesses that only come out recently. Where were they in 2011. David Boies , lawyer for Virginia, has been caught in ethic issues regarding supposed Epstein tapes of trying to shake down men in the “tapes” by The NY Times. I will trust The NY Times over the daily mail all day everyday. If Lisa bloom is also representing you I give a side eye as well

[ACO]

I go by Andrew's own words in which he said he has zero regrets over his friendship with a human sex trafficker and pedophile. That is on him, not the tabloid press.

He can (and likely will) do Sandrigham but if he rides in the car with The Queen then honestly they deserve every single bad headline that comes their way.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

Maybe it could also mean the man wants to attend church with his family on Christmas like millions of other saints and sinners the world over?

I personally think the public stroll can and should be avoided. But banning a person from church is a bridge too far imo.

Nobody's banning him from church.. but to be seen there "doing a public walk" with his family is another matter..... He can attend church wherever he goes....

[Denville]

Originally Posted by ACO

I go by Andrew's own words in which he said he has zero regrets over his friendship with a human sex trafficker and pedophile. That is on him, not the tabloid press.

He can (and likely will) do Sandrigham but if he rides in the car with The Queen then honestly they deserve every single bad headline that comes their way.

Precisely. Andrew may not have done anyting illegal.. but that is not the only criterion for wrong and horrible behaviour. And his complete lack of sensitivity shown In that interview has made it clear what he's like. He is unbelievably arrogant and selfish and wrong thinking. He only made a brief mention of regretting the friendship and feeling sorry for the victims after he had done the interview and been dropped by numerous charities...

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Denville

Nobody's banning him from church.. but to be seen there "doing a public walk" with his family is another matter..... He can attend church wherever he goes....

I think that's exactly what I said. I was specifically referring to posters who seemed to insinuate that Andrew shouldn't show up period.

Ideally, I hope he spends Christmas in Switzerland.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by ACO

I go by Andrew's own words in which he said he has zero regrets over his friendship with a human sex trafficker and pedophile. That is on him, not the tabloid press.

He can (and likely will) do Sandrigham but if he rides in the car with The Queen then honestly they deserve every single bad headline that comes their way.

As I see it, if he rides in the car with the Queen on Christmas morning, he'll not be riding with the Queen but rather riding with his mother. Its hard to see sometimes but there *is* a separation between HM's roles as Queen and as a mother. Would any of us really turn our backs on a wayward child or loved one (no matter the age)? I know I couldn't do it.

Andrew, through his own thoughts and words expressed in the interview he gave showed the world just what kind of man he is and its not an image that the "Firm" wants to present to the world and therefore, he found himself out of a job. That's the business side of the family. I can't see that being a just reason for a mother to ostracize and shun her child. We have to remember that Christmas at Sandringham is for family. Its not a public engagement to appease the general public.

The tabloid press can and will present any bad headline they can come up with no matter what happens. Its what they do. The day the British Royal Family presents themselves to appease and pacify the tabloid press is the day I think there'd be a republic in the works not long afterwards. They'd no longer be real people that strive to make things better for the people they serve but rather puppets on a string dancing to the tune of the Daily Mail and others like them and present themselves as cardboard cutouts.

[vkrish]

Apparently Ghisaline Maxwell is planning to give a detailed interview in which she will tell that Prince Andrew is completely innocent and never had sex with any of the victims, and that all of them are lying..
Last ditch effort to exonerate him in public eye?
Sort of rehabilitation for Prince Andrew? Will this clear things up? Or will it make things much complicated?
Is she doing it voluntarily out of love for Andrew to save him? Or on being nudged by Andrew?
In the latter case, does this have the approval of the Palace?
Will her single interview undo all the mess?
I just don't any more headache for the Queen, ultimately it reflects on her.
Of course people like Sarah have it good either ways. If it goes well, she takes the credit, if it goes wrong she will be "seen" at the Palace gates showing support..

[Osipi]

Ghislaine Maxwell giving any sort of interview is bound to be another train wreck only this'll be a train carrying nuclear warheads that explode on impact and obliterates everything in sight.

Ms. Maxwell doesn't need the permission of the palace or anyone to speak to whomever she wants to. She can say the Epstein was Santa Claus in disguise to these girls and a wonderful benefactor to them and Andrew, personally, treated any girl or woman he met as he would treat his own daughters. Kicker is though is who is going to believe her and it will just make matters much worse then they already are.

If these girls are lying and Andrew's name is good as gold and she's done no harm or anything wrong, why then is she in hiding like a snake in the grass and cannot be found for questioning? With any kind of luck and perhaps a few leaks here and there, it just may lead the Feds to Maxwell before she can utter a single word in defense of herself or anyone else. They're really the people she should be talking to and "telling all". Not to a camera for entertainment purposes and a lot of green dollars in her pocket.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Osipi

As I see it, if he rides in the car with the Queen on Christmas morning, he'll not be riding with the Queen but rather riding with his mother. Its hard to see sometimes but there *is* a separation between HM's roles as Queen and as a mother. Would any of us really turn our backs on a wayward child or loved one (no matter the age)? I know I couldn't do it.

Andrew, through his own thoughts and words expressed in the interview he gave showed the world just what kind of man he is and its not an image that the "Firm" wants to present to the world and therefore, he found himself out of a job. That's the business side of the family. I can't see that being a just reason for a mother to ostracize and shun her child. We have to remember that Christmas at Sandringham is for family. Its not a public engagement to appease the general public.

The tabloid press can and will present any bad headline they can come up with no matter what happens. Its what they do. The day the British Royal Family presents themselves to appease and pacify the tabloid press is the day I think there'd be a republic in the works not long afterwards. They'd no longer be real people that strive to make things better for the people they serve but rather puppets on a string dancing to the tune of the Daily Mail and others like them and present themselves as cardboard cutouts.

This. It really bothers me that so many want Andrew not just punished through losing his position in the BRF, but also his family...that he now can never show his face with them again. I’m sorry, but that’s too much for me. The public got what they wanted - and it’s completely fair as Andrew had to go. However, he’s still a son, brother and husband, and he should be able to be those things regardless of his losing his “ day job” as it were.

[Hans-Rickard]

Andrew’s public image is already destroyed to ruins regardless of what happens from now on. And he has had thousands of chances to stop that himself but haven’t because let’s face it, He don’t know how to live a simple life. Otherwise he wouldn’t find himself in this situation.

And the public image is Important !! Don’t even try to tell that the monarchy can survive regardless of what it’s members does as long as it is not a closed court case, because that’s not true. Without support from the public and the elected politicians, Buckingham Palace may sooner that they want to realize be turned into a museum over Britains former Monarchy.

Now full focus must be on ”damage control” and to protect Beatrice and Eugenie’s lives and not make them ”collateral damage”.

[Moonmaiden23]

If people thought Andrew's interview was a disaster, just wait until Ghislaine Maxwell tells her version of things!

With friends like that woman......JUST. DON'T.

[Hans-Rickard]

Ofcourse Andrew should attend the Church Service on Christmas Day if he wants to. Jesus never closes his door for anyone who wants to see him regardless of what they have done. In fact, the bible is very clear that sinners who asks him for his forgiveness will be the first persons with him in Paradise.....

Riding with The Queen would be a very bad descision PR-wise and i think they both realizes that. My guess is that The Queen will be accompanied by a Lady in Waiting. But Andrew can always take his own car or Walk with bodyguards.

[Empress Merel]

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard

Ofcourse Andrew should attend the Church Service on Christmas Day if he wants to. Jesus never closes his door for anyone who wants to see him regardless of what they have done. In fact, the bible is very clear that sinners who asks him for his forgiveness will be the first persons with him in Paradise.....

Riding with The Queen would be a very bad descision PR-wise and i think they both realizes that. My guess is that The Queen will be accompanied by a Lady in Waiting. But Andrew can always take his own car or Walk with bodyguards.

They didn't realise that the last time he rode with the Queen. Never underestimate the BRF aides on stupiditity

[ACO]

Originally Posted by Osipi

As I see it, if he rides in the car with the Queen on Christmas morning, he'll not be riding with the Queen but rather riding with his mother. Its hard to see sometimes but there *is* a separation between HM's roles as Queen and as a mother. Would any of us really turn our backs on a wayward child or loved one (no matter the age)? I know I couldn't do it.

Andrew, through his own thoughts and words expressed in the interview he gave showed the world just what kind of man he is and its not an image that the "Firm" wants to present to the world and therefore, he found himself out of a job. That's the business side of the family. I can't see that being a just reason for a mother to ostracize and shun her child. We have to remember that Christmas at Sandringham is for family. Its not a public engagement to appease the general public.

The tabloid press can and will present any bad headline they can come up with no matter what happens. Its what they do. The day the British Royal Family presents themselves to appease and pacify the tabloid press is the day I think there'd be a republic in the works not long afterwards. They'd no longer be real people that strive to make things better for the people they serve but rather puppets on a string dancing to the tune of the Daily Mail and others like them and present themselves as cardboard cutouts.

And yet they make a very public show of something meant for only the family. It is for both. Let's keep it real. And yes I agree that she is his mother, but she is still The Queen and as we know all their actions still mean something whether "on" or "off" duty.

As for my comments of the media. It isn't so much what the press print but what the people who read it and overall look at the family do. People like us! Honestly if Andrews pulls up with The Queen, I don't see that going over very well with the general public who are already highly questioning the royals these days.

But they will do as they want as they always do.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Andrew will have to find a new role. I wonder what that would be. Will he end up like the Duke of Windsor; except - unlike D of W - as a disgraced individual. Are there any villas available in the Bois de Boulogne?

He has to find a new role??Except for a toilet role no,I hope not!