The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[MARG]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Notice how everyone ignored this particular post and doesn't want to address this legitimate question.

I noticed. In this time of #metoo it seems that the rule of law and the right of redress count for nothing. Libellous accusations have been made about other individual members of the BRF as well and these posters seem to think that their personal feelings give them a free pass. They do not.

Andrew was lambasted and his reputation suffered greatly after the original Florida criminal case against Epstein in 2008. His unwise choice of friend cost him a lot of friends, the goodwill of a great many people and his position as Trade Ambassador. To be honest, he took a beating over the whole thing and sort of vanished for a while.

Now that the original case is under scrutiny I am interested as to what they will find but, until such time as Prince Andrew is charged with a crime, I refuse to be part of a lynch mob trying to destroy the man and his career.

Originally Posted by Gawin

I think the MeToo movement has influenced the discussion and I believe this has already been pointed out by other forum members. There's a heightened sensitivity to the sexual abuse of women and an increased effort to hold the guilty accountable.

I don't think Andrew is guilty of any crimes and he's stated he didn't "see, witness or suspect any behaviour of the sort that subsequently led to [Epstein's] arrest and conviction."

But he still hasn't explained why the conviction itself didn't raise any red flags.

While the #MeToo movement created a groundswell of women coming forward and naming their abusers, such as Harvey Weinstein, almost 99% of these men were still at large and free to continue to abuse their power. They were the previous UNKNOWN abusers, stalwarts of the community, the recipient of many international and national awards, etc. They were not men on trial for sex crimes such as Epstein was.

I will say this now as I have said before, to be charged with such horrifying and almost unbelievable sex crimes such as he was, he pleaded guilty and, as we now know, his sentence was a farce. To me here in little old NZ and to the people and media of the UK, having pleaded guilty or been found guilty by a jury, we would have expected that to be the end of it. He would be jailed for at least 20 years to life. That did not happen.

To me and I think most decent honest people, the fact that he pleaded guilty to two state counts of prostitution, etc. was a nothing. It seemed that the media had gotten hold of the story and more than overstated the case, I mean, the man was out of jail within 13 months. The notion that the facts were real and the DA's Office would protect one of the great and powerful to the extent it did is beyond belief.

That conviction gave the illusion of "stupid mistake" not "lethal predator" and many of his friends joined him to dine after the event and shook their heads. Basically, NBD.

[JessRulz]

Several accusatory posts, and responses to them, have been removed. Several posts containing links to articles solely on Epstein's activities with no link to Prince Andrew have also been removed, as per previous moderator notices.

[Rudolph]

“As we revealed on August 20, Prince Andrew is willing to talk to the police. But the Metropolitan Police has reviewed its 2015 decision not to investigate the same allegations that Virginia Roberts Giuffre was sex trafficked and decided that was correct. So it’s down to the FBI.”

“There’s speculation but no confirmation that the FBI may want to see the emails Prince Andrew exchanged with Epstein.”

Via Richard Palmer Twitter

https://twitter.com/royalreporter/st...515362305?s=21

[Dman]

Just saw on CNN that dozens of Epstein’s accusers are about to speak at a hearing within minutes.

That man took the coward way out (or so they say) so he would remain untouched, but these ladies aren’t scared and they refuse to remain silent. They’ve been trying to speak out and get their stories heard, but in some cases they were dismissed and most cases Epstein threatened journalists and newspapers from publishing the survivors stories.

[ACO]

I find the excuses for Andrew fascinating. I was watching GMB and Duncan Larcombe was on defending him by saying that Epstein "groomed" him like he did the girls. Are you kidding me? He is a grown man. He is a prince who has been around all sorts of type all his life and you want me to believe he was some poor manipulated man? Give me a freaking break. He was his friend and after he went to jail he continued to be his friend. Facts.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by ACO

I find the excuses for Andrew fascinating. I was watching GMB and Duncan Larcombe was on defending him by saying that Epstein "groomed" him like he did the girls. Are you kidding me? He is a grown man. He is a prince who has been around all sorts of type all his life and you want me to believe he was some poor manipulated man? Give me a freaking break. He was his friend and after he went to jail he continued to be his friend. Facts.

Well, you’re seeing part of the reason why Andrew has been resting easy all these in the face of these allegations. Some folks are willing to give Andrew the benefit of the doubt purely because he’s the sone of Queen Elizabeth II and are willing to shape another narrative for him. Making the excuse that Andrew suddenly became dumb and allowed Jeffery Epstein to manipulate him over these crimes are insulting the intelligence of everyone with a brain.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by ACO

I find the excuses for Andrew fascinating. I was watching GMB and Duncan Larcombe was on defending him by saying that Epstein "groomed" him like he did the girls. Are you kidding me? He is a grown man. He is a prince who has been around all sorts of type all his life and you want me to believe he was some poor manipulated man? Give me a freaking break. He was his friend and after he went to jail he continued to be his friend. Facts.

Y'know, I wouldn't classify Epstein's sentence as "going to jail" but more along the lines of being put up for the night in a secure facility because of the "work program". Very cushy arrangement there.

Andrew is, to me, a classic example of "give a man enough rope and eventually he'll hang himself with it" meaning that the past is coming back to haunt him and there's not a thing he can do about it. It wouldn't surprise me if Andrew actually thought that as Epstein got away almost without a blemish to his name and continued on the path of perversion he loved so much, Andrew probably figured he was safe too. I don't know. The box of secrets is disintegrating fast and where it takes Andrew from here is anybody's guess.

Whatever happens to Andrew, he brought it on himself.

[Madame Verseau]

FBI may be looking at Epstein's emails

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...pstein-fbi.amp


A foresenic sweep means pulling emails that may have been deleted. Andrew and ALL associates of this monster need to worry if there is anything incriminating.

[ACO]

https://twitter.com/molcranenewman/s...15588060737538

#JeffreyEpstein survivor Virginia Giuffre, who delivered a profound statement in court this morning, said Price Andrew, Duke of York “knows exactly what he’s done” and implored him to come clean about his role in Epstein’s sex trafficking ring.

[Fijiro]

Buckingham Palace has issued another statement (I don't know if this has already been posted)
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...ingham-palace/

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Fijiro

Buckingham Palace has issued another statement (I don't know if this has already been posted)
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...ingham-palace/

I believe this one was already posted, but I am waiting to see if there is yet another statement after today's testimony, and Andrew being directly called out by Virginia Giuffre.

[Dman]

These women are extremely brave and powerful and they deserve their justice and this is one man who’s proud of them all.

Epstein’s victims speak out and Mrs. Virginia Giuffre call Prince Andrew out-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mpression=true

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Dman

These women are extremely brave and powerful and they deserve their justice and this is one man who’s proud of them all.

Epstein’s victims speak out and Mrs. Virginia Giuffre call Prince Andrew out-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mpression=true

There are an awful lot of rich and powerful people who want them to shut up so I also admire their bravery. Personally if I were one of them I would be scared to step forward as I would feel that my life could be under threat. I hope they get payback on those who used and abused their young bodies.

[Dman]

Video:
Virginia Giuffre speak out about Jeffery Epstein and Prince Andrew:
https://mobile.twitter.com/molcranen...15588060737538

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Xbs8...ature=youtu.be

[Madame Verseau]

Perhaps that's why they spoke out. If anything were to happen to these ladies Epstein's creepy crew would be prime suspects, maybe not enough in a court of law but definitely in the court of public opinion.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

Perhaps that's why they spoke out. If anything were to happen to these ladies Epstein's creepy crew would be prime suspects, maybe not enough in a court of law but definitely in the court of public opinion.

I agree with you, can you imagine the uproar if anything bad was to happen to any of them now? Epstein's death is suspicious enough without another one any time soon.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by MARG

I noticed. In this time of #metoo it seems that the rule of law and the right of redress count for nothing. Libellous accusations have been made about other individual members of the BRF as well and these posters seem to think that their personal feelings give them a free pass. They do not.

Andrew was lambasted and his reputation suffered greatly after the original Florida criminal case against Epstein in 2008. His unwise choice of friend cost him a lot of friends, the goodwill of a great many people and his position as Trade Ambassador. To be honest, he took a beating over the whole thing and sort of vanished for a while.

Now that the original case is under scrutiny I am interested as to what they will find but, until such time as Prince Andrew is charged with a crime, I refuse to be part of a lynch mob trying to destroy the man and his career.
NBD.

I agree MARG, recent events and phenomenon has created a witch hunt mentality where simply saying something makes a person (usually a man) guilty. We can't even discover what Andrew knew or didn't know because so many are ready to condemn him because of the appearance of bad behavior.

[King of the Jungle]

Did Virginia Giuffre state the same inside the court to the judge, or just outside the court?

It is a fair and strong decision for the judge to hear complaints, I agree.
Has Prince Andrew ever told the basis of his relationship with Epstein? Was it for financial advice?
The more information known about the deeds of Epstein the better. People like him are often very clever and secretive beneath a large colourful cover/mask and charismatic personality.
All kinds can be duped by the likes of Epstein. Many of the victimised women seem smart and some seem to have been in their twenties and well educated. I actually believe that some people in his midst would have just seen what he wanted them to see - the 'fun party man'. Prince Andrew might have been in that category. Who knows? Hopefully we will know.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by King of the Jungle

Did Virginia Giuffre state the same inside the court to the judge, or just outside the court?

It is a fair and strong decision for the judge to hear complaints, I agree.
Has Prince Andrew ever told the basis of his relationship with Epstein? Was it for financial advice?
The more information known about the deeds of Epstein the better. People like him are often very clever and secretive beneath a large colourful cover/mask and charismatic personality.
All kinds can be duped by the likes of Epstein. Many of the victimised women seem smart and some seem to have been in their twenties and well educated. I actually believe that some people in his midst would have just seen what he wanted them to see - the 'fun party man'. Prince Andrew might have been in that category. Who knows? Hopefully we will know.

we know that he went on associating with Epstein after he'd been convicted ofa crime.. He stayed at his houses frequently. He could harldy have missed the fact that Epstein was surrounded by younger women.

[sophie25]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I agree MARG, recent events and phenomenon has created a witch hunt mentality where simply saying something makes a person (usually a man) guilty. We can't even discover what Andrew knew or didn't know because so many are ready to condemn him because of the appearance of bad behavior.

He's been asked to give information about Epstein to help with this case but all he's done so far is to release statements denying all knowledge of what went on and saying he didn't know him very well. That is a complete lie so unless things change of course it makes him look guilty.