The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Denville

Precisely. He cant say anything that is going to make this go away or make hm look all right. THe only thing for him to do, is to give up royal life, and retire to a private life...

I think you're probably right. Issuing a statement apologizing for his foolish behavior [continuing a friendship with a convicted sex offender] won't make this go away. But to me he should do it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Erin9

^^
Those are good points/questions.

I’ve wondered when exactly Fergie borrowed the money. All I’ve found is when it became public knowledge.

Borrowing implies that the money will be repaid.
Did Fergie ever intend to repay it?

Sounds like another cash for access deal.

[rob2008]

Originally Posted by Gawin

I think you're probably right. Issuing a statement apologizing for his foolish behavior [continuing a friendship with a convicted sex offender] won't make this go away. But to me he should do it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Andrew has functioned as a 2nd or 3rd rank royal for some time. It would be appropriate if he acquired a certain necessary humility and accepted a very low profile.

[Leopoldine]

It's inconceivable to me that Buckingham Palace senior staff would allow Andrew to be questioned by US law enforcement officials. I do not see it happening.

IMO, some quiet talks between US State Department officials and their British counterparts seem more likely.

That being said, Ghislaine Maxwell must be getting her ducks in a row just in case Andrew or BP try to throw her under the bus.

[Madame Verseau]

This is where Andrew and Sarah are holed up, courtesy of Sky News

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLPu5FZZaYE

It doesn't look like Andrew is engaged in trying to clear his name; he expects the palace and the lawyers to do the heavy lifting.

I don't care if this is his normal vacation time. Circumstances should be forcing him to be more proactive especially with the monarchy's reputation taking a hit.

[O-H Anglophile]

So regarding the “young” brunette Andrew was filmed saying goodbye to in the recently released video-she has been identified as Katherine Keating, the then 28 year old daughter of former Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating. Apparently she is a York family friend.

[Leopoldine]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

This is where Andrew and Sarah are holed up, courtesy of Sky News


It doesn't look like Andrew is engaged in trying to clear his name; he expects the palace and the lawyers to do the heavy lifting.

I don't care if this is his normal vacation time. Circumstances should be forcing him to be more proactive especially with the monarchy's reputation taking a hit.

Madame, I see this secluded vacation as a positive for him and the BRF.

[sndral]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

So regarding the “young” brunette Andrew was filmed saying goodbye to in the recently released video-she has been identified as Katherine Keating, the then 28 year old daughter of former Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating. Apparently she is a York family friend.

Has the blonde younger looking girl seen w/ Epstein in the same video been ID’ed?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Andrew has functioned as a 2nd or 3rd rank royal for some time. It would be appropriate if he acquired a certain necessary humility and accepted a very low profile.

Actually, I believe Andrew has kept a pretty low profile and has really kept busy throwing himself into his charities and incentives since his involvement with Epstein broke in the news back in 2010-2011 and he stepped down as the UK's trade envoy. According to Iluvbertie's tallies, Andrew is the royal with the third highest count of duties and engagements with only Charles and Anne ahead of him.

We have to remember that all the accusations that have been levied at Andrew are *not* recent ones and occurred quite a bit of time ago. This all didn't happen last week but the recent arrest and the suicide of Epstein has dredged everything back up again. Its a case of the past come back to haunt someone.

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

It doesn't look like Andrew is engaged in trying to clear his name; he expects the palace and the lawyers to do the heavy lifting.

I don't care if this is his normal vacation time. Circumstances should be forcing him to be more proactive especially with the monarchy's reputation taking a hit.

Andrew is not going to be calling up the tabloids and filling them in on any kind of plans he may have in regards to all of this. It may not look to you that Andrew is doing anything but then again, you're a member of the public domain as much as I am and its not our place to be informed of such things.

I also believe that most people are intelligent and astute enough to realize that this is *not* a reflection on the monarchy of the UK. If anything, Andrew has shown himself to be a hard working member of the "Firm" over the years since he stepped down in his trade envoy role. He's done a lot of good and I'd hate to see all that good go away because of allegations that have yet to even be proven to be true.

One area that Andrew is so very blessed is in having a family that will stand by him no matter what. His mother, his ex-wife and his daughters know him much better than we do. I'm going to watch and see what develops with all this before I start whistling for the bus.

[Leopoldine]

It all comes back to Ghislaine. Pictures, films, videos, phone messages, etc.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Andrew has functioned as a 2nd or 3rd rank royal for some time. It would be appropriate if he acquired a certain necessary humility and accepted a very low profile.

Andrew has NOT functioned as a 2nd or 3rd ranked royal at all.

He is a senior royal and works at that level.

He is one of only three royals who has done over 200 engagements so far this year.

He is regularly sent by the FCO on visits to the Middle East and East Asia due to his contacts there, which says that they are happy with the way he represents Britain in those situations.

Just because a royal doesn't get lots of coverage for their engagements doesn't mean they aren't doing them.

Based on the amount of press coverage some people think the Sussexes and Cambridges are hard working royals but the reality is that they are way down any 'league table' as they do very little. Even the 83 year old Duke of Kent does more than they do (and he also goes overseas quite a lot on behalf of the FCO and MoD).

[Waika]

Iluvbertie, thank you pointing out not just how much work other members of the Royal Family carry out, but the level on which they operate.

[Madame Verseau]

Apparently BP is scared of the flight log of the Lolita Express. Andrew was named on 3 flights

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-Roberts.html

If BP is relying on the Court Circular why is it not naming the events it claims Andrew attended and producing pictures? The press is going to look at the dates the palace is challenging. DM got the tape of Andrew in Epstein's house nine years ago.

[Iluvbertie]

One date mentioned is April 11th 2001. Andrew had four engagements that day in the US:

1. The Duke of York, Chairman of the Trustees, Outward Bound Trust, attended the Morning Meeting at Willauer School, Thompson Island, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America.
2. His Royal Highness also attended a briefing on the Outward Bound and Boston Public Schools Choices programme in the Lewis Library, Willauer School,
3.and later visited students from the Choices programme participating in a Search and Rescue exercise at the Farm Site.
4,The Duke of York, Chairman of the Trustees, this afternoon departed Boston for New York upon the conclusion of His Royal Highness's Outward Bound Trust engagements. Captain Richard Dilworth was in attendance.

I don't know how far apart these places are but that is the CC for the 11th April, 2001 for Andrew.

April 16th the CC has nothing listed for Andrew.

July 4th he was in the UK where he again carried out 4 engagements:

1. His Royal Highness this morning visited St. Luke's Church of England Voluntary Aided Secondary School, Hyde Park Road, Southsea.
2. The Duke of York this afternoon opened "Action Stations", an interactive exhibition about the modern Royal Navy, at Portsmouth Historic Dockyard.
3. His Royal Highness afterwards attended a Lunch on board HMS KENT.
4. The Duke of York later visited Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust Magnetic Resonance Imaging/Computed Tomography Unit, Queen Alexandra Hospital, Portsmouth.

July 8th there is nothing in the CC.

That means that on 2 of the 4 dates mentioned in this article Andrew was undertaking official engagements and on at least one of those days he was in the UK.

If I can do that check in less than five minutes than so can the DM and anyone else who could be bothered.

[Lilyflo]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

Apparently BP is scared of the flight log of the Lolita Express. Andrew was named on 3 flights

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-Roberts.html

If BP is relying on the Court Circular why is it not naming the events it claims Andrew attended and producing pictures? The press is going to look at the dates the palace is challenging. DM got the tape of Andrew in Epstein's house nine years ago.

Prince Andrew wasn't named on those 4 flights in 2001. Someone called AP was but that could be anyone. However, it's interesting that BP is swiftly denying the pilot's testimony for those dates but not denying that Prince Andrew & his bodyguard were on the 12 May flight in 2000 from Nw York to Palm Beach. This is where testimony becomes messy because lapsed memories for exact details of dates/places can be challenged & then an argument made that the whole testimony is false because some details were incorrect.

They also haven't denied that Andrew was where Virginia Roberts placed him in her testimony (probably because they can't).
* 10th or 11th March 2001 in London (no records for Andrew)
* 9th or 10th April 2001 in New York (CC says Andrew flew to New York on 9th April)
* 11th - 16th April 2001 at Epstein's Caribbean Island (Andrew was on holiday in the Bahamas within those dates)

I think BP is caught in a bit of a trap now because by issuing denials of only some bits of testimony, they are leaving the unchallenged evidence open to more probing & questioning.

[O-H Anglophile]

I think all this breathless scandal mongering is actually hurting the cases of the women. Too much is being printed that can be proven not to be true and that can make what actually would be true suspect.

I read an article last night where an unidentified woman said she was abused by Epstein as an adult 20 something because he paid her for sex and introduced her to people who could "help her career." She had a 9 year relationship with him. The comments were not kind to her.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Leopoldine

It all comes back to Ghislaine. Pictures, films, videos, phone messages, etc.

I believe this is exactly what the FBI is looking into right now. Ghislaine Maxwell's involvement with aiding and abetting Epstein in sex trafficking and procuring under age girls. Its not going to be an easy job to actually get enough to indict Maxwell with charges similar to Epstein's before he died.

Interesting article that explains just why Maxwell hasn't been arrested and indicted on any charges yet. I think perhaps this is where Andrew may be asked to cooperate and answer some questions due to his long standing friendship with Maxwell.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...maxwell-227632

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

This is where Andrew and Sarah are holed up, courtesy of Sky News

It doesn't look like Andrew is engaged in trying to clear his name; he expects the palace and the lawyers to do the heavy lifting.

I don't care if this is his normal vacation time. Circumstances should be forcing him to be more proactive especially with the monarchy's reputation taking a hit.

You have no idea what is going on in the background, in private. Just because Andrew is not on social media updating us with his thoughts and actions does not mean that nothing is happening in the background.
Anything that is potentially a legal issue should be kept off line anyway. Some of the stuff in this forum if printed in the press would be subject to legal action.

[Hallo girl]

Originally Posted by Lilyflo

Prince Andrew wasn't named on those 4 flights in 2001. Someone called AP was but that could be anyone. However, it's interesting that BP is swiftly denying the pilot's testimony for those dates but not denying that Prince Andrew & his bodyguard were on the 12 May flight in 2000 from Nw York to Palm Beach. This is where testimony becomes messy because lapsed memories for exact details of dates/places can be challenged & then an argument made that the whole testimony is false because some details were incorrect.

They also haven't denied that Andrew was where Virginia Roberts placed him in her testimony (probably because they can't).
* 10th or 11th March 2001 in London (no records for Andrew)
* 9th or 10th April 2001 in New York (CC says Andrew flew to New York on 9th April)
* 11th - 16th April 2001 at Epstein's Caribbean Island (Andrew was on holiday in the Bahamas within those dates)

I think BP is caught in a bit of a trap now because by issuing denials of only some bits of testimony, they are leaving the unchallenged evidence open to more probing & questioning.

That is a good point, re issuing denials, it all gets messy.

The fact that some of the dates can be disproved, the others then become questionable, even if no clear evidence can be produced of his whereabouts.

That is the problem with trial by social media, mud slinging messes up the truth.

[rob2008]

What is the next stage in this process?