The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Leopoldine]

I had a thought.

(Stop smirking, you guys!)

Seriously, there has been a lot of commentary about how Andrew's reality is so different and otherworldly. That is not an excuse for anything. I am acutely aware that I am sounding very American there, but the BRF prides itself on its connection with regular people. Prince Philip in a factory asking about refrigerator insulation. HM adjusting a lowly officer's medal, as a mother would do for her son.


A smarter man might be able to see beyond a palace world, especially after attending that school in Canada (Lakeville?) and then spending years in the Royal Navy.

It seems to me that this prolonged run of extremely bad press might have unpredictable consequences, no matter how the court procedure goes. With a new monarch comes a new broom, and I don't think Andrew is quite ready to be shunted away into a semi owned by the Duchy. But, that new monarch, whenever he ascends, will surely shunt. Not good for the DoY's mental state, he has to plan.

A modest villa in a Spanish golf community, maybe. I think the Duke should make plans.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Make plans to leave Royal Lodge? According to the will of his late grandmother it's his. For life.

Why should/ would he need to vacate his home and move away from his children and grandchildren?

I wouldn't.

 

[Claire]

Personally I feel that he will - or rather will be pushed to do so. It is just he is too visible at Windsor. It gives the wrong the impression. I do think that going forward he will be asked, as will his children to move off the Windsor estates. I think that the Queen will not do it - but Charles will.
If you think about it - the rest of the broader family have been moved off. And that was part of the wider picture going forward. The Yorks need to move with the programme or will be moved.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I don't agree. Andrew is going to be "visible" wherever he lives...Windsor. Spain. The Moon. He cannot be stripped of his title except by act of Parliament, and he can't be stripped of his home period.

It is his, granted to him by his grandmother.

As for " the Yorks" needing to move...why should the blameless Eugenie and Beatrice be punished? To make good PR brownie points and visuals for squeaky clean Charles and the equally pristine William?

I don't know about Eugenie's situation but Beatrice is fortunate enough to have a husband who can support her more than adequately without help from the taxpayers.

And he has. They can live wherever they please.

Not sure why all this ill will exists towards those young women. They have done nothing to deserve being tarred by the same brush as their parents...yet they always are.

 

[Denville]

Yes, quite silly IMO to think that the RF will shove him out of his home where it is easier for him to be secure and stay out of reach of the press

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I had a thought.

(Stop smirking, you guys!)

Seriously, there has been a lot of commentary about how Andrew's reality is so different and otherworldly. That is not an excuse for anything. I am acutely aware that I am sounding very American there, but the BRF prides itself on its connection with regular people. Prince Philip in a factory asking about refrigerator insulation. HM adjusting a lowly officer's medal, as a mother would do for her son.


A smarter man might be able to see beyond a palace world, especially after attending that school in Canada (Lakeville?) and then spending years in the Royal Navy.

It seems to me that this prolonged run of extremely bad press might have unpredictable consequences, no matter how the court procedure goes. With a new monarch comes a new broom, and I don't think Andrew is quite ready to be shunted away into a semi owned by the Duchy. But, that new monarch, whenever he ascends, will surely shunt. Not good for the DoY's mental state, he has to plan.

A modest villa in a Spanish golf community, maybe. I think the Duke should make plans.

It seems the Duke of York has a contract with the Crown Estate for the usufruct of the Royal Lodge, the Chapel Lodge, seven Lodge cottages, security accommodation and 40 hectares of land. That contract expires in August 2078, so it is for the Duke's (and his daughters') lifetime to enjoy.

 

[sophie25]

Andrew has lost the appeal, it's Breaking News here in the UK.

 

[ACO]

Andrew denied. So it is now either settle or face a trial. I get the feeling she wants that trial. Will be interesting how Andrew and his team proceed.

 

[muriel]

That is right, a trial it is. There can't be very many happy people in Royal Lodge today.

 

[Claire]

I get the impression they are settling

 

[Granada]

Wow. Stunning. If anyone is interested there is a terrific article about the attempt by the Grey Men to stem the fallout from Andrew's sordid "indiscretions" going back some years. I apologize, I don't know how to link it.
It is called "Palace of Discord and Deception'. It is from a Irish publication called Village Magazine. Which promotes itself as covering political and cultural topics.
Great, great read.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Andrew has lost the appeal, it's Breaking News here in the UK.

Andrew denied. So it is now either settle or face a trial. I get the feeling she wants that trial. Will be interesting how Andrew and his team proceed.

That is right, a trial it is. There can't be very many happy people in Royal Lodge today.

Here is a source for that.

https://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/2022-01/21CV6702 JAN 11 2022 0900.pdf

The judge denies the applications for dismissal on the bases of the agreement between Virginia Giuffre and Jeffrey Epstein, the legal sufficiency of the stated claims, and the constitutionality of the New York law extending the statute of limitations. The ruling apparently does not address the jurisdictional argument about Ms. Giuffre's domicile, so I suppose the Duke of York's lawyers could continue to pursue that. They could also appeal today's ruling, of course.

I think Andrew knew exactly what the score was. There was a Vanity Fair article titled, "The Trouble with Andrew" that tells of a friend of Andrew's warning Andrew about Epstein's sordidness. This was when Epstein was just gaining attention before his softball conviction. Andrew told his friend to leave him alone and added "you're such a Puritan."

This is easily found via google.

Here: https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/share/ac60f552-4163-4d39-a36b-d2014fe20062

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I get the impression they are settling

Virginia Giuffre's lawyers/spokespersons have recently been briefing the media that in the interests of justice Ms. Giuffre desires the case to go to trial.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...s-not-ruled-pay-off-virginia-roberts-giuffre/

Wow. Stunning. If anyone is interested there is a terrific article about the attempt by the Grey Men to stem the fallout from Andrew's sordid "indiscretions" going back some years. I apologize, I don't know how to link it.
It is called "Palace of Discord and Deception'. It is from a Irish publication called Village Magazine. Which promotes itself as covering political and cultural topics.
Great, great read.

Here is the link:

https://villagemagazine.ie/palace-o...fficials-covered-up-for-his-paedophile-uncle/

As far as I can see, however, the article only rehashes stories which have already been covered in the mainstream media, with the addition of some sensationally framed speculation.

 

[Denville]

I think Andrew knew exactly what the score was. There was a Vanity Fair article titled, "The Trouble with Andrew" that tells of a friend of Andrew's warning Andrew about Epstein's sordidness. This was when Epstein was just gaining attention before his softball conviction. Andrew told his friend to leave him alone and added "you're such a Puritan."

This is easily found via google.

that might only mean that Andrew felt that a man who had lots of girls around, esp if they were willing to sleep with him (ANdrew) was just a normal guy who liked women... and that there was nothing wrong with accumulating a harem....It does not mean that he knew or beleieved that some of the girls were pressured into having sex with Epstein or with his friends.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I am not even the least bit surprised. And if Andrew and his team believed they would prevail he is even more deluded than I thought.

I don't feel a bit sorry for him....this whole sordid mess was avoidable on so many levels.

But I also feel very little sympathy/ understanding for Virginia Roberts Giuffre.

 

[Osipi]

At this point in time, I can't really see any winners coming out of this lawsuit. Everything is proceeding and being deemed legal or not legal as to the claims submitted by lawyers (which have been known to pull rabbits out of a hat to get a dismissal on technicalities).

This goes to trial, that's when its going to get down to the nitty gritty of "he said/she said" with Giuffre crying crocodile tears relating just how horribly she'd been misused and abused. Giuffre wants this circus to continue as, frankly, it is a money maker for her. (Wonder when the made for TV movie will be made).

Win or lose in court, Andrew's character and reputation is already beyond repair and cannot ever be restored. He'll live out the rest of his life at Royal Lodge being seen riding a horse or driving a car. Quite a comedown for a man that for so long had such a high regard for himself and his place in the world and the scheme of things. He may still reside in Windsor in a Crown Estate property but the reality of it all is that he will basically be "exiled" and away from the life he once knew much like his Uncle David found himself to be living in Paris after the abdication.

 

[_Heather_]

At this point in time, I can't really see any winners coming out of this lawsuit. Everything is proceeding and being deemed legal or not legal as to the claims submitted by lawyers (which have been known to pull rabbits out of a hat to get a dismissal on technicalities).

This goes to trial, that's when its going to get down to the nitty gritty of "he said/she said" with Giuffre crying crocodile tears relating just how horribly she'd been misused and abused. Giuffre wants this circus to continue as, frankly, it is a money maker for her. (Wonder when the made for TV movie will be made).

Win or lose in court, Andrew's character and reputation is already beyond repair and cannot ever be restored. He'll live out the rest of his life at Royal Lodge being seen riding a horse or driving a car. Quite a comedown for a man that for so long had such a high regard for himself and his place in the world and the scheme of things. He may still reside in Windsor in a Crown Estate property but the reality of it all is that he will basically be "exiled" and away from the life he once knew much like his Uncle David found himself to be living in Paris after the abdication.

Well said. I absolutely agree with every word of this. There are no winners here, not really. The damage this has caused to all parties involved and their reputations, families, etc. is really unfathomable. I do wonder what we'll see over the next few months in terms of Andrew's daughters, how they're coping, etc. I found it interesting that Sarah has put her YouTube show on pause for now. I really hate to think of the ways this will reverberate throughout the RF, though.

 

[Muhler]

Now what?

Surely there is no chance he will ever face a court, let alone an American court?

 

[Granada]

I can't imagine that Andrew isn't going to try to settle. Not just for him, but so that the whole Royal Family and Institution wont be dragged thru the mud.
The Queen must be devastated, to have this debacle in her Jubilee Year. I hope it doesn't affect her health. Terrible news like this can do that, at her age.
It was all so avoidable, if Andrew had been reined in years, decades ago. But nobody did. And now they are paying a terrible price.
Charles and William must be incandescent with fury.
But again, who enabled Andrew's behavior and allowed him to go rogue with all his questionable business deals, hang out other unsavory types as well as depraved Epstein ? From the very early 2000's too.
No one did anything. By that I mean the Queen and Philip.
Simply unbelievable. I wonder what other stories will come out ?

 

[Prinsara]

Is it possible to be convicted in absentia?

I imagine he will probably settle and we'll never hear the details.

 

[_Heather_]

Now what?

Surely there is no chance he will ever face a court, let alone an American court?

First I have to say that I'm in no way a legal expert. But, I can't imagine he'll ever allow himself to set foot in court. I would think at this point he'd probably go to great lengths to settle this for a number of reasons including to avoid those close to him, like Beatrice, having to be deposed. That said, I'm seeing social media chatter that seems to indicate that there's a slight possibility that he just won't show up and will allow a judgment to be entered against him because no one would be able to collect on it. I have no idea why that would be unless it's something to do with different countries, etc. but that is a possibility being floated around.

 

[Osipi]

Well said. I absolutely agree with every word of this. There are no winners here, not really. The damage this has caused to all parties involved and their reputations, families, etc. is really unfathomable. I do wonder what we'll see over the next few months in terms of Andrew's daughters, how they're coping, etc. I found it interesting that Sarah has put her YouTube show on pause for now. I really hate to think of the ways this will reverberate throughout the RF, though.

Ironically, one area where I'm wondering if the fallout from Andrew's mistakes and foibles and just pure bad judgment with his Epstein/Maxwell/Giuffre involvement that just happens to coincide with work being done by both of his daughters and his ex-wife is human/sex/trafficking.

Unless my memory refuses to give me good information, Eugenie is still the director of the Anti-Slavery Collective. I'm sure I could find the other organizations all three women are behind.

Its just ironic that something that Andrew is being named and accused of wrongdoing is very much in line with work his daughters and his ex-wife have been known to work against for years.

https://people.com/royals/princess-eugenie-un-conference-modern-slavery-with-princess-beatrice/

 

[Granada]

If the Settlement is big enough, I bet Virginia will go for it. Because as _Heather_ rightly points out, Virginia and her Legal Team will want the cash, not a Judgement that they can't collect on.
The Queen had to dig into her wallet to get a Diana's Divorce Settlement, as Charles didn't have the money then. I expect that her Advisors will want this wrapped up as fast as possible, and man, I bet its going to cost big.
Andrew will be shunned by the public and probably everyone in Family except The Queen and the other Yorks. A pariah. For bringing shame and dishonor to the Family. I bet his Military Associations go in days too.

 

[Claricecolin]

He has to try to settle. Otherwise he will be compelled to give a deposition and I don't think he wants that. The questions will she accept a settlement and where does he get the money?

 

[Osipi]

I don't believe that Andrew will settle. For him, it'd be admission of guilt and give the impression that he paid her to "go away" Andrew really, when you think about it, has nothing left to really lose. He will stick to his story to the very end. The reason I believe this is because of the reasoning handed down by the Metropolitan Police that have looked at the accusations of the London event and declared "no crime here".

To win a settlement off of Andrew (wherever he gets the money from), boils down to a court of law deeming that Andrew did use and abuse Ms. Giuffre. I don't think Giuffre has a leg to really stand on in proving legally that Andrew was responsible for her being a "victim". Now, if Giuffre was going against Epstein's estate for money, I think it'd be a horse of a whole different rainbow.

 

[Alison H]

As Osipi said, it's going to be quite difficult to prove - even though it's not a criminal court where you have to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe they're counting on Andrew settling rather than putting the Royal Family through the embarrassment of a court case, but I'm not sure that he will, because that would be effectively admitting guilt.

I really am sorry for the Queen. At the end of the day, Andrew is a grown man, and it wasn't really up to her or Prince Philip or Prince Charles or anyone else to tell him how to behave.

 

[Excalibur]

He has to try to settle. Otherwise he will be compelled to give a deposition and I don't think he wants that. The questions will she accept a settlement and where does he get the money?

But how would he be compelled to give the deposition? The US Courts have no authority over a citizen of a foreign country. All they can do is request extradition (not even sure they can do that for a civil proceeding), and I believe that the Met Police's statement of "no crime here" would quash that effort straight away.

 

[tommy100]

I think both sides are open to a settlement - Andrew's team will be hoping they can convince people so many US civil cases end up going to settlement and its not an admission of guilt. They'll be thinking (or he will) that it is a quicker, neater way to end the whole thing.

Giuffre and her team will know the other side will go after her reputation - remember she is claiming emotional distress so they'll want to ask about all sorts of personal things and they may make hay over the notion Giuffre helped recruit others for Epstein.

I guess it depends how strong a case Andrew's and his team feel they have against the claims.

 

[Granada]

Alison H, I understand what you are saying, but this wasn't just a Family 'matter'. This is the most prestigious Royal Family in the World. Who sit at the pinnacle of cultural and social power in the UK. And in Commonwealth Nations, although that seems to be declining.
A Firm, with the Queen as CEO. That just like other Companies, should not have let Andrew go rogue and turn a blind eye to his questionable associates and 'Friends". But they did, for decades. Now it is going to cost them greatly. In a public relations nightmare. All because a spoiled, arrogant and entitled jerk was never told NO.

Andrew was hanging around with Epstein-Maxwell since the early 2000's.

Yet, that's what happened. Caught up with a depraved paedophile and sex trafficker. And its not as if the Family didn't know about Ghislaine Maxwell's own disreputable Family's reputation in the UK.
Andrew was well known to be a buffoon and oaf, his behavior as "Roving Trade Ambassador" was leaked in dispatches. This is a man who rammed his Car through closed Gates at Windsor, instead of driving around to another entrance. Yes, that's on him.

But when he is bringing disrespect and ill repute to the Firm by hanging out with depraved Epstein or the wealthy Dictator's he was known to pal around with, that is Firm Business that should have been dealt with. But no-one ever did. He just kept on his merry Andrew way......
Bet now they wish they did. And I feel bad for Charles. He is the one that is going to deal with the fallout. The comments in the Daily Mail are absolutely scathing about the role or the need for the Monarchy going forward too.

 

[Osipi]

A Firm, with the Queen as CEO. That just like other Companies, should not have let Andrew go rogue and turn a blind eye to his questionable associates and 'Friends". But they did, for decades. Now it is going to cost them greatly. In a public relations nightmare. All because a spoiled, arrogant and entitled jerk was never told NO.

Any firm, anywhere can only do so much to reign in (no pun intended here) the actions and behaviors of their employees. Repercussions from Andrew's association with Epstein date as far back as 2011. That friendship played a huge part in Andrew's stepping down and away from being the UK's Trade Envoy. Epstein was part and not the whole of what was damaging Andrew's image at the time.

So, the "Firm" did, in a roundabout way (Andrew "stepped down") take care of itself and who was representing it. Andrew was curtailed, demoted and whatever other adjectives you want to apply.

The "Firm" and the family can only do so much to "curtail" Andrew (short of locking him in the Tower). I sincerely hope though that most people are intelligent enough to realize that Andrew's actions and words reflect Andrew and do *not* carry over to his family.