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  #4901  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
I donít think the Duke of York title will be taken away, but I think the Queen maybe regretting giving him the same title as her father and grandfather. It returning to the crown after Andrew is a small relief.
It is a title that is traditionally given (when available) to the second son of a British monarch.
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  #4902  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is a title that is traditionally given (when available) to the second son of a British monarch.
My guess is that once the title reverts to the crown upon Andrew's death, it won't be recreated again until Louis reaches his majority and gets married. He does hold the spot of the second son when William becomes the monarch.
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  #4903  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
That's just it though. If it goes to court he doesn't HAVE to do anything.

No-depositions. No embarrassing questions. No cooperation whatsoever. Just allow it to play out with the inevitable judgment in absentia decided against him....which it will be virtually impossible for his accuser to ever collect upon.
Why would it be "virtually impossible for his accuser to ever collect upon"?
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  #4904  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
My guess is that once the title reverts to the crown upon Andrew's death, it won't be recreated again until Louis reaches his majority and gets married. He does hold the spot of the second son when William becomes the monarch.
I don't think William would want to recreate his disgraced uncle's title for his son. Besides, Louis's status as his second son is moot now that Charlotte precedes him in the succession (meaning she will be William's second heir).

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  #4905  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:38 PM
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Unless Andrew is even more arrogant and stupid than I think he is....what little $$ he has is probably locked up in trust for his children and grandchildren.

Unless we are to assume that HMQ pays his settlement voluntarily how is the American court system planning get its hands on his money?
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  #4906  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:02 PM
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There has been tabloid talk of the possibility of "private parts" being mentioned in court as proof that VRG was intimate with PA.

Some veterans of this board may recall that nude photos of PA have been floating around the internet for years. Long ago, when he spent that school term in Canada, he was photographed frolicking naked in some sort of babbling brook. Nothing was left to the imagination. So, anyone could describe his physical attributes.

It's amazing to think that those old naked photos may help him!
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  #4907  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Unless Andrew is even more arrogant and stupid than I think he is....what little $$ he has is probably locked up in trust for his children and grandchildren.

Unless we are to assume that HMQ pays his settlement voluntarily how is the American court system planning get its hands on his money?
So it would just be splashed all over the papers that Andrew is not paying a court awarded judgment? All the while showing him living at Royal Lodge, riding his horses, living the same life of luxury that he always has. And then it would die down and go away? With no effect on the Queen and the rest of the royal family? The tabloids got on Harry and Meghan for years and they are just going to let it go when it comes to Andrew?
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  #4908  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucy Scot View Post
So it would just be splashed all over the papers that Andrew is not paying a court awarded judgment? All the while showing him living at Royal Lodge, riding his horses, living the same life of luxury that he always has. And then it would die down and go away? With no effect on the Queen and the rest of the royal family? The tabloids got on Harry and Meghan for years and they are just going to let it go when it comes to Andrew?
Why The world has seen oj Simpson do that for years
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  #4909  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucy Scot View Post
Why would it be "virtually impossible for his accuser to ever collect upon"?
Any judgment would only be in civil court. British citizens are not required to pay such judgments owed in another country unless they have assets there. I would assume that Andrew has no money invested in the US, so there is no way for Ms. Guiffre to collect even if she wins in court. If she gets any money it would have to come from a settlement, not imposed by a jury.
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  #4910  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:23 PM
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The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I don't think William would want to recreate his disgraced uncle's title for his son. Besides, Louis's status as his second son is moot now that Charlotte precedes him in the succession (meaning she will be William's second heir).

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Maybe.

But he could always think of it as granting his son what is traditionally the second sonís title. Tradition is pretty important in a monarchy.

Or the title his great grandfather had before becoming king.
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  #4911  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:27 PM
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If any RForum members with knowledge of legal/ financial/ international law could help us out by explaining how Ms. Giuffre might collect in Britain, where PA was formally cleared of any criminal wrongdoing i hope you will pitch in....
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  #4912  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyRaven View Post
Why The world has seen oj Simpson do that for years
OJ's mother isn't the Queen, and his brother isn't the future King.
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  #4913  
Old 01-14-2022, 12:03 AM
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Iím not experienced with collecting non-contractual judgments. But my limited understanding is that a U.S. judgment is viewed as a simple debt under British common law. The U.K. Courts will only honor compensatory damages, not punitive. And the debt will only be honored if the U.S. Court had jurisdiction under international law. I also think the judgment has to be final - itís not collectible until all appeals are over.

I do wonder if Andrew has any assets in other countries that do have reciprocal judgment agreements with the U.S. (from the Panama papers, we know that the Queen appears to have some offshore trusts, which is perfectly legal.)

As far as damage to the monarchy, I personally donít think it matters of Ms. Guiffre ever collects a dime. JMO.
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  #4914  
Old 01-14-2022, 12:15 AM
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Even if VG never collects any $$ from this lawsuit, it doesn't mean she gets no $$ from this whole saga.

Unless she was forbidden to do so under the terms of her settlement with Epstein could she not pursue book and film deals ?

Btw...when I read today that her attorney said she will only accept a settlement if it is accompanied by a written apology from PA admitting his guilt....it convinced me that Mars will be colonized before Andrew settles this case out of court.
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  #4915  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Great post. But outside of videotape how does Giuffre prove that Andrew forcibly raped her?

Especially in light of fellow Epstein victim 14 year old Carolyn Andriano's statement that not only did Giuffre recruit her, Giuffre also boasted of "getting to have sex" with Prince Andrew.

Other than he said she said...there is nothing else unless I am missing something.

For what it's worth...I do believe Andrew had sex with the young woman and does indeed remember doing so.

What I don't believe at all is that she had to be coerced in any way.
If he had sex with her he raped her as she was underage at the time she says they had sex and legally was not able to give consent.

She couldn't have bought a house from him, either. She wasn't old enough to make those kinds of decisions. The average teenager doesn't have the understanding of the world and the consequences of their actions to be able to make sound decisions. They have to be protected from older people who would take advantage of their inexperience.

There seems to be some pseudo-victim-blaming going on, calling into question her morals, reasons for pursuing the lawsuit, etc. I thought as a society we were better than that, that we had evolved. It seems so backward to me.
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  #4916  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GraceOMalleysGhost View Post
If he had sex with her he raped her as she was underage at the time she says they had sex and legally was not able to give consent.

.
No, legally she wasn't. The age of consent in England and New York at the time was 16 - VRG was 17. That's one of the reasons there is no criminal complaint against Andrew.
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  #4917  
Old 01-14-2022, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceOMalleysGhost View Post

There seems to be some pseudo-victim-blaming going on, calling into question her morals, reasons for pursuing the lawsuit, etc. I thought as a society we were better than that, that we had evolved. It seems so backward to me.
I find that being unquestioning of both sides to be a serious danger to our justice system. Accused has rights . If you want to get to a fair decision then one needs full facts . Not cherry picked stuff
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  #4918  
Old 01-14-2022, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
No, legally she wasn't. The age of consent in England and New York at the time was 16 - VRG was 17. That's one of the reasons there is no criminal complaint against Andrew.
Thanks, I stand corrected.
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  #4919  
Old 01-14-2022, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRaven View Post
I find that being unquestioning of both sides to be a serious danger to our justice system. Accused has rights . If you want to get to a fair decision then one needs full facts . Not cherry picked stuff
I was talking about the tone of some of the messages here, which to me (and others have said they feel the same) seems off. It has nothing to do with Andrew's rights, the US justice system or cherry picking.
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  #4920  
Old 01-14-2022, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceOMalleysGhost View Post
If he had sex with her he raped her as she was underage at the time she says they had sex and legally was not able to give consent.

She couldn't have bought a house from him, either. She wasn't old enough to make those kinds of decisions. The average teenager doesn't have the understanding of the world and the consequences of their actions to be able to make sound decisions. They have to be protected from older people who would take advantage of their inexperience.

There seems to be some pseudo-victim-blaming going on, calling into question her morals, reasons for pursuing the lawsuit, etc. I thought as a society we were better than that, that we had evolved. It seems so backward to me.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But as a survivor of the crime Ms. Giuffre is accusing the DoY of, I feel fairly certain that I am neither victim blaming nor "regressing" in any way.

I have struggled and still struggle to understand VG's actions in the light of the facts.

Seventeen is young, but not so young that she was unable to sense danger and seek help for herself if she'd wanted it. She was not a prisoner. I assume she was literate and aware that there were services all over NY and the US that she could have sought out for assistance from her plight?

A person can be tried as an adult for certain crimes at the age of 17 no matter how dysfunctional or abusive their background. If Ms. Giuffre was not responsible/liable for her decisions at that age...when exactly did things change? On her 18th birthday? Her 21st? When she collected her first cash settlement?

I have more sympathy for the 14 year old that VG lured into this sordid web. Did she warn poor young Carolyn that in return for living in mansions and jetting off to party with supermodels in the Med that she would be expected to bed down with sweaty middle aged men?
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