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  #4761  
Old 01-10-2022, 12:23 PM
Majesty
 
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well she may have been subjected to pressure from Maxwell to help recruit other girls. She may have been felt to be a good recruiter and trianed in it. if other girls feel that they were pressed and groomed into a life of prostitution they have the option of suing HER>
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  #4762  
Old 01-10-2022, 12:48 PM
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I just find it amazing that the one person that I would have figured would rein in ( pun intended ) Andrew did not. His father Prince Philip.

Back when the sordid allegations came to light, that the Family enforcer and supposed task master didn't clamp down hard on Andrew, read him the riot act and tell him ....nope. No more Epstein and Maxwell. And Maxwell's Family was a VERY well known scandalous Family in the UK too. Why didn't Philip act ? He was supposed to be a common sense "Man of the World". Who would call a spade a spade. Are we to believe that no-one was telling Philip or the Grey Men what was going on ? A public relations disaster could and did result.

And is ongoing. What happens if the case isn't thrown out ? Andrew will be forced to settle. There is no way He could risk deposition, discovery and a trial. God only know what other little gems would come to light. Especially during his years as Roving 'Trade Ambassador".

The Queen, always had this 'ostrich ability' to hide her head in the sand and ignore things She did not want to deal with. I guess I expected more from Philip. The debacles enveloping The Firm, from this Scandal to Harry and Meg actions and antics are shocking. It appears the entitlement and arrogance of two Princes that never heard the words "Stop and No" are unraveling the prestige and goodwill that the Queen built up for decades.
What a mess. With no end in sight either.
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  #4763  
Old 01-10-2022, 01:06 PM
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Philip wais an OLD OLD man. Honestly. I think that if he was younger, he would have read Andrew the Riot act but I dont think he was really up to dealing iwht wordly matters and problems for the past few years of his life.
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  #4764  
Old 01-10-2022, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Philip wais an OLD OLD man. Honestly. I think that if he was younger, he would have read Andrew the Riot act but I dont think he was really up to dealing iwht wordly matters and problems for the past few years of his life.
I agree with this. In fact, I remember vividly one example that kind of proves that Philip 's role as the "family enforcer" had drawn to a close (either by Philip's choosing or on his doctor's advice to reduce stress).

I'm sure I'll be corrected if my memory hasn't been fed enough caffeine and donuts yet today but I can still see the picture in my head that showed Philip in car going away from the Sandringham estate right before the summit meeting between the Queen, Charles and Harry and William was to start almost 2 years ago to the date. Showed that Philip was *not* getting involved in the mess.
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  #4765  
Old 01-10-2022, 01:32 PM
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Philip had been an old man for years. He might have read Andrew the Riot Act some fifteen years ago but not later.

It's surprising to me that he did not. I can only assume they made the collective mistake of thinking that this, too, shall pass. For some reason, they didn't think it this important.

Should have taken a leaf out of Mete Marit's book. She did apologize for maintaining friendship with Epstein after the storm came out. But she did maintain them.

No one thought things would go this far, as incredible as it is.
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  #4766  
Old 01-10-2022, 01:40 PM
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Denville, agreed for the last few years but previously ? He was still the Patriarch of the Family-Firm. The Queens 'strength and stay'.
Did Mi5 and The Royal Protection Services not report that Andrew was hanging out with a notorious man with a known predilection for young girls. that Andrew was keeping company with him ? All the way back to 2001 ? Inviting this degenerate to Buckingham Place and Balmoral ? How many red flags were ignored ?
Again, this started in the very early 2000's. Philip was supposedly very involved in the Firm Business.
I don't think Philip really started stepping back till 2016. He formally retired in 2017.

I am disgusted and so disappointed in all this. I think the harm to the Royal Family is lasting and ongoing. And Charles is going to pay a steep price for the in actions of others.
I also believe that Andrew looked at 17 year old Virginia as a gift, like something out of a novel of Roman Aristocrats and debauchery. Did he care ? Why was a 41 year old Man hanging out with her ? She was a present to be used and discarded. That She was being exploited or trafficked He didn't care. I wonder what other skeletons are waiting to come out of Royal Lodges closets ?
Sexual exploitation of kids and teens makes me sick. And that Andrew is either lying about knowing her, OR pretending he didn't know a 17 year old teen was part of Epstein's working harem is unbelievable.
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  #4767  
Old 01-10-2022, 02:17 PM
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On the other hand, it's possible that everyone under the sun including the voices in Fergie's head could have repeatedly and strongly cautioned, advised,, admonished, cajoled with and pleaded with Andrew about associating with Epstein (especially after his Florida conviction) and Andrew simply chose to ignore it all and do what he felt best.

Isn't that the sole reason that embarrassing and disastrous interview happened? Andrew *knew better* and chose to go against being advised keeping his trap shut.
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  #4768  
Old 01-10-2022, 02:47 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I agree with this. In fact, I remember vividly one example that kind of proves that Philip 's role as the "family enforcer" had drawn to a close (either by Philip's choosing or on his doctor's advice to reduce stress).

I'm sure I'll be corrected if my memory hasn't been fed enough caffeine and donuts yet today but I can still see the picture in my head that showed Philip in car going away from the Sandringham estate right before the summit meeting between the Queen, Charles and Harry and William was to start almost 2 years ago to the date. Showed that Philip was *not* getting involved in the mess.
Of course he was not up to anything like that and I think while he was still compos mentis, even in the last couple of years, he was a bit slow at taking things in.. and probably the family did not want to worry him about outside things in his last years. I think that there was some mention back when the Andrew interview happened, that Phillip WHEN HE TOOK IT In, was firmly of the opinion that Andrew had to give up his duties..... but it may have taken him some time to absorb it all..... I think when the Harry and Meghan thing happened, it was clearly decided that it would be the queen and Charles who dealt iwht it and Phil was left to take things easy for his last year or so. Besides I agree that its very likely that Andrew might have been advised and warned and so on lots of times but goes his own sweet way.
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  #4769  
Old 01-10-2022, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
On the other hand, it's possible that everyone under the sun including the voices in Fergie's head could have repeatedly and strongly cautioned, advised,, admonished, cajoled with and pleaded with Andrew about associating with Epstein (especially after his Florida conviction) and Andrew simply chose to ignore it all and do what he felt best.

Isn't that the sole reason that embarrassing and disastrous interview happened? Andrew *knew better* and chose to go against being advised keeping his trap shut.
I think Andrew knew exactly what the score was. There was a Vanity Fair article titled, "The Trouble with Andrew" that tells of a friend of Andrew's warning Andrew about Epstein's sordidness. This was when Epstein was just gaining attention before his softball conviction. Andrew told his friend to leave him alone and added "you're such a Puritan."

This is easily found via google.
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  #4770  
Old 01-10-2022, 06:01 PM
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well she may have been subjected to pressure from Maxwell to help recruit other girls. She may have been felt to be a good recruiter and trianed in it. if other girls feel that they were pressed and groomed into a life of prostitution they have the option of suing HER>
Apparently, Maxwell asked many of the girls to help her recruit. My understanding is most of them didn't. Ms. Giuffre was victim, but that doesn't give her the right to victimize others. She was 17 when she allegedly recruited the victim, who says she was 14 at the time. There is no excuse for that and if it is true, she is not worth my sympathy or understanding.

That doesn't mean that Andrew is an innocent victim but it does cast doubt on Ms. Giuffre's claims that she was traumatized by Epstein and Maxwell. If it was that bad for her, why did she subject at least one other child to that?

Apparently, the younger victim decided not to sue Ms. Giuffre and the staute of limitations has expired. I think it is reasonable to assume that she didn't want to go through the stress of a civil suit.
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  #4771  
Old 01-11-2022, 09:37 PM
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I had a thought.

(Stop smirking, you guys!)

Seriously, there has been a lot of commentary about how Andrew's reality is so different and otherworldly. That is not an excuse for anything. I am acutely aware that I am sounding very American there, but the BRF prides itself on its connection with regular people. Prince Philip in a factory asking about refrigerator insulation. HM adjusting a lowly officer's medal, as a mother would do for her son.


A smarter man might be able to see beyond a palace world, especially after attending that school in Canada (Lakeville?) and then spending years in the Royal Navy.

It seems to me that this prolonged run of extremely bad press might have unpredictable consequences, no matter how the court procedure goes. With a new monarch comes a new broom, and I don't think Andrew is quite ready to be shunted away into a semi owned by the Duchy. But, that new monarch, whenever he ascends, will surely shunt. Not good for the DoY's mental state, he has to plan.

A modest villa in a Spanish golf community, maybe. I think the Duke should make plans.
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  #4772  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:34 PM
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Make plans to leave Royal Lodge? According to the will of his late grandmother it's his. For life.

Why should/ would he need to vacate his home and move away from his children and grandchildren?

I wouldn't.
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  #4773  
Old 01-12-2022, 01:57 AM
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Personally I feel that he will - or rather will be pushed to do so. It is just he is too visible at Windsor. It gives the wrong the impression. I do think that going forward he will be asked, as will his children to move off the Windsor estates. I think that the Queen will not do it - but Charles will.
If you think about it - the rest of the broader family have been moved off. And that was part of the wider picture going forward. The Yorks need to move with the programme or will be moved.
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  #4774  
Old 01-12-2022, 02:34 AM
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I don't agree. Andrew is going to be "visible" wherever he lives...Windsor. Spain. The Moon. He cannot be stripped of his title except by act of Parliament, and he can't be stripped of his home period.

It is his, granted to him by his grandmother.

As for " the Yorks" needing to move...why should the blameless Eugenie and Beatrice be punished? To make good PR brownie points and visuals for squeaky clean Charles and the equally pristine William?

I don't know about Eugenie's situation but Beatrice is fortunate enough to have a husband who can support her more than adequately without help from the taxpayers.

And he has. They can live wherever they please.

Not sure why all this ill will exists towards those young women. They have done nothing to deserve being tarred by the same brush as their parents...yet they always are.
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  #4775  
Old 01-12-2022, 03:53 AM
Majesty
 
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Yes, quite silly IMO to think that the RF will shove him out of his home where it is easier for him to be secure and stay out of reach of the press
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  #4776  
Old 01-12-2022, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I had a thought.

(Stop smirking, you guys!)

Seriously, there has been a lot of commentary about how Andrew's reality is so different and otherworldly. That is not an excuse for anything. I am acutely aware that I am sounding very American there, but the BRF prides itself on its connection with regular people. Prince Philip in a factory asking about refrigerator insulation. HM adjusting a lowly officer's medal, as a mother would do for her son.


A smarter man might be able to see beyond a palace world, especially after attending that school in Canada (Lakeville?) and then spending years in the Royal Navy.

It seems to me that this prolonged run of extremely bad press might have unpredictable consequences, no matter how the court procedure goes. With a new monarch comes a new broom, and I don't think Andrew is quite ready to be shunted away into a semi owned by the Duchy. But, that new monarch, whenever he ascends, will surely shunt. Not good for the DoY's mental state, he has to plan.

A modest villa in a Spanish golf community, maybe. I think the Duke should make plans.

It seems the Duke of York has a contract with the Crown Estate for the usufruct of the Royal Lodge, the Chapel Lodge, seven Lodge cottages, security accommodation and 40 hectares of land. That contract expires in August 2078, so it is for the Duke's (and his daughters') lifetime to enjoy.
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  #4777  
Old 01-12-2022, 10:31 AM
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Andrew has lost the appeal, it's Breaking News here in the UK.
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  #4778  
Old 01-12-2022, 10:47 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Andrew denied. So it is now either settle or face a trial. I get the feeling she wants that trial. Will be interesting how Andrew and his team proceed.
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  #4779  
Old 01-12-2022, 10:51 AM
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That is right, a trial it is. There can't be very many happy people in Royal Lodge today.
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  #4780  
Old 01-12-2022, 10:58 AM
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I get the impression they are settling
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