The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Gawin]

One would think Andrew had an armada of specialists working for the royal family to prepare him for the interview and that all the answers would have been the subject of considerable reflection beforehand especially if the queen and Prince Charles gave their go to the interview.

It is indeed puzzling. Supposedly the interview came after six months of negotiations between the BBC and the royal household. Andrew and his advisors had plenty of time to think it through, prepare, and rehearse.

 

[Osipi]

One would think Andrew had an armada of specialists working for the royal family to prepare him for the interview and that all the answers would have been the subject of considerable reflection beforehand especially if the queen and Prince Charles gave their go to the interview.

He probably did have a wide array of people he could have gone to and prepared to face the interview. It wouldn't be surprising if, for the most part, that he was advised not to do the interview but once declaring he would go ahead with it (his final decision only), all kinds of advice and suggestions and assistance were offered but Andrew refused having the "I got this" attitude.

Another thing this kind of sprung into my head thinking along these lines is that Andrew most likely rarely, if ever, has written his own speeches for events and engagements he's attended. Many royal speeches are not written by the royals themselves and with Andrew and his responses from the interview, I don't think he's overly competent putting his thoughts into words.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Andrew is off the royal guest list for the reception of NATO leaders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...m-palace-nato-prince-andrew-a9219296.html?amp

Harry, Meghan, Sophie and William are not attending for various reasons. The irony of Trump coming considering his ties to Epstien. The BRF better brace itself for another car crash interview because Trump will most likely be asked about Andrew.

Well Hillary was out there bragging that she'd met Archie and Bill Clinton was just as tied to Epstein as Trump. Not that I have any love for Trump but it's going to be hard to avoid people who had contact with Epstein because they all seemed to. I can see how Trump can get out of being asked questions by the FBI because he's president but Bill Clinton isn't anymore. Even Bill Gates was hanging out with Epstein. And the daughter of the former prime minister of Australia.

 

[texankitcat]

If the Queen and Prince Charles approved the interview they both showed very poor judgment.

In hindsight absolutely, but is it confirmed that they both approved it? If so I have to wonder what the6 were told as to the full extent of the interview.

 

[Osipi]

Well Hillary was out there bragging that she'd met Archie and Bill Clinton was just as tied to Epstein as Trump. Not that I have any love for Trump but it's going to be hard to avoid people who had contact with Epstein because they all seemed to. I can see how Trump can get out of being asked questions by the FBI because he's president but Bill Clinton isn't anymore. Even Bill Gates was hanging out with Epstein. And the daughter of the former prime minister of Australia.

This is really what gives credence to the statement made by Alan Dershowitz that "“In those days, if you didn’t know Trump and you didn’t know Epstein, you were a nobody,” as in the 20th century, a status symbol for a woman was to own and wear mink and the Joneses were to be kept up with. Seems Epstein and Trump were the "It" guys among movers and shakers. Little did most of them realize what lurked beneath all the glitter and gold.

 

[Betsypaige]

I haven't heard a thing about Charles approving the interview, and what I've heard of the Queen in that regard is that she wasn't fully aware of all the details/what the interview was going to consist of, etc. - most likely because Andrew didn't volunteer that info, or he mislead her.

 

[Gawin]

In hindsight absolutely, but is it confirmed that they both approved it? If so I have to wonder what the6 were told as to the full extent of the interview.

No, it hasn't been confirmed, just stated in an article tommy100 referred to. I doubt we'll ever know the full details behind this disaster.

 

[QueenMathilde]

No, it hasn't been confirmed, just stated in an article tommy100 referred to. I doubt we'll ever know the full details behind this disaster.

The story has changed but the recent story is that everyone tried to talk Andrew out of the interview - even Sarah and Beatrice.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I've read several places that the person who encouraged Andrew to do the interview was his just sacked private secretary Amanda Thirsk. His PR person, Jason Stein advised him not to do the interview and quit a month ago.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sarah...hirsk-as-prince-andrew-blame-game-accelerates

 

[texankitcat]

Thank you for your kind response. Hopefully the Epstein investigation will continue and eventually his victims will have some closure. I definitely think Andrew should cooperate with the FBI, not only to shed light on Epstein but on Ghislaine Maxwell as well. IMO she's the key that needs to be found.

Oh I am quite sure of that! On the other hand I’m sure there are more than a few that would prefer she stays hidden.

 

[Leopoldine]

One would think Andrew had an armada of specialists working for the royal family to prepare him for the interview and that all the answers would have been the subject of considerable reflexion beforehand especially if the Queen and Prince Charles gave their go to the interview.

A simple research assistant, even a doofus like me, could have more helpful than Andrew's staff.

In August 2011, Edward Klein, a prominent NY media figure, wrote an article in Vanity Fair called "The Trouble With Andrew".

https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/share/ac60f552-4163-4d39-a36b-d2014fe20062


This was in the wake of the NY Post publishing the infamous Central Park photo.

A person who was not identified and who knows both men claimed to have had this exchange with Andrew:


“After Jeffrey was convicted, I phoned Andrew and told him, ‘You cannot have a relationship with Jeffrey. You can’t do these things.’ And he said, ‘Stop giving me a hard time. You’re such a puritan.’ From there, our conversation descended into a screaming match, and finally Andrew said, ‘Leave me alone. Jeffrey’s my friend. Being loyal to your friends is a virtue. And I’m going to be loyal to him."

I think Andrew knew exactly what was going on in Epstein's homes.

 

[Claire]

A“After Jeffrey was convicted, I phoned Andrew and told him, ‘You cannot have a relationship with Jeffrey. You can’t do these things.’ And he said, ‘Stop giving me a hard time. You’re such a puritan.’ From there, our conversation descended into a screaming match, and finally Andrew said, ‘Leave me alone. Jeffrey’s my friend. Being loyal to your friends is a virtue. And I’m going to be loyal to him."

I know that several of the members of the royal family have been told (read dictated to ) about whom they are allowed to be friends with - and who they need to cut ties with for appearance sake. This was especially true in the 1980 and 1990's. Andrew might simply have been acting out of rebelliousness. The way he ran his life was dictated to him when he was high enough in the line of succession to be considered important. Maybe this new freedom combined with arrogance was just too much for him.
I would like to note that I am in no way excusing his behavior here - but I do wonder if Andrew's loneness and isolation might also come into play here. He found a friend and was willing to look the other way for the sake of the friendship. Yes - if Sarah was receiving money it complicate the matter.

 

[princess carmen]

I don't think friendship had so much to do with it, Andrew said he didn't regret the connections he made through Epstein. I think money and connections were the key. If this is the kind of friend he wanted then that says a lot about him.

I have just read that the Senior military leaders have called for Andrew to be stripped of his honorary titles.

I have no idea it this is true it is the Mail.

 

[Curryong]

Andrew's Honorary service rankings in the three Armed Services.
From Wiki
appointments
Canada Canada
Canada Colonel-in-Chief of the Queen's York Rangers (1st American Regiment)[167]
Canada Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada[167]
Canada Colonel-in-Chief of the Princess Louise Fusiliers[167]
Canada Colonel-in-Chief of the Canadian Airborne Regiment (disbanded)
New Zealand New Zealand
New Zealand Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal New Zealand Army Logistic Regiment[167]
United Kingdom United Kingdom
1 February 1984: Personal Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen (AdC(P))[158]
United Kingdom Colonel of the Grenadier Guards[168]
United Kingdom Colonel-in-Chief of the 9th/12th Royal Lancers (Prince of Wales's)[167]
United Kingdom Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Irish Regiment (27th (Inniskilling) 83rd and 87th and Ulster Defence Regiment)[167]
United Kingdom Colonel-in-Chief of the Small Arms School Corps[167]
United Kingdom Colonel-in-Chief of the Yorkshire Regiment (14th/15th, 19th and 33rd/76th Foot)[167]
United Kingdom Royal Colonel of the Royal Highland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland[167]
United Kingdom Honorary Air Commodore, Royal Air Force Lossiemouth[167]
United Kingdom Commodore-in-Chief of the Fleet Air Arm[167]
United Kingdom Admiral of the Sea Cadet Corps[167]

I presume this is what the tabloids are talking about. I'm sure most of these regiments, battalions etc want nothing more to do with Andrew. The trouble is I think that, at least with the Hon Colonelcies in the British Army, they are given by the Queen. Whether she would be willing to strip her son of everything except the Commodore rank he reached in his service years in the Royal Navy is pretty doubtful, IMO.

 

[Denville]

I don't think friendship had so much to do with it, Andrew said he didn't regret the connections he made through Epstein. I think money and connections were the key. If this is the kind of friend he wanted then that says a lot about him.

It was a friendship yes but it was a friendship based on what Ep could do for Andrew.. as Andrew said.. he didn't regret it.. because of the connextions he made.. he liked Epstein because Epstein provided him and Sarah with financial assistance and connexions to other rich people who could alos help him. That's what he wanted. If Epstein had been a nice interesting man but not rich and connected, would Andrew have bothered to stay "friends" with him?

 

[Mbruno]

I presume this is what the tabloids are talking about. I'm sure most of these regiments, battalions etc want nothing more to do with Andrew. The trouble is I think that, at least with the Hon Colonelcies in the British Army, they are given by the Queen. Whether she would be willing to strip her son of everything except the Commodore rank he reached in his service years in the Royal Navy is pretty doubtful, IMO.

What about his honorary ranks in the Armed Forces of Commonwealth realms like Canada and New Zealand ? Would it be up to the respective Commonwealth realm Governor General to strip him of those ranks (possibly on the advice of the realm government) ?

It was a friendship yes but it was a friendship based on what Ep could do for Andrew.. as Andrew said.. he didn't regret it.. because of the connextions he made.. he liked Epstein because Epstein provided him and Sarah with financial assistance and connexions to other rich people who could alos help him. That's what he wanted. If Epstein had been a nice interesting man but not rich and connected, would Andrew have bothered to stay "friends" with him?

What you said is most likely true, but, in a way, it could paradoxically be used in Andrew's defense. In other words, he socialized with Epstein for the financial assistance and connections he could provide, and not for the sexual favors he could get from Epstein's girls, which is actually his version of their relationship, isn't it ?


PS: I apologize for using US spelling ("socialize", "favor", "defense", "connections"), but I understand both US and UK spelling are accepted in these forums.

 

[Curryong]

Yes I believe it would be up to the GGs of the respective realms to act to strip Andrew of honorary ranks in their armed services. I don't think any of them would act without consulting Buckingham Palace, however.

 

[Mirabel]

I doubt Charles approved the interview; he was in another country at the time.
Besides, he is well-aware of the perils of those interviews designed to clear the air.

I think he now understands Philip's strictures to never, never, never talk about family matters to the press.

 

[ACO]

What you said is most likely true, but, in a way, it could paradoxically be used in Andrew's defense. In other words, he socialized with Epstein for the financial assistance and connections he could provide, and not for the sexual favors he could get from Epstein's girls, which is actually his version of their relationship, isn't it ?

And also used against him. If he saw anything he would clearly turn a blind eye because he liked the perks provided and would help protect it to maintain.

Andrew made it perfectly clear he valued those benefits over all when he said he had no regrets.

 

[Denville]

And also used against him. If he saw anything he would clearly turn a blind eye because he liked the perks provided and would help protect it to maintain.

Andrew made it perfectly clear he valued those benefits over all when he said he had no regrets.

Since Andrew was doing the interview to counter the accusations of sexual misbehaviour he was hardly going to say taht he was happy with the friendship because it got him girls. He denied knowing Virginia Guiffree or having sex with her.. so even he was hardly stupid enough to admit that one fo the perks of a firendshp with Epstein was that Ep had girls around who were there to amuse his friends.
He probably appreciated both perks of the friendship, the money and contacts wit moneyed people.. and the girls who were there

 

[Winnie]

Proof please....

On this part I agree. No proof or Andrew would be in trouble with the law and legally charged, not just media hanging. It is getting to be mob mentality. Very dangerous. People's lives have been destroyed over certain false stories. I am not saying that Andrew was smart in keeping Epstein as a friend or that Fergie should EVER has taken money from him, but that does not mean he knew everything about Epstein's personal life. Hell Clintons and Oprah knew him a lot better but they are still lily pure, how come? Something still not quite right in all this.

 

[Somebody]

On this part I agree. No proof or Andrew would be in trouble with the law and legally charged, not just media hanging. It is getting to be mob mentality. Very dangerous. People's lives have been destroyed over certain false stories. I am not saying that Andrew was smart in keeping Epstein as a friend or that Fergie should EVER has taken money from him, but that does not mean he knew everything about Epstein's personal life. Hell Clintons and Oprah knew him a lot better but they are still lily pure, how come? Something still not quite right in all this.

It is indeed weird how the focus has been so much on Andrew and not on others. Of course there is a specific accusation against Andrew and the current focus on him is hugely enlarged by his own decision to do the interview; but still you would also expect a media storm around other 'rich and famous' than prince Andrew.

 

[ACO]

Well there is interest on Andrew because he was dumb enough to be seen in a private setting with him. Also we have the alleged victims personally calling him out. This has been going on for years but no one else was dumb enough to go on TV and blatantly lie.

 

[sndral]

I thought Andrew’s rather clumsy attempts to minimize his friendship with Epstein by claiming that he wasn’t that close to him would backfire - there were just too many witnesses describing more visits than Andrew claimed in his interview, he was pictured vacationing with him in Thailand, etc.. Getting a massage from an adult isn’t illegal of course, but stories such as this one simply show that Ghislaine/Andrew/Epstein were closer than Andrew is trying to paint at present.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/ghisl...o-buckingham-palace-for-prince-andrew-report/
And then there’s Victoria Hervey thinking of writing a tell all, she was 23 when she dated Andrew and not coerced. https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/princ...l-tell-all-book-detailing-epstein-debauchery/

 

[Osipi]

The interview actually resulted in more questions than clear up issues which, I think, was Andrew's intent in the first place. For all we know, he could have totally been telling the truth about his friendship with Epstein but to go on national TV and give the impression that there is lots more to the story than Andrew was willing to admit just points to not only bad decisions but also being very ill prepared for that face to face interview.

I could see Joe Public bumbling through those questions but Andrew has had a lifetime of being front and center and even making speeches so to see him so ill at ease and coming up with, as I see it, stupid answers that were easily disproved, so its hard to believe anything coming out of his mouth.

I think I've said it before and I'll say it again. "You can't fix stupid".

 

[Denville]

The interview actually resulted in more questions than clear up issues which, I think, was Andrew's intent in the first place. For all we know, he could have totally been telling the truth about his friendship with Epstein but to go on national TV and give the impression that there is lots more to the story than Andrew was willing to admit just points to not only bad decisions but also being very ill prepared for that face to face interview.

I could see Joe Public bumbling through those questions but Andrew has had a lifetime of being front and center and even making speeches so to see him so ill at ease and coming up with, as I see it, stupid answers that were easily disproved, so its hard to believe anything coming out of his mouth.

I think I've said it before and I'll say it again. "You can't fix stupid".

This was not stupid so much as disgraceful. He is a member of Britian's premier family.. and he hung around with a convicted criminal.. whose crime involved under age girls.. and prostitution. He lied repeatedly during that interview.. presumably because he thought that people watching him would believe what he said because he was so superior to them..
He showed no regrets for his friendship - he said so himself.. because he had found it useful to make connexions through this man.. and he showed no sympathy for Epstein's victims.. because he felt no sympathy...

 

[Alison H]

There isn't really a precedent for this. Members of the Royal Family have chosen to give up their royal duties for various reasons - health, choice of partner, etc - but this hasn't really happened before. The Hanoverians were always getting involved in scandals, but they didn't carry out modern-style royal duties. So no-one really knows how it works. Whilst he hasn't been found guilty of anything, and I wish the press would stop acting as if he had, he's brought the Royal Family into disrepute ... and the press are loving it because there's nothing else in the news at the moment apart from the election campaign.

 

[texankitcat]

I thought Andrew’s rather clumsy attempts to minimize his friendship with Epstein by claiming that he wasn’t that close to him would backfire - there were just too many witnesses describing more visits than Andrew claimed in his interview, he was pictured vacationing with him in Thailand, etc.. Getting a massage from an adult isn’t illegal of course, but stories such as this one simply show that Ghislaine/Andrew/Epstein were closer than Andrew is trying to paint at present.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/ghisl...o-buckingham-palace-for-prince-andrew-report/
And then there’s Victoria Hervey thinking of writing a tell all, she was 23 when she dated Andrew and not coerced. https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/princ...l-tell-all-book-detailing-epstein-debauchery/

I just watched an interview with Victoria Hervey she did with Good Morning Britain. She is good friends with Ghislaine and stayed at an apartment owned by Epstein in NY., but not his residence. She felt like she was being watched so moved to a friend’s place after a few days. Other than, she talked about attending a few dinner parties and meeting famous people, but not much else. She never saw or heard anything and was never hit on by Epstein. The only thing she said about Andrew is he would never go on national television unless he was 100% telling the truth, which is a completely ridiculous thing to say considering the lies he was caught telling. She also tried to downplay the charges against Epstein. So what is she going to write about? Knowing nothing, seeing nothing and how honest Andrew is? Sounds like a best seller.

Sorry, I’ll pass on that book.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I assumed that Andrew meant that through Epstein he made useful contacts for support of many charitable affiliations and International business ideas he illuminated.
His interview showed a man who was not a polished communicator and someone who might be easily duped by a clever and boastful creep.

I don't think Andrew deserves to have his awards stripped unless he is found guilty of a crime. Otherwise the 'stripping of awards police' should suggest many people lose their awards for bad behaviour.

 

[texankitcat]

Andrew never saw or was aware of underaged girls coming and going while staying with Epstein.....

2010 - New York