The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[tommy100]

The Queen pays him allowances out of her personal income and will continue to do so to support his private staff etc. She could threaten to withhold that from him if needed. I just think whilst its right he couldn't go on representing the Queen and country overseas or at home with all this going on, nor do the vast majority of the public want him to, as Gawin quoted, whats the point of him without that?

If he tries going into business the press will raise merry hell, if he keeps jetting around the world meeting famous people and rich people he'll be the party prince "who does nothing". I hope somewhere the RF's best aides are working out a very discreet, very unpublic role that he can fill purely to keep him from getting into trouble. If he was less big headed and a bit more countryside savy he could have been given one of the private estates to run or similar, tbh I'm at a loss to think of what he could do but just something that he can go and do and keep out the way.

I completely agree about the RF becoming more centralised, this whole debacle has highlighted how much of a myth it is to suggest there really is even a "firm" at work here. really this is lots of people from a family getting on and doing what they do completely separately from each other. TBH that does work in some ways because usually you are talking about royals like Edward and Sophie, Anne or the Gloucester's who rarely raise even half an eyebrow from the press or public so can just be "trusted" to get on with their own thing with their own staff. But when you throw people like Andrew into that situation it backfires completely. The fact that needs to be learnt is that whatever each individual royal does it100% has an affect on the monarchy as a whole so therefore surely the monarchy from BP must have an iron grip over what each of these family members and their staff do. In some ways I'm not surprised, remember the Queen's much trusted competent Private Secretary Sir Geidt left in part because he wanted to greater unite the Households, he was talking about Charles and his staff and William and his working better with the Queen's staff but I guess if the three main players who have the most to lose weren't woking together why should we have suspected that that the other royals were.

 

[Osipi]

Aside from the sex trafficking v sex offender argument, I was thinking that as necessary as making Andrew step aside was required, will it not possibly create problems in the long run, especially if Charles and William really do want him to step aside for good.

I honestly think we've seen Andrew being put out to pasture permanently. If the intent was to disappear from the public eye and royal duties and engagements until the Epstein investigation is concluded and Andrew's name "cleared", why remove Andrew from his charity roles and rename and rebrand his Pitch@Palace to "Pitch" and move his office out of BP if there was any intent of him returning to them again? I think the wording of the "official announcement" was carefully composed to sound kind and perhaps allow Andrew to somewhat "save face". It is kinder to word something "official" with "It with regret that we announce.." rather than "Due to lack of character we..." Its a neutral and objective way of stating something rather than being subjective and judgmental. This is what I believe has happened and Andrew is the first of the Queen's children to leave the "Firm".

Everything else is a character study of human nature. Just because Andrew is good at digging himself a huge hole, hedges on questions asked and beats around the bush answering direct questions, it doesn't make him a professional landscaper. It gives us clues though into who this man is. Most of us here are quite familiar with Andrew's demeanor and can point out reasons, even before this Epstein controversy, examples of arrogance, entitlement and "highness". What Andrew did or did not know, only *he* really knows but we can see signs pointing to that he may have clearly seen or then again, he may of been oblivious to the signs because they didn't register with him. Some people look for the "women" sign for a restroom. Others don't. It would depend on the gender.

The President of the US stated once “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Mr. Trump told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” Alan Dershowitz, who now has filed a defamation of character suit against Ms. Giuffre is on record as saying
“In those days, if you didn’t know Trump and you didn’t know Epstein, you were a nobody,” There are probably many more statements along these lines. Its observations of Epstein's draw to the rich and powerful. Add Andrew, with his sense of "entitlement" and we can easily see why Andrew was drawn to Epstein. None of these men in this paragraph are accused of knowing about Epsteins' sex trafficking ring but are solely guilty of being "drawn in" by Epstein and that, in of itself, questions their own moral character.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/us/politics/trump-epstein.html

Do I think Andrew knew what was going on around him? I can honestly say that I don't know. A lot of things point to the possibility that Andrew can and does go through life oblivious to what's around him and in general, lots of people surrounding him could be like "white noise" to a person that's been in crowds and in the public eye for his entire life. A lot of things points to flashing neon lights that Andrew couldn't have missed but chose to. Only Andrew really knows and after that fiasco of an interview, I don't think we'll ever really know. He's not about to do a second interview and be direct with his answers.

All in all, steps have been taken that do tell Andrew that he reaps what he sows and he's lost a *lot*. Its his "Novemberinium Horriblis". There's no turning back from this. Will he learn a lesson from all this? I don't know. The general public has long memories and we've not seen the BBC NewsNight interview with Ms. Giuffre yet. Thanks to Andrew's interview and its repercussions, the Giuffre interview most likely will receive even a higher viewing rating and in a way that's positive for her. Her message will reach more people than if Andrew had remained silent, kept calm and carried on.

Just my thoughts here.

 

[texankitcat]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Andrew going forward. It’s quite the mess, but I don’t see how he can recover at this point. I hope his stepping down will be permanent since he has shown throughout the years that he is has incredibly bad judgement which has repeatedly embarrassed TRF. It has to stop.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Do you think that Prince Andrew will eventually write a book about his version of the Epstein ordeal?

 

[Gawin]

Do you think that Prince Andrew will eventually write a book about his version of the Epstein ordeal?

He might want to. But unless he provides convincing evidence that he's innocent of Virginia Giuffre's accusation (which his interview failed to provide) he needs to shut up.

 

[WillVictoria]

Do you think that Prince Andrew will eventually write a book about his version of the Epstein ordeal?

He could, that doesn't make it a good idea. If for some unknown reason he felt compelled to I hope he'd have it ghostwritten, because his interview proved he isn't great at communicating his thoughts or ideas to the public.

 

[Osipi]

Do you think that Prince Andrew will eventually write a book about his version of the Epstein ordeal?

I can't think of any good purpose of penning a book on his life and times with Epstein would provide for Andrew. He'd have to write more than a few words that would belie his claim that he "really wasn't that close" to Epstein. Anything more than what would amount to a pamphlet would prove an "in depth" analysis on Andrew's part of the whole controversy.

He'll be better off keeping a pencil with an eraser handy for tabulating his golf scores. It would be much more pleasurable for him as he loves to golf.

 

[Somebody]

If he tries going into business the press will raise merry hell, if he keeps jetting around the world meeting famous people and rich people he'll be the party prince "who does nothing". I hope somewhere the RF's best aides are working out a very discreet, very unpublic role that he can fill purely to keep him from getting into trouble. If he was less big headed and a bit more countryside savy he could have been given one of the private estates to run or similar, tbh I'm at a loss to think of what he could do but just something that he can go and do and keep out the way.

I agree with you and others that 'something' must be thought up for Andrew. He won't completely disappear but what can he do that would not potentially be construed negatively or lead to greater damage. I am curious to see what they come up with to keep him somewhat busy while preferably keeping him out of the 'rich and famous businessmen' especially in combination with - in some way - 'needy people' (which is exactly what Pitch is all about).

He'll be better off keeping a pencil with an eraser handy for tabulating his golf scores. It would be much more pleasurable for him as he loves to golf.

Well, they could send him to Mallorca and have him play golf with princess Birgitta; she seems perfectly happy doing that every single day for years in a row

 

[Osipi]

Actually something golf related may be an excellent idea. Andrew loves golfing and with that as his focus, his interest would be centered and focused on the sport. No clue here actually how to implement it though.

 

[Betsypaige]

Well, here's something new..

I think this is a really wise course of action. For one thing, I love that Charles is going to see his father, just to see him. For another, I think it's a good idea to take some time to digest everything before reading the riot act to Andrew - and saying things that he might regret. We have to remember that, after all, they are brothers, so while Charles is undoubtedly livid and will want to ensure that Andrew is out of everyone's hair so to speak in terms of official functions, he's got to keep the "professional" from the personal. Andrew is being retired from the BRF as to appearances, etc., but he's still their son, brother, etc.. Lastly, I think Philip has a lot of wisdom to offer and I'm glad Charles is availing himself of that.

The heir arrived back in the UK during the early hours before going to the Norfolk estate where Prince Philip, 98, now spends large parts of his retirement.

Charles, 71, has decided against summoning his brother immediately to give him a dressing down over his “car crash” interview with BBC Newsnight, well-placed sources have revealed.

He has chosen to stay at Sandringham for the rest of the week in order to catch up with his father and have time to “listen to and digest his advice”.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-seek-advice-philip-20967531

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I sometimes wonder if Andrew would dress up like Peter Rabbit and wave to tourists from the Palace balcony....IF the price was right.

It's why i caught my breath at the idea of him publishing his memoirs, completing with chapter on L'Affaire Epstein. Because if some fancy New York or London publishing house was to dangle the carrot of a big fat pay advance to Andrew, i honestly can not see him refusing it.

 

[texankitcat]

Do you think that Prince Andrew will eventually write a book about his version of the Epstein ordeal?

Yes, a riveting best seller listed as “adult fiction”

 

[Claire]

Well, here's something new..

I think this is a really wise course of action. For one thing, I love that Charles is going to see his father, just to see him. For another, I think it's a good idea to take some time to digest everything before reading the riot act to Andrew - and saying things that he might regret. We have to remember that, after all, they are brothers, so while Charles is undoubtedly livid and will want to ensure that Andrew is out of everyone's hair so to speak in terms of official functions, he's got to keep the "professional" from the personal. Andrew is being retired from the BRF as to appearances, etc., but he's still their son, brother, etc.. Lastly, I think Philip has a lot of wisdom to offer and I'm glad Charles is availing himself of that.



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-seek-advice-philip-20967531

I believe the Duke of Edinburgh was unwell during the week - as he was unable to return for a Dinner for the Wedding Anniversary. I knew there wasn't an official event - but I expected the family gathering at least. But then again there minds were on other stuff. Anne and Edward have also visited this week. There is also a possibility that the Duke of Edinburgh's patronage and charities that were given to Andrew might be split among them. Seems unfair that any of the charities and patronage should be sideline over this - especially the Duke of Edinburgh's.

The Way Ahead meeting this December is going to be a loaded and heavy meeting. Unsure if I want to be a fly on the wall there.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Andrew is off the royal guest list for the reception of NATO leaders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...m-palace-nato-prince-andrew-a9219296.html?amp

Harry, Meghan, Sophie and William are not attending for various reasons. The irony of Trump coming considering his ties to Epstien. The BRF better brace itself for another car crash interview because Trump will most likely be asked about Andrew.

 

[Denville]

Ok, he procured underage girl to be raped. There's no "underage prostitution", it's rape, because legally underage people cannot consent to having sex or prostitution. This was well known, as he was convicted for it. Andrew and everyone else knew it.

of course he knew it. He said that he knew he could not go on being friends with Esptetin after it..so he wnet to the US to tell him so (and stayed 4 days). but he knew that Epstein had been convicted of procuring an under age girl for prostitution. if he did that once, and there were lots of young girls hanging around the house of course Andrew knew that Epstein was guilty of a particularly horrible crime involving an under aged girl.. (it wasn't just a man having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend, it involved prostitution). He knew perfectly well tht Epstein was not someone it was suitable for him to be seen with.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

I’m literally quoting what he was charged for. Don’t have a go at me, for the technical term he was charged for.

And I'm saying what it means in non legal words. The legal term vs what he actually did. He procured a minor for rape. Andrew and everyone else knew this. Theres no excusing him.

As for what Andrew will do... He's a 60 year old man. He will continue to do what he's done this long, live his life in insane luxury and benefit from the "connections" he was so happy about. I don't know why any royal aides should be figuring out anything for him.

 

[Denville]

And I'm saying what it means in non legal words. The legal term vs what he actually did. He procured a minor for rape. Andrew and everyone else knew this. Theres no excusing him.

As for what Andrew will do... He's a 60 year old man. He will continue to do what he's done this long, live his life in insane luxury and benefit from the "connections" he was so happy about. I don't know why any royal aides should be figuring out anything for him.

Of course. He msut have known that Epstien was involved with prostitution and with under age prostitution at that.
as for what he will do, I Agree he wil probably lead a comfortable life. Im not sure if he will have the saem "connexions" if he is a disgraced out of work Prince..but he will have friends because there are always people who are willing to hang along with a person who has wealth.. but IMO he is finished as a Royal or a charity patron... and rightly so. If he "acts up" because he has nothing solid to do, that's his problem. He will only look worse and more of a fool than he has done already...

 

[princess carmen]

He knew what Epstein was involved in. But , chose to ignore it for the money and the connections.His ego and stupidity caused his downfall no one else. i don't think anyone needs to find something for him to do. His mother will support him and his lifestyle so his lifestyle won't suffer. I'm sure he will still have some wealthy friends who he can see .

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Andrew is off the royal guest list for the reception of NATO leaders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...m-palace-nato-prince-andrew-a9219296.html?amp

Harry, Meghan, Sophie and William are not attending for various reasons. The irony of Trump coming considering his ties to Epstien. The BRF better brace itself for another car crash interview because Trump will most likely be asked about Andrew.

Trump won't criticize Andrew publicly over Epstein. Never in a million years.

If asked about it he will insist that "Prince Andrew is the victim of an unfair witch hunt" .

Then of course he will draw a parallel between Andrew's situation and his own with the example of the impeachment process.

 

[texankitcat]

Well, here's something new..

I think this is a really wise course of action. For one thing, I love that Charles is going to see his father, just to see him. For another, I think it's a good idea to take some time to digest everything before reading the riot act to Andrew - and saying things that he might regret. We have to remember that, after all, they are brothers, so while Charles is undoubtedly livid and will want to ensure that Andrew is out of everyone's hair so to speak in terms of official functions, he's got to keep the "professional" from the personal. Andrew is being retired from the BRF as to appearances, etc., but he's still their son, brother, etc.. Lastly, I think Philip has a lot of wisdom to offer and I'm glad Charles is availing himself of that.



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-seek-advice-philip-20967531

All interesting news if this is all true, however, I am rather skeptical on the report of Charles going immediately to Sandringham to be advised by his father. Phillip being 98 and not having been seen in public for some time has me thinking his health may have something to do with the immediate and extended visit. I am sure the Duke has a lot of wisdom on dealing with this crises, however I would think the Queen would be Charles first priority if it was advise/strategy that was needed. It is ultimately up to her Majesty, Charles and William as to Andrews fate. JMO.

 

[Madame Verseau]

From DM - Charles to take over the family business
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...repares-leadership-Royals-Queen-turns-95.html

I have found no other papers running this.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Nevertheless, after more than two weeks, the internet has been unable to debunk the pizza party alibi, hasn't it ? And Mrs Giuffre has not been able to provide any factual evidence that she ever had sex with Prince Andrew. I wonder why everybody assumes that she is more credible than the Duke of York.


I sense that Andrew is the victim of a preconceived idea that he is a straight male and a womanizer (not true either BTW) and, therefore, he must be lying about not having sex with the Epstein girls. If I recall it, he did admit though to having massages, which is not equal to having sex.



The burden is not on Andrew to prove that he is innocent, but rather on those who accuse him of wrongdoings to prove that he is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

This is the cultural climate we live in now. Andrew is an idiot but so many in here are ready to call him a sex offender or an accessory to sex trafficking. There is no more innocent until proven guilty it is "I don't like you so you're guilty of something". This is especially popular against men

 

[Lumutqueen]

Charles has gone to Sandringham a; for the weekend which they often do this time of year and b; for a farming meeting.

The press will draw the slightest of parallels between Mars and the Moon if it got them a story.

 

[Kataryn]

In fact, sometimes it makes me wonder how much of the York success with their children is down to their good choices- or Her Majesty's
when it came to the girls and their upbringing.

From the way Sarah grew up as member of the landed gentry whose only claim later to being "high society" was her excellent manners and the knowledge of the do's and don'ts (even though she did as she wanted later on), it is clear that she would select only the best nanies for their wto little princesses. The kids had to be perfect little girls in order to stay close to their grandmother (and their parents) and be perfect little princesses to the public. No one knew better then Sarah how much hinged on that. So the nannies were surely told to deliver in shaping the girls accordingly.

Just like Lady Louise and Viscount Severn are shaped nowadays.



It's typical of raising minor Royals - they only have some "value" in the monarchy as long as they are invited to those events where they could be invited or not. It's clear they wouldn't be invited to state dinners at all but attending garden parties at BP eg - depends on their behaviour.



That's why I am happy to see them chosing their own husbands and not really in the upper echelons of society - 100 years ago, Beatrice would have been chosen by a foreign prince of the young Duke of Westminster...

 

[princess carmen]

I worked for an attorney, he said that the innocent until proven guilty is false it is guilty until proven innocent. I think we are all allowed our opinions no one knows for sure but ,
simply my opinion he slept with that under age young girl. Time might tell or it may remain a mystery.

 

[Gawin]

of course he knew it. He said that he knew he could not go on being friends with Esptetin after it..so he wnet to the US to tell him so (and stayed 4 days). but he knew that Epstein had been convicted of procuring an under age girl for prostitution. if he did that once, and there were lots of young girls hanging around the house of course Andrew knew that Epstein was guilty of a particularly horrible crime involving an under aged girl.. (it wasn't just a man having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend, it involved prostitution). He knew perfectly well tht Epstein was not someone it was suitable for him to be seen with.

I'm skeptical about the stated purpose of Andrew's 2010 visit: he went to end the friendship in person because it was the honourable thing to do.


#1
In the interview Andrew said he lost touch with Epstein from 2006-2010. So why after four years was it necessary to let Epstein know the friendship had ended? Didn't he think Epstein had figured that out already?

#2
He also said he lost touch because he knew he couldn't be seen with Epstein who was under investigation. So why was it OK to be seen with Epstein after he had been convicted and released?

#3
According to an article in the Times Andrew secured a $24,500 (£15,000) loan from Epstein in 2010 to help pay Sarah's debts.

I can't help but think the 2010 visit was related to the loan and not to end the friendship.

 

[Gawin]

All interesting news if this is all true, however, I am rather skeptical on the report of Charles going immediately to Sandringham to be advised by his father. Phillip being 98 and not having been seen in public for some time has me thinking his health may have something to do with the immediate and extended visit. I am sure the Duke has a lot of wisdom on dealing with this crises, however I would think the Queen would be Charles first priority if it was advise/strategy that was needed. It is ultimately up to her Majesty, Charles and William as to Andrews fate. JMO.

After following Andrew's antics Prince Philip is probably recovering from an apoplectic fit.

 

[rmay286]

All interesting news if this is all true, however, I am rather skeptical on the report of Charles going immediately to Sandringham to be advised by his father. Phillip being 98 and not having been seen in public for some time has me thinking his health may have something to do with the immediate and extended visit. I am sure the Duke has a lot of wisdom on dealing with this crises, however I would think the Queen would be Charles first priority if it was advise/strategy that was needed. It is ultimately up to her Majesty, Charles and William as to Andrews fate. JMO.

I don't usually believe Daily Mail headlines. I agree it may just have to with Philip's health, Charles' farming, whatever....rather than Andrew's scandal.

That being said, Andrew could probably learn something about good PR from his father. While the Duke of Edinburgh has been known for his 'gaffes,' he's never really been engulfed in 'scandal'. Even as recently as this year, he sent a letter of apology to that lady after the car accident which traditionally is not something royals have done, but he recognized that it would smooth over the situation. So I think Philip has always had better judgment when it comes to public relations than Andrew.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I find the whole case creepy, horrifying and I can't look away. Like a car crash. There are many questions - Epstein went from being a private school teacher to owning islands and having all sorts of famous friends. How do you do that? I suspect he was a pimp all along. I don't believe any of his friends (not just Andrew) didn't know what was what. Why did they all go along with it? Even Bill Gates was hanging out with the guy.
As for Andrew I don't think they had a choice but to make him step down. I don't know if they'll actually supeana him but he can't represent the royals anymore. What was he doing hanging out with these people? He's guilty of bad judgement even if he is innocent of everything else. And I'm not sure he's innocent of everything else.

I don't usually believe Daily Mail headlines. I agree it may just have to with Philip's health, Charles' farming, whatever....rather than Andrew's scandal.

That being said, Andrew could probably learn something about good PR from his father. While the Duke of Edinburgh has been known for his 'gaffes,' he's never really been engulfed in 'scandal'. Even as recently as this year, he sent a letter of apology to that lady after the car accident which traditionally is not something royals have done, but he recognized that it would smooth over the situation. So I think Philip has always had better judgment when it comes to public relations than Andrew.

Yes but Phillip's "gaffes" were just him saying a series of stupid things. He was never accused of raping an underage sex slave which is what Andrew is being accused of. Whether or not it's true Andrew should have never put himself in this position.

 

[Pranter]

I find the whole case creepy, horrifying and I can't look away. Like a car crash. There are many questions - Epstein went from being a private school teacher to owning islands and having all sorts of famous friends. How do you do that? I suspect he was a pimp all along. I don't believe any of his friends (not just Andrew) didn't know what was what. Why did they all go along with it? Even Bill Gates was hanging out with the guy.
As for Andrew I don't think they had a choice but to make him step down. I don't know if they'll actually supeana him but he can't represent the royals anymore. What was he doing hanging out with these people? He's guilty of bad judgement even if he is innocent of everything else. And I'm not sure he's innocent of everything else.

As far as where he got his money: He went to work for one of the big financial houses (hedge funds/investments etc) ...he was evidently VERY successful there and after a couple years left and more or less went into private financial money handling (he handle Lex Wexner's money..the guy who owns Victoria Secret among other companies) ....he was also involved in handling money for other extremely wealthy ppl. There's some big family (Kings..not related to the Texas King Ranch ppl) out in N.M. that he was involved with....there's a big facility out there (Zorro Ranch) he bought.

If you google you can find out more detail on all this.



LaRae