The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022


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The discussion about various slang words and expressions has been deleted. Let’s stick to the topic, please.
 
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Gawin said:
First, not all family members gathered on the balcony are working royals or even HRHs.

Second, the number of working royals will be streamlined by attrition.
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True, but it's all about perception.

Many people simply don't know or care who is or is not a working royal, they see the extended family and think it's excessive.
 
I believe its up to the monarch to decide who steps out on that balcony on any given occasion. Its also up to the monarch who works for the "Firm and who doesn't.

As far as family, that's a different ball of wax than the working side of the monarchy. Andrew is and will always be a member of the British Royal Family and will be included in family events. He just will not be working for the "Firm" any longer and has "retired" from public duties. Andrew will no longer be funded for his activities, expenses and work for the "Firm" from the Sovereign Grant.

As I see it in many places that the general public still does believe that everything about the BRF is funded by the taxpayer dime, there will always be moaning and groaning about the size of the royal family. No matter if there is 1,000 working members of the "Firm" or 25, the Firm is subsidized by the Sovereign Grant which is a fixed amount calculated and adjusted by the amount of interest from the Crown Estate. So having a smaller, working family really doesn't save money. The funding isn't the problem. Andrew has left the "Firm" pretty much in disgrace and I've believed from the first announcement that its to be a permanent thing.

There's been rumblings of "banishment" from the family. I don't believe this is actually correct. He's been put out to pasture away from the public eye and from doing things as a working member of the BRF. I don't believe its going to end up with Andrew being ostracized and shunned by family members. I expect Andrew to be at Sandringham for the holidays if he chooses to be and warmly welcomed. He'll continue to live at Royal Lodge, ride with the Queen when they get together and most definitely will walk Beatrice down the aisle on her wedding day.

We'll hear about Andrew from time to time as he's spotted here and there golfing or riding or whatever. Kind of like Lady Kitty Spencer always seems to pop up at fashion events. We just won't see him in the court circular any longer. The York branch of the BRF is officially the first family to not be working for the "Firm". What follows as far as "slimming down the monarchy" is yet to be determined. ?
 
There may be allegations and accusation coming out of the woodwork as more and more of Epstein's girls find the courage to speak out publicly about what they've gone through. Unless video evidence is found to explicitly prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Andrew did willingly participate at the sexual level within Epstein's circle, they will remain allegations and accusations.

Video evidence seems highly probable to me and that there is video of Andrew with girls out there is something that Andrew should be very worried about. Its been known that Epstein liked having all areas of his homes installed with CCTV and could watch was was going on anywhere at anytime and kept the tapes possibly for use as blackmail to keep his "clients" silent. Most probably never even thought they were under surveillance at all. Andrew may be one of them.

I don't think things could get worse for Andrew other than perhaps being charged with a crime and prosecuted for it.
 
This might be badly received, but … here goes.

Prince Andrew has a very plummy accent. I hate words like plummy and posh, but, if I had to pick one for Andrew, it would be plummy.

I have been noticing in the past few years in the UK, people who have certain accents that are perceived as high class are discriminated against automatically. When David Cameron was doing his cull of prospective MP's back when, he avoided anyone who had what he thought of as a posh accent. Or name. And he was in the Bullingdon Club.

My point regarding Prince Andrew is that there seems to be a rising tide of adversity towards cut-glass accents in the UK and that Andrew is stuck on that tide. His plummy "as it were" type of responses really put him in the mud. Saying he was "too honourable" didn't help, but it was funny.

I'm not making excuses, just wondering if there is an election aspect to this.
 
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Unfortunately for me, I don't hear accents. I'm dependent on either transcripts or closed captioning so for me, its the wording that matters.

I did cringe when Andrew stated he had to physically visit and stay with Epstein to call off the friendship because he was "too honorable". To me, that would rank right up there with a guy taking his wife out to celebrate their wedding anniversary and over cocktails, serve the wife with divorce papers. :D
 
Leopoldine said:
This might be badly received, but … here goes.

Prince Andrew has a very plummy accent. I hate words like plummy and posh, but, if I had to pick one for Andrew, it would be plummy.

I have been noticing in the past few years in the UK, people who have certain accents that are perceived as high class are discriminated against automatically. When David Cameron was doing his cull of prospective MP's back when, he avoided anyone who had what he thought of as a posh accent. Or name. And he was in the Bullingdon Club.

My point regarding Prince Andrew is that there seems to be a rising tide of adversity towards cut-glass accents in the UK and that Andrew is stuck on that tide. His plummy "as it were" type of responses really put him in the mud. Saying he was "too honourable" didn't help, but it was funny.

I'm not making excuses, just wondering if there is an election aspect to this.
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I don’t understand how Andrew’s accent has anything to do with his being accused of having sex with underaged girl(s), being photographed with Epstein who was a convicted sex offender, staying at his house for 4 days and making a complete arse of himself with the most ridiculous excuses in a nationally broadcasted BBC interview. The additional accusations of using his position to broker deals for his friends while carrying out official duties is another mess to be sorted out.

So, is it really all about the accent?
 
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It has nothing to do with his accent... he has acted like a dumb arrogant fool......
 
Yeah I am a bit lost what his accent has to do with his vile, idiotic actions.
 
Deleted due to duplicate post. Sorry!
 
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His accent indicates he is one of our 'betters'. His actions prove that he is not.
 
Everyday in the tabloïds more révélations very bad for Andrew. "Can of worms" springs to mind, will it ever end ? I cannot help feeling sorry for his daughters (I didn't appreciate them but they have done Nothing to deserve this and obviously they love their father).
 
Another casualty of Andrew's scandals? Beatrice apparently called off her engagement party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...incess-Beatrice-cancels-engagement-party.html

They may be looking for another date and location. I never understood announcing like they did given what is going on with Andrew. And I don't understand needing the queen's blessing for the party. As ninth in line to the throne Beatrice doesn't need tube queen consent to marry.
 
texankitcat said:
I don’t understand how Andrew’s accent has anything to do with his being accused of having sex with underaged girl(s), being photographed with Epstein who was a convicted sex offender, staying at his house for 4 days and making a complete arse of himself with the most ridiculous excuses in a nationally broadcasted BBC interview. The additional accusations of using his position to broker deals for his friends while carrying out official duties is another mess to be sorted out.

So, is it really all about the accent?
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No, not quite.

His BRF banishment was a direct result of that interview, where Andrew came off as a very pompous person. Part of his repellent persona was his accent, because his perceived lying was done in a plummy manner. You don't see that too much on TV, where a pampered Royal Duke with a reputation for extravagance dismisses his 2010 socializing with Jeff because he was"too honourable".

If I was British and paid taxes there, I would be researching how much of my money paid for Prince Andrew. One doesn't live in a 30 room house in Windsor Park and have heavy security without some of that money coming from ….say, people who don't take private jets.
 
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People predicted problems

Madame Verseau said:
Another casualty of Andrew's scandals? Beatrice apparently called off her engagement party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...incess-Beatrice-cancels-engagement-party.html

They may be looking for another date and location. I never understood announcing like they did given what is going on with Andrew. And I don't understand needing the queen's blessing for the party. As ninth in line to the throne Beatrice doesn't need tube queen consent to marry.
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First he throws Bea under the bus about having pizza on the fateful date and now they have to change place and date of engagement party. So sad for Bea.
:ohmy:
 
I don't believe Bea did have to get the Queen's permission for an engagement party. Look at the source! The Fail makes things up as it goes along.

I do however believe the locale was somehow leaked (it's one of Bea, Eugenie and Harry's old stomping grounds) and, as they didn't want a whole lot of photographers and tabloid reporters sniffing around, Beatrice and Edo have decided to change venues.
 
Leopoldine said:
No, not quite.

His BRF banishment was a direct result of that interview, where Andrew came off as a very pompous person. Part of his repellent persona was his accent, because his perceived lying was done in a plummy manner. You don't see that too much on TV, where a pampered Royal Duke with a reputation for extravagance dismisses his 2010 socializing with Jeff because he was"too honourable".

If I was British and paid taxes there, I would be researching how much of my money paid for Prince Andrew. One doesn't live in a 30 room house in Windsor Park and have heavy security without some of that money coming from ….say, people who don't take private jets.
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In a nutshell, the only thing that is paid for directly by taxpayers is his protection detail. When doing engagements and duties as a working royal, that is subsidized by the Sovereign Grant. He has a 75 year lease on Royal Lodge through the Crown Estates so won't be moving soon. I'm sure he has his own wealth and perhaps a yearly allowance from mama because he worked for the family "Firm". All that's left now is Royal Lodge and I would imagine that his security detail has been curtailed but with the mood against Andrew, they may deem him a credible threat and needs protection.

No matter what's gone down with Andrew, one thing keeps coming up no matter if its his friends, his interviews or his work. It all boils down to having an "attitude" which shines through time and time again. Entitled, arrogant, snobbish, egocentric, you get the picture. He's brought all of this on himself through his own thoughts, words and deeds. What he portrays is not one that the "Firm" finds attractive and is actually detrimental to the work the "Firm" does.

Andrew will be fine and go on with life. The "Firm" will continue strongly as a team into the future and snow will fall at Balmoral as it does every year. The wheat has been separated from the chaff and what needed to be done, was done.

Its just hilarious to me to see that no matter what happens now with the BRF, the tabloids point fingers at Andrew and he's the scapegoat flavor of the month. They're not going to let us forget that Andrew was disgraced and banished from his royal roles. Someone, somewhere in Scotland gets a flat tire and of course, its Andrew's fault. The Thames freezes over and its Andrew's fault. Bea and Edo change their plans, its all Andrew's fault. Up next.... cause of global warming discovered. Its Andrew's fault!! Film at 11 :D
 
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Madame Verseau said:
Another casualty of Andrew's scandals? Beatrice apparently called off her engagement party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...incess-Beatrice-cancels-engagement-party.html

They may be looking for another date and location. I never understood announcing like they did given what is going on with Andrew. And I don't understand needing the queen's blessing for the party. As ninth in line to the throne Beatrice doesn't need tube queen consent to marry.
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Was the announced engagement date even real to begin with? Those rumors started with the Sun and DM unreliable sources. Either that or they changed the plans when the press leaked info, I would want to change plans if things were leaked. I dont think it has to do exactly with her father.
 
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Oh!
No reply, only:
I feel so bad for Beatrice, her name and face continue to pop up in situations she had no control over as she had nothing to do with this disaster.
 
ACO said:
EXCLUSIVE: Shocking photo shows paedo Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and 'pimp' Ghislaine Maxwell at Beatrice's 18th birthday bash

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10505...twitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1575790063


Oy.
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Nice of the Sun to try to dirty up other members of the BRF because they attended Bea's 18th birthday party like Epstein, Maxwell and Einstein. But I think this tops your reveal

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...?ico=amp-comments-addcomment#comments-7768995
 
Whether the DM made it up or not: Attending the christmas service is a family tradition, so I don't see why Andrew should not attend as he does each year. This is not a 'royal performance' even though it might be treated as such. Other family members that don't do royal duties (such as Anne's children, the York princesses and the Wessex children) attend as well, so no reason to exclude him from attending church. It would be wise not to join the queen in the car to church but walking with the other family members should be fine.

However, before the christmas service there is also the family lunch (most likely in 1 1/2 weeks), so I would expect that to be the first time he is to be 'seen' since he stepped down from royal duties (as the family lunch also is not a royal duty but a yearly activity for all family members).
 
His presence with the royal family at Christmas will send out a very clear message — “we’re 100% behind Andrew.”
 
Dman said:
His presence with the royal family at Christmas will send out a very clear message — “we’re 100% behind Andrew.”
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I'm not sure I agree with this. It may just mean that they still consider him a member of the family, and that they are not prepared to ostracize him. And it's church on Christmas Day, not an official event, so I do think it has slightly different connotations.

Personally, I would be thrilled if Andrew had made other plans, but I will not be at all surprised if he shows up for the church walk. We'll see how it all plays out.
 
I highly doubt she cancelled her engagement party. That is a private event and Andrew being under the spotlight has nothing to do with that other than he's her father.



LaRae
 
Dman said:
His presence with the royal family at Christmas will send out a very clear message — “we’re 100% behind Andrew.”
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Reportedly Philip recently told Andrew that the Epstein scandal meant his royal career would be over - which doesn't sound like he's 100% behind Andrew to me! I agree that HM seems to be supporting him as a mother, but of course we don't know what her opinion on Andrew's personal involvement is unless she says so (which I doubt she will). Whilst I'm absolutely not condoning Andrew's actions and this whole vile situation, it will be hard for HM to cut ties with her son if she ever plans on doing so.
 
We have to keep remembering that the BRF family Christmas is exactly that, a family occasion. That crowds turn out to watch them do the ritual stroll down to Church for the Christmas day service is totally irrelevant. They are on holiday and not an official engagement and that they stop and spend time with the royal supporters is because they want to do it and not because they have to do it.

Regardless, nobody has the right to tell anyone who or who not to love in their family. Loving someone does not mean you endorse or accept unacceptable behaviour, familial love transcends that. Me? There are times I really don't like my brother, but that does not mean I do not love him.

On an even more important level, HM is head of the Church of England and it isn't just a title to her. She is a devout, practising Christian so is it any surprise that she lives her faith?

The Greatest Commandment

Matthew 22:34-40 King James Version (KJV)

34. But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38. This is the first and great commandment. 39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Saying that HM should shun both her faith and her son, banishing him from her family not only runs contrary to her faith but is harsh and hurtful to the entire family.
 
Dman said:
His presence with the royal family at Christmas will send out a very clear message — “we’re 100% behind Andrew.”
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Hmm. I'm of two minds about this. The increasingly grumpy old cynic in me agrees with this sentiment, but, on reflection, it is arguable that his presence with his family attending the Christmas Day church service is perfectly reasonable and unavaoidable. In my opinion Andrew has behaved appallingly over this whole set of circumstances and I am prepared to criticise him loudly and often for his arrogance and poor decisions, but he has not been convicted of a crime, or even charged with one.

His mother is Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and the Christmas Day service is all about celebrating the birth of Christ, who, according to the Church's teachings, was God's son, sent by Him to save people from their sins. The Church teaches charity and forgiveness and not giving up on people. In this context it would be rather poor form and quite hypocritical of Her Majesty to forbid Andrew from attending church with the family that day, even if she wanted to. He would be wise to appear humble though and not bear a smug smile or give any inkling that he thinks his presence there means he is in the clear.
 
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