The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Osipi]

This is just my opinion and nothing else but in keeping "on the good side" of Maxwell, it also could be a ploy by Trump to keep mum about Trump, himself. He knows far, far more than he's alluding to. Otherwise, why would Epstein and Trump's name be all buddies and pals in SDNY lawsuit?

 

[Lady Daly]

Actual news clip of Trump responding to reporter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1285775842048606209

It's not unusual for Trump to respond to a controversial situation or person that has been close to him in the past, that he doesn't know that much, or he hasn't been following the situation, while in the same breathe say they are a good person or wish them well as he did Ghislaine Maxwell, "I wish her well". It's Trump's formula. He used the same formula with his personal attorney and fixer Michael Cohen just before Cohen was indicted in the Stormy Daniels fiasco and just before he turned against Trump. Trump could be sending a message to Ms Maxwell to keep her mouth shut. Who knows. Anyone else, especially a POTUS, would not be wishing Ghislaine Maxwell well. Also, the fact that AG Barr has been very loyal to Trump, anything is possible. It does, however, seem Trump is keeping his distance when it comes to Prince Andrew.

 

[Harald]

Ghislaine Maxwell very well may be lobbying Trump for a pardon, although I'm not sure how that would work considering she hasn't been convicted, yet. If Trump loses the election in Nov he will hopefully be out of office before her trial next July.

For the issuance of a presidential pardon a conviction is not required since the power of pardon can also be used for a presumptive case. An example of that is President Gerald Ford pardoning former President Nixon over any possible crimes regarding the Watergate scandal.

 

[Nice Nofret]

If Trump pardons Maxwell, then we know she has a hold over him; if he doesn't pardon her; she probably will spill the beans big way. She is probably trying for a deal with him. But then, we all know he is a Misogynist and likes to 'grab women on their *****' and it doesn't seem to deter his followers, even if they consider themselves to be religios or women themselves

 

[Lady Daly]

For the issuance of a presidential pardon a conviction is not required since the power of pardon can also be used for a presumptive case. An example of that is President Gerald Ford pardoning former President Nixon over any possible crimes regarding the Watergate scandal.

Thank you Harald. The Nixon pardon is an excellent example. So Ghislaine may have a way out of this afterall. Prince Andrew seems like a fly on the wall in comparison.

 

[Harald]

Thank you Harald.

You're welcome, Lady Daly.

 

[Lady Daly]

Elie Honig a former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York (SDNY) on twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1286095668512268288

"It was insane, sure, when the President sent his best wishes to accused child sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell. But it also rings a bell; he’s done this before, as a precursor to intervening in his friends’ cases."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1285694611671977986

"I can think of four times when Trump has publicly extended his best wishes to people charged with federal crimes by DOJ: Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort — and now Ghislaine Maxwell."

This case, unfortunately, may be closed well before next summer. Prince Andrew might then be able to rest a bit easier but certainly not Epstein's victims.

 

[Osipi]

All I'll say that if anything does happen along the lines of Trump inveigling into the Maxwell case, it'll be his own death knell in the election. It's blatantly obvious to me that *if* Trump does act on behalf of Maxwell, there's for sure some juicy stuff that Maxwell can pin on the guy.

As a sitting president, he'd be wise to let justice be served the way the US federal courts deem it to be served and not interfere. If he should lose the election in November, he's going to be just another of the "Mr. Bigs" in a long line of "Mr. Bigs" that Maxwell has "information" on.

Wonder if he's called Andrew to find out how he can stop sweating buckets yet?

 

[Jacknch]

A reminder that the topic of the thread is about Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein controversy/case and that we should limit our discussions as far as they are relevant to Prince Andrew. Thank you.

 

[Osipi]

I guess Maxwell isn't very happy these days. it seems that a judge has ruled to unseal a large range of documents, including depositions from Maxwell, alleged victim Virginia Giuffre, along with two John Does, as the case made its way through the Southern District of New York three years ago. These, most likely, is where it'll help the prosecution proving perjury charges now pending against Maxwell? That's my guess.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...will-be-made-public-judge-rules/#e780ada34391

 

[Madame Verseau]

I guess Maxwell isn't very happy these days. it seems that a judge has ruled to unseal a large range of documents, including depositions from Maxwell, alleged victim Virginia Giuffre, along with two John Does, as the case made its way through the Southern District of New York three years ago. These, most likely, is where it'll help the prosecution proving perjury charges now pending against Maxwell? That's my guess.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...will-be-made-public-judge-rules/#e780ada34391

Gigi's lawyers have a week to respond. But a lot of powerful men are not sleeping well.

 

[Leopoldine]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...obbied-us-government-favourable-epstein-plea/


This is horrific.

 

[Lilyflo]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...obbied-us-government-favourable-epstein-plea/


This is horrific.

For anyone without a Telegraph account, here's the story without a paywall.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-31...f-paedophile-jeffrey-epstein-documents-reveal

and here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ince-andrew-us-court-document-jeffrey-epstein

Befriending powerful people and gathering incriminating evidence against them in order to cash-in favours has been a useful ploy throughout history. You'd think the BRF would be immune to pernicious flattery, attention and freebies but it appears one of them succumbed.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Andrew's mess is the REAL royal scandal that the press seems like it doesn't want to focus too much on, unless there are release of court documents. For blackmail to work girls under legal age of consent as far as UK and US laws would have been used. If there is tape of Andrew with a 14 or 15 year old girl or younger the House of Windsor wouldn't survive the reputation hit no matter how much legal maneuvering is done.

 

[Lilyflo]

Andrew's mess is the REAL royal scandal that the press seems like it doesn't want to focus too much on, unless there are release of court documents. For blackmail to work girls under legal age of consent as far as UK and US laws would have been used. If there is tape of Andrew with a 14 or 15 year old girl or younger the House of Windsor wouldn't survive the reputation hit no matter how much legal maneuvering is done.

I think anyone under 18 would be under the legal age for consent to prostitution. If the allegations are correct & he engaged in orgies with teenagers/young women via Epstein's 'hospitality', they'd need to be 18+ in UK law but it might be different in the US.

 

[Lee-Z]

Andrew's mess is the REAL royal scandal that the press seems like it doesn't want to focus too much on, unless there are release of court documents. For blackmail to work girls under legal age of consent as far as UK and US laws would have been used. If there is tape of Andrew with a 14 or 15 year old girl or younger the House of Windsor wouldn't survive the reputation hit no matter how much legal maneuvering is done.

I get that you like being the harbinger of doom, but i honestly don't think whatever happens in this case that "the house of Windsor wouldn't survive"...
P.Andrew's reputation would be down the drain, and to be honest, it probably already is, but to think the entire house of Windsor would disappear, or in other words, it would be the end of the monarchy in GB?
I honestly don't think that will happen..

 

[JR76]

Andrew's mess is the REAL royal scandal that the press seems like it doesn't want to focus too much on, unless there are release of court documents.

That's not true. The British press has continuously written about Prince Andrew's association with Jeffrey Epstein since 2011 when that association was one of the reasons that forced him to step down as the UK trade envoy. The case has followed him ever since and his already shaky reputation took a hit that it never really recovered from.

 

[sndral]

Well the fact that QEII chose to protect her louche second son for so many years may tarnish her legacy.
It also furnishes fuel for those who question just how expensive the monarchy is, if disgraced hangers on like Andrew and Sarah continue to live the lifestyle they live. I know the counter argument is that it’s not taxpayer money, but it suggests that perhaps the immensely wealthy royal family should pay more of their own bills, and perhaps the monarch should pay death duties like everyone else at least on their personal assets. Plus, Andrew still has his taxpayer funded RPOs, when other wealthy people have to pay for their own security. The fact that a disgraced ancillary non working sovereign’s son who may have used his ‘status’ to enrich himself along the way is getting such special treatment may generate questions about whether the family as a whole should be getting that special treatment and about the whole financial structure of the institution.

 

[Madame Verseau]

@sndral - that was what I was meaning. Stepping down from royal duties is not enough. Andrew needs to talk to the Feds and dragging down the royal house. And he should lose his HRH.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

...and after he talks to the Feds and is stripped of HRH, that will still not be enough for some.

There will be demands that he leave Royal Lodge...the home that is his by his late grandmother's will.

Then the demand that HMQ give a public address disinheriting him.

If he has appeared in any film or photographs of the weddings of his daughters, he should be airbrushed out immediately.

Then...he should be stripped of all accolades earned during his military service

And finally...he should be banned from attending the funerals of his parents.

Only then will the House of Windsor survive.

 

[Osipi]

@sndral - that was what I was meaning. Stepping down from royal duties is not enough. Andrew needs to talk to the Feds and dragging down the royal house. And he should lose his HRH.

You talk as if Andrew has committed a crime and should be hung, drawn and quartered. The actuality of it is that Andrew is just a very small sunfish in the schemes of Epstein and Maxwell. Andrew may have questionable morals, be highly arrogant and egotistic and be a buffoon to boot but as far as I've seen, the only person he's been dragging down is himself. And down he went.

With the release recently of court documents pertaining to Ghislaine Maxwell, I think the Feds have more than enough to bring her case to court and put her away for a long, long time and once again, the Feds are *not* looking into who slept with whom but are pursuing totally different charges such as sex trafficking.

The House of Windsor has not been affected by this other than seeing Andrew ostracized from public duties and put out to pasture. That, to me, is enough.

 

[Lori138]

...and after he talks to the Feds and is stripped of HRH, that will still not be enough for some.

There will be demands that he leave Royal Lodge...the home that is his by his late grandmother's will.

Then the demand that HMQ give a public address disinheriting him.

If he has appeared in any film or photographs of the weddings of his daughters, he should be airbrushed out immediately.

Then...he should be stripped of all accolades earned during his military service

And then...he should be banned from attending the funerals of his parents.
Only then will the House of Windsor survive.

Exactly Moonmaiden. Goodness me some people are out for blood. Maybe he should be hung, drawn and quartered as well with his head displayed on London Bridge.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

You talk as if Andrew has committed a crime and should be hung, drawn and quartered. The actuality of it is that Andrew is just a very small sunfish in the schemes of Epstein and Maxwell. Andrew may have questionable morals, be highly arrogant and egotistic and be a buffoon to boot but as far as I've seen, the only person he's been dragging down is himself. And down he went.

With the release recently of court documents pertaining to Ghislaine Maxwell, I think the Feds have more than enough to bring her case to court and put her away for a long, long time and once again, the Feds are *not* looking into who slept with whom but are pursuing totally different charges such as sex trafficking.

The House of Windsor has not been affected by this other than seeing Andrew ostracized from public duties and put out to pasture. That, to me, is enough.

A small sunfish who still may have committed rape and sexual encounters with underage girls. That IS a big crime and should have a lengthy prison sentence IMO. The others involved in Epstein's trafficking ring should also be given the same treatment.

I don't think people realise the severity of the situation if it turns out that Andrew is guilty.

 

[Lilyflo]

Andrew is still the Queen's son and until he's found guilty of any illegal activity (which may never happen), she's unlikely to be significantly harmed by any photos of them together in private activities eg attending church or riding.

The monarchy will survive because prior to any conviction, it has already stripped him of all official duties. He has no public role, he does not represent the crown in any capacity and if there's any doubt about how serious the BRF takes these accusations, he wasn't even included in the official photos of his eldest daughter's wedding.

I have no doubt that Charles and William will protect the monarchy and they'll do whatever it takes to ensure that its future isn't scuppered by Andrew's indiscretions (at best) or involvement in the sexual abuse of trafficked teenagers (at worst).

 

[sndral]

...
There will be demands that he leave Royal Lodge...the home that is his by his late grandmother's will.
...:

Since the Queen mother’s will was never published we don’t know what she left to whom. Royal Lodge, however, is a crown estate property and thus was never the QM’s to will to anyone. She died in 2002, he wanted a place to live after the Sunninghill debacle, so he negotiated a lease for the then vacant property with the crown estate in 2003.
My point about Andrew is that his behavior reflects poorly on the family and institution that enabled it, thus it wouldn’t be surprising for that family/institution to face scrutiny. I see the issue of what the consequences to Andrew personally should be as a different issue, although how the RF deals w/ consequences to Andrew may influence the bigger issues, IMO.

 

[Osipi]

A small sunfish who still may have committed rape and sexual encounters with underage girls. That IS a big crime and should have a lengthy prison sentence IMO. The others involved in Epstein's trafficking ring should also be given the same treatment.

I don't think people realise the severity of the situation if it turns out that Andrew is guilty.

The thing is that there is no one actively pursuing to indict Andrew on any of these things at this time. There have been allegations made by Ms. Guiffre but until she files a civil lawsuit, anything Andrew may or may not have done are exactly that. Alleged. Innocent until proven guilty kind of thing.

In the UK, the Met Police looked into Guiffre's claims and as Guiffre was of the age of consent in the UK, the Met police found no reason to pursue that case. As far as I'm aware, there have been no other allegations against Andrew other than Guiffre's.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

My concern is whether or not Andrew KNEW these young women were trafficked. We are not discussing little girls with pigtails and dolls.

There are photos of them living the high life on the Riviera looking to be having a very glamorous life with Naomi Campbell among others.

Virginia looks anything BUT uncertain/confused/ unhappy in her now infamous photo with her arm around Prince Andrew.

So my question is...did PA know these young women had been trafficked? Or did Epstein and Ghislaine give the impression that they were simply part of a very willing harem who were around to provide certain ...amenities...to Epstein's important friends in exchange for access to the glamorous life of mansions, private jets, and Riviera parties?

By all means. If proof can be found that Andrew KNEW these were trafficked females and that he engaged in activities with minors while KNOWING THAT THEY WERE MINORS..then yes. Throw the book at him and let it rip.

But we are not there yet. Period.

 

[Osipi]

To be honest, its not impossible that Andrew never even gave it a thought about just how those girls were available. He could have thought that they were just part of the Epstein "posse" that surrounded him much like the footmen, butlers and valets and such that always has surrounded him his entire life. Andrew is not the most altruistic person on this planet nor is he the brightest crayon in the box.

I think Epstein and Maxwell took great pains to keep their activities very private even to the extent of keeping dossiers on their friends that enjoyed the "perks" of Epstein's circle. These two definitely knew what they were doing and took great pains to keep just how those girls were available secret. Other men, perhaps a bit more conscientious, that caught on to what was really going on, would have blown the whole works out of the water and Epstein and Maxwell took great pains to ensure that didn't happen.

 

[Mbruno]

A small sunfish who still may have committed rape and sexual encounters with underage girls. That IS a big crime and should have a lengthy prison sentence IMO. The others involved in Epstein's trafficking ring should also be given the same treatment.

I don't think people realise the severity of the situation if it turns out that Andrew is guilty.

I am not aware of anyone having accused Prince Andrew of rape. Nor am I aware of the Prince having had sex with anyone under the age of consent in England.



I also think it is premature to make conjectures about the severity of Andrew being guilty when he has not even been charged with any crime yet.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy (2010-2020)

I am not aware of anyone having accused Prince Andrew of rape. Nor am I aware of the Prince having had sex with anyone under the age of consent in England.



I also think it is premature to make conjectures about the severity of Andrew being guilty when he has not even been charged with any crime yet.

The Guardian states that an underaged girl was forced to have intercourse with Andrew - that’s a clear definition of “rape” if it is true:


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ince-andrew-us-court-document-jeffrey-epstein

It’s not premature to say that what Andrew might be involved with is severe either. Unless you are of the mindset of those who inflict these crimes (obviously not saying you are, but in general) any sexual interactions with minors who cannot give consent is a severe crime. I know the court may give different sentences depending on the nature of the crime but morally all sexual interactions with minors (especially if Andrew knew that they were minors) will have severe consequences for Andrew’s future - or lack of - in the BRF and associations with the life he was used to.

Note that I’ve always said *if* in my posts, as we still do not know the outcomes of the case. So I’m not saying it’s definite Andrew is involved because he has not yet been proven guilty by court. Nobody knows any confirmed cases, but several victims of Epstein’s trafficking ring have come forward.