The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Hope Andrew walks to church with his family simply because some in here are sentencing him without conviction. He has already given up his charities but it will never be enough for some.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-revealed-used-pseudonym-set-secret-firm.html

Prince Andrew riding out at Windsor as it's revealed he used pseudonym to set up secret firm with a sports tycoon who 'organised 2001 Thailand trip' during which Duke was spotted on yacht with topless women
I guess there is endless material to dig into ... lots of shady business dealings have been mentioned many years before when he was Airmiles Andy and the Special Representative job was created for him to give him something to do ... if the press is willing to dig deeper and deeper we will have years ahead of bad headlines concerning Andrew.

 

[Osipi]

Hope Andrew walks to church with his family simply because some in here are sentencing him without conviction. He has already given up his charities but it will never be enough for some.

At least walking to church (or however else he gets there), he's heading in the right direction to a place where millions of people find a source of forgiveness and solace and compassion when they need it. Was going to state a quote. Something about throwing stones but it seems to escape me at the moment.

The mistakes, the foibles, the wrongdoings of other people bring out something in us that seem to define who we are as people.

 

[Denville]

Hope Andrew walks to church with his family simply because some in here are sentencing him without conviction. He has already given up his charities but it will never be enough for some.

He only gave up his charities when pretty much forced to do so by the fact that they were all dropping him, in disgust. Just like he only expressed regret when he had done his interview, and it was no doubt pointed out to him that the public were disgusted that he had not shown any sympathy for the victims nor regret for his friendship with Epstein. Andrew has not convinced me that he has any remorse fro his behaviour and probably does not believe that he's done anyting wrong...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

At least walking to church (or however else he gets there), he's heading in the right direction to a place where millions of people find a source of forgiveness and solace and compassion when they need it. Was going to state a quote. Something about throwing stones but it seems to escape me at the moment.

The mistakes, the foibles, the wrongdoings of other people bring out something in us that seem to define who we are as people.

He does not make the impression of realizing he has done something wrong, morally or even committed a crime. Somebody said he's worried about money, I agree. Money and connections seem to be of utmost importance to him, as he justifies his friendship with Epstein in the interview with connections that come with money. Same goes for Sarah of course.

 

[sophie25]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-revealed-used-pseudonym-set-secret-firm.html

Prince Andrew riding out at Windsor as it's revealed he used pseudonym to set up secret firm with a sports tycoon who 'organised 2001 Thailand trip' during which Duke was spotted on yacht with topless women
I guess there is endless material to dig into ... lots of shady business dealings have been mentioned many years before when he was Airmiles Andy and the Special Representative job was created for him to give him something to do ... if the press is willing to dig deeper and deeper we will have years ahead of bad headlines concerning Andrew.

The word 'woman' looks in question in this yacht picture, as in so many others involving Andrew. The female in the black bikini bottoms looks very young, AGAIN! He seems to have been in thrall to a succession of rich creeps over the years but then I suppose most people gravitate towards like minded individuals.

 

[Osipi]

I'm totally in agreement that Andrew, by showing his own character traits, has presented himself as arrogant, egocentric, elitist and quite a few other adjectives I could apply to his demeanor and therefore, cannot possibly see himself as doing something wrong or even being deserving of the criticism and the "punishment" that's being levied against him at this time.

As I've said before, pride goes before a fall and Andrew was standing at the edge of a cliff without a parachute or a bungee cord. Sometimes too, it takes drastic events such as Andrew has been going through to hit home to a person what needs to be learned in life. Its never too late to learn, change one's outlook on life and make changes.

Mistakes have been my greatest teacher in life and I count them as a blessing. I'm hoping Andrew will someday come to see it this way too but I'm not Andrew. However, I can feel compassion for the man. The storm he's going through right now is a pretty strong one and he needs all the love, compassion and guidance that he can find right now and I'm hoping he finds that in his family.

Maybe I'm just weird though. I kind of value my weirdness at times.

 

[Denville]

He does not make the impression of realizing he has done something wrong, morally or even committed a crime. Somebody said he's worried about money, I agree. Money and connections seem to be of utmost importance to him, as he justifies his friendship with Epstein in the interview with connections that come with money. Same goes for Sarah of course.

quite obvious. I cannot believe that Andrew is in the least bit remorseful or want to "make a new start".. He said so blatantly that he did not regret the friendship because it gave him connextions. THen when there was such bad reaction to his interview, he made a token attempt at claiming he felt sympathy for the victims... So

 

[Osipi]

quite obvious. I cannot believe that Andrew is in the least bit remorseful or want to "make a new start".. He said so blatantly that he did not regret the friendship because it gave him connextions. THen when there was such bad reaction to his interview, he made a token attempt at claiming he felt sympathy for the victims... So

I'll be totally honest here and state that I don't believe, for one minute, that Andrew composed those words of remorse and sympathy for the victims in the aftermath of the interview. I do believe someone else composed that statement for him and told him what he needed to say.

 

[Kataryn]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-revealed-used-pseudonym-set-secret-firm.html

Prince Andrew riding out at Windsor as it's revealed he used pseudonym to set up secret firm with a sports tycoon who 'organised 2001 Thailand trip' during which Duke was spotted on yacht with topless women
I guess there is endless material to dig into ... lots of shady business dealings have been mentioned many years before when he was Airmiles Andy and the Special Representative job was created for him to give him something to do ... if the press is willing to dig deeper and deeper we will have years ahead of bad headlines concerning Andrew.

I thought when you have a title in the Uk, you can use any shortened form if you want it. Okay, the media explains that He is the Duke of York in England and the Earl of Inverness in Scotland, but I see no reason to call it a pseudonym if he uses the short form of his name in a way that allegedly is legal at least in Scotland.

Just think of His Lordship, the Marquess of Lothian. When Michael Kerr was born as the heir of his father, the then Marquess of Lothian, he by courtesy was named Earl of Ancram, though that was in fact still his father's title. When he became a lawyer first and then a member of parliament, he became known as Michael Ancram officially. When in 2004 his father died, Michael Ancram became The Marquess of Lothian, but stuck to being officially simply Michael Ancram (he has no son, so the title Earl of Ancram was still his to use) and only when he became a life peer in November 2010 as Baron Kerr of Monteviot he became a member of the House of Lords, now using his higest title as Marquess.

Sounds complicated but that's how you can use the parts of your titles that you want.

So I don't see why there is such a tamtam about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, HRH The Duke of York and Earl of Inverness, being known as Andrew Inverness.

It's exactly the same as The Marquess of Lothian sitting in parliament as Michael Ancram.

 

[texankitcat]

I'll be totally honest here and state that I don't believe, for one minute, that Andrew composed those words of remorse and sympathy for the victims in the aftermath of the interview. I do believe someone else composed that statement for him and told him what he needed to say.

I don’t believe he did either. Clearly it was damage control by the firm. Andrew seems to lack the ability to hold himself accountable for anything.

 

[Lumutqueen]

So I don't see why there is such a tamtam about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, HRH The Duke of York and Earl of Inverness, being known as Andrew Inverness.

Also something his nephews have done William and Henry Wales.

 

[Denville]

I'll be totally honest here and state that I don't believe, for one minute, that Andrew composed those words of remorse and sympathy for the victims in the aftermath of the interview. I do believe someone else composed that statement for him and told him what he needed to say.

Obviously.. he was told that he needed to make some pretence of remorse but equally obviously he does not feel it

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

He only gave up his charities when pretty much forced to do so by the fact that they were all dropping him, in disgust. Just like he only expressed regret when he had done his interview, and it was no doubt pointed out to him that the public were disgusted that he had not shown any sympathy for the victims nor regret for his friendship with Epstein. Andrew has not convinced me that he has any remorse fro his behaviour and probably does not believe that he's done anyting wrong...

This is the example of why you should never try to please the public...nothing Andrew does will ever be enough; if he does an interview he doesn't show enough emotion, if he retreats from public life, he will be lambasted for not writing a personal letter of apology to the people of Britain, if he writes the letter I'm sure the follow up will be "give money to whatever charity having to do with victims or something like that. Andrew doesn't show enough remorse doesn't show enough regret etc.
All Andrew should do now after the interview and leaving the charities and public life is lay low go about his life with his family get ready to walk Beatrice down the aisle and wait to see if the law wants anything to do with him.
Don't try to appease a public that will never be appeased.

And just to clarify I am not Team Andrew nor do I support him or his decisions; I think he's a fool. I just disagree with the idea that he should just disappear when we don't know if he did anything wrong; being spoiled and stupid isn't a crime and I will wait for the law to tell me he actually did something wrong.

 

[sndral]

...
So I don't see why there is such a tamtam about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, HRH The Duke of York and Earl of Inverness, being known as Andrew Inverness.

It's exactly the same as The Marquess of Lothian sitting in parliament as Michael Ancram.

Also something his nephews have done William and Henry Wales.

There is a difference between using Andrew York as William and Harry used Wales as a ‘last name’ in school and the military or Andrew Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor like other family members use as a last name when one is needed, v. intentionally choosing a subsidiary title’s land designation as a last name to hide your association with an offshore tax haven which is why it is suspicious. If there’s nothing fishy going on, why go out of your way to hide what you’re up to?

 

[Waika]

I agree that Andrew is an idiot, he's made terrible decisions. He may have abused teenage girls, to be honest I was/am leaning that way. The statement released after his interview was most likely written by a crisis management team, certainly not Andrew. However, I still feel the need to hear the results of all the investigations before demanding his family stop socializing with him or that he not attend church on Christmas Day.

 

[Kataryn]

There is a difference between using Andrew York as William and Harry used Wales as a ‘last name’ in school and the military or Andrew Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor like other family members use as a last name when one is needed, v. intentionally choosing a subsidiary title’s land designation as a last name to hide your association with an offshore tax haven which is why it is suspicious. If there’s nothing fishy going on, why go out of your way to hide what you’re up to?

Look, we don't know if there is something fishy here. I personally don't like Andrew (and his money-eating ex-wife) but the way the media comes up with big "exclusives" makes me wary. All wealthy people have numerous investments and those dealing internationally use adresses in such tax havens. From the point of view of the richer people, it's normal, it is not illegal and I bet even the journos who became rich through their jobs (like Piers Morgan etc.) deal with their money via investment agents and business co-ops.

So as long as we don't know what exactly Andrew did wrong, I don't wish to see him pulled down from the position he was born into.

Or showing pics of Andrew riding out in Windsor: he lives there and he owns at least a horse which he uses to ride out. So what??? The British tabloids are trying to raise the wrath of the people against Andrew and I'd okay that if they had reasons and proof of his misdeeds.

Yes, I can imagine what he was up to with Epstein. But fact is that Epstein did not only deal in underage girls but had elder ladies for his guests as well. The DM printed the fact that a housekeeper told that Andrew had an affair with a "young" neurosurgeon at Epstein's as if it was a crime. Andrew is not married and I have yet to see a 14 yo neurosurgeon! To have this qualification, you have to be closer to 30 than to 20! But they present this story (if it is true after all) as if it was proof that Andrew is some sort of swine. He may be but proof it with real facts!

 

[Denville]

This is the example of why you should never try to please the public...nothing Andrew does will ever be enough; if he does an interview he doesn't show enough emotion, if he retreats from public life, he will be lambasted for not writing a personal letter of apology to the people of Britain, if he writes the letter I'm sure the follow up will be "give money to whatever charity having to do with victims or something like that. Andrew doesn't show enough remorse doesn't show enough regret etc.
All Andrew should do now after the interview and leaving the charities and public life is lay low go about his life with his family get ready to walk Beatrice down the aisle and wait to see if the law wants anything to do with him.
Don't try to appease a public that will never be appeased.

And just to clarify I am not Team Andrew nor do I support him or his decisions; I think he's a fool. I just disagree with the idea that he should just disappear when we don't know if he did anything wrong; being spoiled and stupid isn't a crime and I will wait for the law to tell me he actually did something wrong.

He has done lots of things that are wrong.. just because they may not be illegal....

 

[Denville]

There is a difference between using Andrew York as William and Harry used Wales as a ‘last name’ in school and the military or Andrew Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor like other family members use as a last name when one is needed, v. intentionally choosing a subsidiary title’s land designation as a last name to hide your association with an offshore tax haven which is why it is suspicious. If there’s nothing fishy going on, why go out of your way to hide what you’re up to?

Of course it is different to Will and Harry using Wales as a surname.. it is deliberately done for some supsicioius reason...and done, it seems to deceive...

 

[Mirabel]

So as long as we don't know what exactly Andrew did wrong, I don't wish to see him pulled down from the position he was born into.
!

The best thing Andrew could do now is to distance himself from his ex-wife (probably not going to happen) and go live in Switzerland for a few years (also unlikely), until memories of the scandals fade.
(I think he is a foolish man but I suspect he's been dragged into more than one dodgy deal by money-grubbing Fergie.)

Otherwise, the press will keep delving into shady financial dealings while damage to the RF escalates.

 

[Denville]

The best thing Andrew could do now is to distance himself from his ex-wife (probably not going to happen) and go live in Switzerland for a few years (also unlikely), until memories of the scandals fade.
(I think he is a foolish man but I suspect he's been dragged into more than one dodgy deal by money-grubbing Fergie.)

Otherwise, the press will keep delving into shady financial dealings while damage to the RF escalates.

I don't think that it is a case fo Fergie being to blame. Unfortunatltey the "real Andrew" emerged at his interview and showed how utterly horrible, selfish, stupid and dishonest he is...He and Fergie were both involved in money grubbing.. and dodgy deals.. and all he regrets is that he will have to stop or curtail doing this in the future...

 

[Osipi]

After reading various articles concerning the whole Epstein saga, a thought occurred to me of an adjective that very easily could be applied to Andrew and even may have affected how he thought of his relationship with Epstein (and Maxwell) and after reading the article in Vanity Fair I'm going to link to, perhaps there's even an element in his interview which explains perhaps why Andrew was so averse to incriminating himself in any kind of wrongdoings in his relationship with Epstein. Fear.

The adjective I'm going to apply to Andrew right here and now is one simple word. Gullible. Egocentric people just love to have their egos stroked. Mix an egocentric and gullible person with a sociopath like Epstein who is described by a ex-girlfriend as "“He always wanted to give the impression that he was an international man of mystery—‘I control everyone and everything, I collect people, I own people, I can damage people,’ ” People with character traits such as Andrew exhibits fall for this manipulation hook, line and sinker and Epstein was a master manipulator. If ever there was a person that would exhibit gullible behavior also, it would be Sarah Ferguson also. Both Andrew and Sarah saw in Epstein the bright and shiny and shimmering glitter kind of person with influence up the wazoo that they really wanted to be and perhaps were too blind to see that he was manipulating them. Even in this article, I see how even Ghislaine Maxwell could have been lured in to this spider's web but that, in my eyes, does not excuse anything she's done to aid and abet Epstein's perverted lifestyle.

These, of course, are just my thoughts and my suppositions and in no way excuses *anyone* from wrongdoings whether criminal, morally or ethically or any other word used to describe what association with Epstein brings about in those he associated with. Andrew has proven with his interview that his moral compass is missing its needle and he's not the sharpest pencil in the pencil box.

The article, to me, is a good read and helped me understand just how Epstein was able to manipulate, influence and scare the living hell out of people when he really wanted to.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/curious-sociopathy-of-jeffrey-epstein-ex-girlfriends

 

[MaryQueenofScots]

Often best to read "source documents" rather than the media's interpretations ... you will the "court Exhibits" that were unsealed relating ot the Epstein v Giuffre Case 18-2868 here https://4cminews.com/?p=45755#read

 

[camelot23ca]

I'll be totally honest here and state that I don't believe, for one minute, that Andrew composed those words of remorse and sympathy for the victims in the aftermath of the interview. I do believe someone else composed that statement for him and told him what he needed to say.

Royals don’t write their own speeches or statements even under the most benign circumstances. At the very least there will be a second pair of eyes looking things over to ensure there are no obvious factual errors. More likely, though, the royal will be presented with a first draft of the speech, asked if there’s anything they’d like to add, probably say no, and that’s that.

Once things are at the point where legal action may be on the table I think it’s safe to say the composition of anything released to the public will have come from a well trained team of professionals. Best case scenario, one of them may have sat down with Andrew to get a sense of what his true feelings were, which the statement then reflected.

I think Andrew would have done well to stick to these sorts of written statements. Being under pressure from a good interviewer asking challenging questions has caused plenty of smart, experienced, well trained politicians to fold like a house of cards in televised interviews. Andrew either didn’t take the interview seriously enough or vastly overestimated his own talents.

 

[ACO]

I agree. Andrew should have released that statement first and not did the TV interview. A lot of this mess wouldn't have happened but alas. His ego took over and bite him.

 

[Denville]

I agree. Andrew should have released that statement first and not did the TV interview. A lot of this mess wouldn't have happened but alas. His ego took over and bite him.

But he wasn't going to was he? I cut him some slack initially but I have the awful feeling tht the "real Andrew" came out in htat interview and it was not a pretty sight. His stupidty and his utter lack of "noticing" people other than his own privileged circle.. showed up and it has destroyed him...

 

[tommy100]

The failure of the interview was entirely Andrew’s, it showed the real him and showed exactly why this friendship with Epstein occurred in the first place, Andrew believes he can do no wrong

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I agree that Andrew is an idiot, he's made terrible decisions. He may have abused teenage girls, to be honest I was/am leaning that way. The statement released after his interview was most likely written by a crisis management team, certainly not Andrew. However, I still feel the need to hear the results of all the investigations before demanding his family stop socializing with him or that he not attend church on Christmas Day.

Basically This

 

[Empress Merel]

I agree. Andrew should have released that statement first and not did the TV interview. A lot of this mess wouldn't have happened but alas. His ego took over and bite him.

He deserves the mess he got into. It's a good thing he did the interview. It showed people the true Andrew and it's ugly. We're past the time where priviliged people get away without facing the consequences of their abominable behaviour

 

[ACO]

Oh I am glad he did it. No mistake about that. He his arrogance got the best of him and because if it his true colors were shown. Good. That said, it was easily avoidable. The most basic thing to say was remorse for the woman and distance himself from a pedophile. He did neither.