The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022


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MARG said:
I have a couple of queries about these 'underage' girls. I am not attempting to victim blame but how did these girls pass through customs. They must have had passports, but what parent allows their school age child to travel instead of go to school?
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Not only were no questions asked by the custom officials, but the plane in question was known and called by them as the "Lolita Express", what has a clear sexual connotation!

And the parents - white underclass from the Trailer Park from what I did read.

These are circumstances like in a corrupt Banana Republic somewhere in the global South! And Prince Andrew? Was then one of the perv Dons and Oligarchs.
 
MARG said:
I have a couple of queries about these 'underage' girls. I am not attempting to victim blame but how did these girls pass through customs. They must have had passports, but what parent allows their school age child to travel instead of go to school?

Were they all runaways with passports falsely obtained? If not, what parent allows their child to go swanning around the world in a strange man's private jet?
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Those younger than 16 might have only travelled during holidays but worked part-time at hotels & clubs close to home. The 16+ girls could be free all the time. If the parents trusted the recruiters eg a respectable looking, persuasive woman assures them this is a good opportunity to learn health & beauty treatments, which could lead to high paid work in top hotel spas, some parents might have been trusting enough to permit it. Similarly with the model agencies - using an assuring recruiter to gain parental permission for travel.

Unfortunately, it also sounds as though some parents might have been paid to permit their daughters to travel - the story of the three 12yr old French girls sounds horrific.
 
I am worried that these young women were especially vulnerable near the rich and famous. The imbalance in power and influence is so overwhelmingly in favour of the wealthy that the interests of the women as the true victims in this case will be put to the side. The emphasis will be on exonerating precisely those who can afford the legal representation.
 
MARG said:
I have a couple of queries about these 'underage' girls. I am not attempting to victim blame but how did these girls pass through customs. They must have had passports, but what parent allows their school age child to travel instead of go to school?

Were they all runaways with passports falsely obtained? If not, what parent allows their child to go swanning around the world in a strange man's private jet?
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The kind of parent that most are blessed to not have.
Poverty, parental addiction, any number of things can lead to abusive, neglectful, or absent parents, there are a lot of marginalized young people in the U.S..
https://arkofhopeforchildren.org/child-trafficking/child-trafficking-statistics
https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking
 
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sndral said:
The kind of parent that most are blessed to not have.
Poverty, parental addiction, any number of things can lead to abusive, neglectful, or absent parents, there are a lot of marginalized young people in the U.S..
https://arkofhopeforchildren.org/child-trafficking/child-trafficking-statistics
https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking
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This is not always the case. Plenty of intact, middle-class families allowed their children to have stayovers with, or to travel with, the parish priest, or Boy Scout leader. And we all know how that turned out.

There has been such an emphasis on “stranger danger” that many parents were naive and trusting about people they knew, including family members, teachers, etc.
 
Lainey, of Lainey Gossip,
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The loathing of a culture other than ones own is what really 'leaps off the page' there...
 
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The dripping continues. That foot massage email mentioned the women were Russian. Given the current international climate it's disturbing and here's a history lesson

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair

I wonder if MI5 and other security agencies are worry history may be repeating itself.
 
Wow! That is some far out speculation there. Way far out. I'd prefer to stick to the facts of the controversy.
 
Actually, I think Lainey really summed things up rather nicely her article. This is whole issue with the allegations against Prince Andrew with these victims and Epstein is a pretty massive scandal and folks should be outraged by it all. As I said before, none of this is a done deal and it’s all up in the air how it’s all going to end.
 
ladongas said:
This is not always the case. Plenty of intact, middle-class families allowed their children to have stayovers with, or to travel with, the parish priest, or Boy Scout leader. And we all know how that turned out.

There has been such an emphasis on “stranger danger” that many parents were naive and trusting about people they knew, including family members, teachers, etc.
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very true.... and even if it were the case that it was mostly "careless" parents letting their children get into these situations that does not mean that the Lions share of the blame is not with the people like Epstein who have set themselves up as exploiters
 
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Since Epstein killed himself, the prosecutors are not going to let things just go. First, they enabled victims to sue his estate and I think they are going through every piece of "evidence" they have to see if or how many of the great and good they can get to.

As to Andrew, until Florida officially nullifies the Epstein plea deal they are in a bit of a bind. Once they rescind that the available evidence can be combed through to try to make a case or cases against any of Epstein's friends, including Andrew.

The release of all the Florida sealed files may, however, have ruined any opportunity to do that as so much has been published, much of it anecdotal and as such, inadmissible, that they may have blown it in the lawyers rush to get the goods to sue the estate.

We at least have an idea that timelines were definitely of an issue in allegations against Andrew and unless they have evidence, as opposed to innuendo, Andrew will quite rightly face no charges. SDNY stated that there was no case for Andrew to answer there and it remains to be seen what is found in Florida.
 
MARG said:
I have a couple of queries about these 'underage' girls. I am not attempting to victim blame but how did these girls pass through customs. They must have had passports, but what parent allows their school age child to travel instead of go to school?

Were they all runaways with passports falsely obtained? If not, what parent allows their child to go swanning around the world in a strange man's private jet?
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I'm not familiar with private travel really but do they have a need for all the passports and etc if flying in private jets to various destinations? I'm not sure how it works..do they always have to go thru customs?

If yes then fake passports or perhaps bribes?


LaRae
 
Pranter said:
I'm not familiar with private travel really but do they have a need for all the passports and etc if flying in private jets to various destinations? I'm not sure how it works..do they always have to go thru customs?



If yes then fake passports or perhaps bribes?





LaRae
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By no means an expert on private travel. But the people travelling and their bags must clear customs. Usually there’s either a private lane for them, a private section or even at JFK (I think) there’s a whole suite where they go through the immigration procedure, their bags are scanned and checked all whilst having a glass of champagne in their hand. Terminal Five at Heathrow has a similar facility for First Class BA Customers.
 
A bit of a summary in The Guardian:

'Boorish and self-centred': little love for Prince Andrew over Epstein links.
Duke denies any wrongdoing but revelations continue to make uncomfortable reading

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...tle-love-for-prince-andrew-over-epstein-links

Also in The Guardian, an opinion piece from Marina Hyde:

Poor Prince Andrew is ‘appalled’ by Epstein. Let that be an end to it.
Perhaps a royal wedding for Princess Beatrice might offer a welcome distraction for a man-of-the-world under unfair scrutiny.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/23/prince-andrew-appalled-epstein-royal-wedding


Meanwhile, French prosecutors have opened an inquiry into rape allegations against the late US financier Jeffrey Epstein. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49452786
 
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This whole affair could just fizzle out - and that is the likely outcome.
 
Denville said:
I don't think so. This has not gone away.....
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From what I've been seeing, this may go on for years as the victims try to sue Epstein's estate for damages. Putting everything into "trusts" is going to make that a bit harder to do. I do, however, see all legal action being directed either at Epstein's estate or his cohorts that aided and abetted him in his crimes. My off the wall thought about the "trusts" is that the will was drawn up and filed two days before Epstein committed suicide and a couple weeks after his first suicide attempt and he was placed on suicide watch. To invalidate the will, it may be shown that Epstein was *not* of sound mind at the time of signing the will.

I really don't think Andrew is going to be part of any legal proceedings. From where I sit, Andrew is small potatoes and most likely very difficult to prove any wrongdoings. I'm not totally exonerating Andrew but I don't believe there is much that can be held up as evidence of wrongdoings beyond a reasonable doubt. His reputation has already taken quite a hit and that's something he'll have to live with for the rest of his life.

And so the Epstain saga continues.
 
I assume the duke of York will be retired to the country side for the time being? I can't see how he can continue his normal duties for the time being while his association with this monster is becoming more clear.

I have not seen any political reactions to this matter. In my own country I would imagine that the close friendship of a member of the Royal House with a pedophile would immidiately raise questions in parlament, which means the prime minister would need to get involved. Is that the case in the UK as well?
 
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Osipi said:
From what I've been seeing, this may go on for years as the victims try to sue Epstein's estate for damages. Putting everything into "trusts" is going to make that a bit harder to do. I do, however, see all legal action being directed either at Epstein's estate or his cohorts that aided and abetted him in his crimes. My off the wall thought about the "trusts" is that the will was drawn up and filed two days before Epstein committed suicide and a couple weeks after his first suicide attempt and he was placed on suicide watch. To invalidate the will, it may be shown that Epstein was *not* of sound mind at the time of signing the will.

I really don't think Andrew is going to be part of any legal proceedings. From where I sit, Andrew is small potatoes and most likely very difficult to prove any wrongdoings. I'm not totally exonerating Andrew but I don't believe there is much that can be held up as evidence of wrongdoings beyond a reasonable doubt. His reputation has already taken quite a hit and that's something he'll have to live with for the rest of his life.

And so the Epstain saga continues.
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i meant that the association with Epstein is going to be a problem for Andrew for many years to come.. Its not going to go away...
 
Denville said:
i meant that the association with Epstein is going to be a problem for Andrew for many years to come.. Its not going to go away...
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Oh definitely. I wouldn't be surprised if people tend to back off from him just because of what is already known and when you're in the charity and patronages and do good business, it makes people leery. Once one gets a shady reputation, that's what people remember about them.

One article I read that was posted here even said that Andrew doesn't want to step foot in the US for fear of being drawn into a civil suit. That's a big possibility. The sad thing is he was slated to take his Pitch@Palace to the US and now that's been put on ice.
 
I must have missed that link. Could you direct me to the right post.
 
Osipi said:
Oh definitely. I wouldn't be surprised if people tend to back off from him just because of what is already known and when you're in the charity and patronages and do good business, it makes people leery. Once one gets a shady reputation, that's what people remember about them.

One article I read that was posted here even said that Andrew doesn't want to step foot in the US for fear of being drawn into a civil suit. That's a big possibility. The sad thing is he was slated to take his Pitch@Palace to the US and now that's been put on ice.
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Yes he now has a very shady reputation. it does not matter if he did not take part in illegal activities.. I don't think he did.. but his association with Epstein was something he should have never had In the first place (Epstein was obviously a sleazy character).. and if he had gotten mixed up with him, he should have made sure it was ended once Epstein was convicted... Now that's going to hang around him for the rest of his life...
 
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