The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Queen Camilla]

Virginia Roberts was not a sexual slave. She was a high paid prostitute. She said Epstein paid her $15,000 after she had sex with Andrew. She also states Andrew was not aware of Epstein paying her. She states her normal fee was $300 for sex in the U.S but higher if she flew outside of the U.S.. She was not a slave. She was not held captive. She was not living under Epstein roof. She was a prostitute who was on call.

The age of consent was 16/17, by her own admission she was 17. Even if the story is true, Andrew did not have sex with an under aged girl. An under aged girl would have been 15 or younger she was 2 years over the age limit.

Her father's story conflicts with her story. He claims she not a runaway but grew up in a loving home.

The headline should read a woman claims she had sex with Andrew when she was a 17 year prostitute.

 

[Princess of Durham]

It is interesting to me that now it appears that she is writing her memoirs ... Quite a run up to the publishing of her book! Or is it merely a coincidence?



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[Queen Penelope]

It is interesting to me that now it appears that she is writing her memoirs ... Quite a run up to the publishing of her book! Or is it merely a coincidence?



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Quite the lead up to publication indeed!

 

[Zonk]

Human trafficking, the victimization of children, and rape are such serious issues that I would hope she isn't just trying to get publicity for a book. Nor do I think that these aren't just accusations that should be thrown around for fun. There are true victims of these crimes who because of the fear of coming forward don't come forward for this to be some sort of joke, or a way to get money.

Right now, I am with those who believe Andrew is guilty of poor judgement. Also, there is so much information that is coming out that sounds just crazy. Alan D. is not going to go down quietly if he is innocent...and that makes you question everything else. Now she has met the Queen...I don't know if that is true..and that makes me question her credibility. You really can't go off the Daily Mail or Mirror...cause let's face it...they are not really known for their investigative journalism. More sensationalism if nothing else.

I don't know about anyone else but if I have been friends who someone for a bit, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Heck, there are people who have been married to serial killers who had no idea what their husbands did when they left the house. I am a firm believer of sometimes people act the way they think you want them to act. Likewise some people see what they want to see. Let's face it, you always see older rich gentlemen with young ladies. So I am not sure Andrew would question why these young ladies were there. And if you look you are of age.....I am not sure what you or could do.

Unfortunately for Andrew, the accusations are enough for some to believe he is guilty as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread and the comments in the Daily Mail. I am sorry but some of this just doesn't add up. Why would the feds not pick this up...why not charge Epstein for more crimes....

 

[Roslyn]

For those who are interested, here is the Notice of Motion seeking to join Jane Does #3 and #4 to the original proceedings commenced by Jane Does #1 and #2: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/files/jane-doe-1-and-jane-doe-2-v-u-s.pdf

Here is the judgment of 26 September 2011 which contains a lot more background information: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/JaneDoes1and2vsUS_9-26-2011.pdf

 

[Roslyn]

Given the age of consent in the jurisdictions where she alleged that she slept with Andrew - NY, London and the Caribbean - and that in those places at that time the age of consent was 16 or 17 and she was 17 he didn't actually have 'sex with a minor' as legally for the purpose of having sex she wasn't a minor.

That is why the case had to be heard in Florida as in the other jurisdictions the case would have been thrown out from the get-go as it wasn't illegal.

She was still a minor, even though she was over the age of consent. It is not alleged that she was under age at the time, just that she was a minor. The fact she was a minor is relevant to the Federal sex trafficking charges against Epstein, or, rather, the charges that were not proceeded with against Epstein though they could be because the girls were minors, i.e. under 18. The plea bargain agreement only required him to plead guilty to the State felony charges, hence the relatively short sentence. That is the reason for the complaint made by Jane Does #1, #2, and now #3 and #4: this handy plea bargain was done in secret and without notice to them.

 

[Meadow]

The age thing is confusing it wasn't illegal in the places she was but it is in Florida I'm confused about how Florida can act against something that happened in another country. As for the sex slave story she says she was a runaway and groomed for what she did, she wanted to please Epstein. There are many women forced into prostitution they aren't always beaten there is emotional and verbal abuse. Most of the girls Epstein employed were underage so he had a taste for young girls who are very at risk by a man who knows how to get his own way. I don't buy her fathers story for starters who let's their 14 or 15 year old daughter travel around and stay with such an older man. If other women come forward then that could help her case. A gardener also stated underoath that he saw Andrew in a pool with naked young girls and he said that Andrew got daily massages. There are a lot of questions that will probably never get answered. I don't think this case will go away and Andrew who is guilty of poor judgement will have some mud stick to him no matter what. He will need to be careful in the future. There are also other high powered men involved but of course the press will focus on Andrew and it is claimed Andrew may off lobbied to help get him a lighter sentence which wouldn't have gone down well with the victims if true. So far we are getting lot's of headlines if this goes to court we may get more but I don't see Andrew being able to truly defend himself from this without going to court of some kind. He said she said is very messy.

 

[VictoriaB]

Given the age of consent in the jurisdictions where she alleged that she slept with Andrew - NY, London and the Caribbean - and that in those places at that time the age of consent was 16 or 17 and she was 17 he didn't actually have 'sex with a minor' as legally for the purpose of having sex she wasn't a minor.

That is why the case had to be heard in Florida as in the other jurisdictions the case would have been thrown out from the get-go as it wasn't illegal.

Reading the judgment & motion for joinder posted by Roslyn, it seems Roberts has filed the motion in Florida because that's where the claim filed by Jane Does #1 & #2 is filed.

The original claim was filed in Florida because that's where the U.S. Attorney who accepted the claim against Epstein was based. It was that office which accepted the plea bargain & therefore allegedly breached the victim's civil rights. It looks to have nothing to do with Roberts' age and the age of consent.


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[Rudolph]

Boris Johnson has 'sympathy' for Prince Andrew | Daily Mail Online

Boris Johnson today revealed his 'sympathy' for Prince Andrew over US court claims he had sex with an under-age girl.

The London Mayor hailed the Duke of York for doing a 'huge amount of unsung, unheralded work for this country'.

It follows four days of torrid headlines for the prince after the allegations emerged in court papers on Friday.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Re: the statement that Virginia Roberts met the Queen. We don't know if that actually came from her or was fabricated by her father. But I'll bet those lawyers are going to shut Daddy up pretty quickly, whatever the case.

 

[Mirabel]

I said whatever contact he had with this girl - it was poor judgement


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I don't think Andrew is noted for good judgment.
But I do think if he keeps his head down and doesn't run his mouth, this will all go away as have the scandals in his past.

I was wondering if the RF has diplomatic immunity when in a foreign country?

 

[VictoriaB]

I don't think Andrew is noted for good judgment.
But I do think if he keeps his head down and doesn't run his mouth, this will all go away as have the scandals in his past.

I was wondering if the RF has diplomatic immunity when in a foreign country?

Andrew hasn't been charged with anything so immunity is irrelevant. The damage has been done simply by naming him in a civil matter and I don't think that will go away no matter how much he keeps his head down.

I agree with you that his judgment has always been bad but no past scandal compares with an allegation that that he had sex with a woman (over or underage) against her will.


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[US Royal Watcher]

my thoughts exactly. The few users here going against the girls are gross. Victim blaming is never appropriate, regardless of your intentions.

Parents cannot always be responsible for their children and attempting to lay such a huge blame on them (like a user or two here have seem to have tried to do) is gross. The people who are responsible are the men/women who raped/assaulted these girls.

It's unfortunate that sometimes legitimate victims are not believed but we know that there are many times in which women make false allegations. Ask any Duke Lacrosse player. Being falsely accused of a crime like this can be devastating for the men and their families. It's a balancing act but I would not blindly believe the girl in this case anymore than I would blindly believe any of the men she accuses. I need to know more facts and then will decide whose story is more credible.

In this case, this girl did suffer sexual abuse by Epstein. I also think his sentence was too light. He should still be rotting in jail.

That doesn't mean that every word that comes out of the victim's mouth is true. If Andrew had consensual sex with her, he's a scumbag. But the issue is whether there is reason to believe that Andrew knew she was only 17 and/or that she was coerced into sexual slavery. I've seen no proof one way or another but I am waiting for more information.

I find it "gross" that some posters are trying to excuse the parents in this case. Sadly, there are incorrigible children whose parents can't help them no matter how much they try. It must be terrible to helplessly watch while your child makes such destructive choices.

That doesn't seem to be the case with this father. He says he didn't even ask any questions when his daughter was flying all over the world giving massages to rich men--and there is certainly no indication that he called the authorities.

 

[Rudolph]

Prince Andrew's sex abuser friend Jeffrey Epstein kept a list nicknamed 'The Holy Grail' | Daily Mail Online

Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire child abuser friend of Prince Andrew , cultivated an extraordinary range of contacts - from President Bill Clinton to Mick Jagger - it is revealed today.

Court documents obtained by MailOnline disclose how Epstein kept multiple phone numbers, email and home addresses for the great and the good on both sides of the Atlantic.

The document was presented as an exhibit as lawyers sought a court's permission to take evidence from Bill Clinton and his staff, for whom Epstein had 21 numbers, all under the name of his former advisor Doug Band.

Epstein also had multiple contact details for a string of celebrities, including the Rolling Stones frontman Sir Mick Jagger; Donald Trump's ex-wife Ivana and their daughter Ivanka; and a series of women recorded under 'massage' in the document, nicknamed 'The Holy Grail' by a former employee.

The contents of the document are disclosed by MailOnline as Prince Andrew, the Queen's second son, fights back against allegations that he had sex with Virginia Roberts - who claims she was kept by Epstein as a 'sex slave' - when she was a 17-year-old minor.

 

[Dman]

The thought of Virginia meeting the Queen could be made up. Then again, once in a while, he's seen with different young ladies at Royal Ascot, etc. I really don't know much about his activities between 99 and 02.

 

[Mbruno]

That doesn't mean that every word that comes out of the victim's mouth is true. If Andrew had consensual sex with her, he's a scumbag. But the issue is whether there is reason to believe that Andrew knew she was only 17 and/or that she was coerced into sexual slavery. I've seen no proof one way or another but I am waiting for more information.

Prince Andrew denies having had any kind of sex with Ms Roberts, either consensual or otherwise.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Prince Andrew denies having had any kind of sex with Ms Roberts, either consensual or otherwise.

Of course you are right. What I meant to say is that IF Andrew had sex with her, there is no evidence that he knew she had been coerced into having sex.

The thought of Virginia meeting the Queen could be made up. Then again, once in a while, he's seen with different young ladies at Royal Ascot, etc. I really don't know much about his activities between 99 and 02.

The father has withdrawn his claim that Virginia met met the Queen. Virginia Roberts's father apologises after wrongly boasting his daughter met the Queen | Daily Mail Online

 

[Dman]

Good, because I just felt that was made up.

 

[Ceallach]

Alan Dershowitz has filed defamation suits

Alan Dershowitz files defamation lawsuits over Prince Andrew 'sex slave' claims | Daily Mail Online

 

[Nice Nofret]

I also get massages and like to swim naked in my pool or while sailing (not in front of a gardener or servants, but also when some friends are around - all that is not illigal or any proof of having sex with any of the persons around.

The facts so far are:
She claims to have been a well paid underage prostitued in the service of Epstein,
She is writing a book and is looking for money to make
PA was friends with Epstein
PA denies having had Sex with her

All the bull**** about 'sex slave' is only scandalmongering.

For me there are a lot of things not adding up in her story - only if one takes money in the equation then it starts making sense.

 

[sndral]

The age thing is confusing it wasn't illegal in the places she was but it is in Florida I'm confused about how Florida can act against something that happened in another country.
...

I don't know how it is Australia or Britain, but in the United States each of the 50 states has criminal statutes and you can be prosecuted for breaking the law for crimes committed in a state by the state prosecutors for that state. In the Epstein scenario he was prosecuted by the state Attorneys in Florida. There are also Federal crimes which apply to certain situations and there are separate Federal prosecutors who prosecute them. There are several Federal prosecutors offices (think of them as branches) throughout the country. Some crimes can only be prosecuted by the Feds (not filing your Federal income taxes, for example.) Some crimes can only be prosecuted by the state in which they occurr (having sex with an underage minor in that state and no where else, for example.) In the Epstein case w/ his focus on 12-16 year old girls it seems any number of states could have prosecuted him as he allegedly had relations w/ minors in Nevada, California, Florida and New York. But the Feds had jurisdiction as well because Epstein also flew these girls from one state to another or into/out of the United States which is a Federal crime.

Re: the statement that Virginia Roberts met the Queen. We don't know if that actually came from her or was fabricated by her father. But I'll bet those lawyers are going to shut Daddy up pretty quickly, whatever the case.

And you would have won your bet!

The father has withdrawn his claim that Virginia met met the Queen. Virginia Roberts's father apologises after wrongly boasting his daughter met the Queen | Daily Mail Online

 

[Rudolph]

Duke of York's 'sex abuse' accuser Virginia Roberts 'a serial liar', court papers allege - Telegraph

The woman who claims she was paid to have sex with the Duke of York is a “serial liar” who has set out on a “deliberate” smear campaign, according to a retired Harvard law professor who is suing her for defamation.

Alan Dershowitz, who has vehemently denied Virginia Roberts’s claims that she was forced to have sex with him, says he can demonstrate her claims are untrue.

In court papers filed in Florida on Monday night, Prof Dershowitz says one of her claims – that she had sex with him on Epstein’s private island – was easy to disprove as he had only ever spent one night on the island, when he stayed there with his wife and daughter.

Meanwhile sources close to the Duke have indicated that he does not plan to follow Prof Dershowitz’s example of suing Miss Roberts.

 

[Queen Penelope]

The father has withdrawn his claim that Virginia met met the Queen. Virginia Roberts's father apologises after wrongly boasting his daughter met the Queen | Daily Mail Online

My first reaction when it was alleged she met HM was - oooohhhh, now you've gone to far - I didn't believe it. I was skeptical before, but though everything claimed is plausible. Once I heard that she didn't meet HM, I though, well, it's hard to believe much now.

If Prince Andrew did sleep with her as she alleges, he is guilt of nothing but poor judgement and gross behaviour. There is nothing indicating that he knew the situation was as claimed. Irregardless, he should have known better than to (allegedly) sleep with someone so young.

 

[Dman]

Prince Andrew plans no legal action against woman claiming sex abuse-
Prince Andrew plans no legal action against woman claiming sex abuse - CNN.com

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Dershowitz has filed suit for defamation? Excellent!

Bring. It. On.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes!!!!!!! Epstein and his ilk are despicable, but that doesn't give his victims the right to make all kinds of allegations. After what those girls went through, and what it must have done to their young, vulnerable minds and bodies...shudder...I don't think that their psyches couldn't have come out damaged in some way. They have suffered trauma, and they shouldn't have to suffer more. However, if they're implicating people who weren't involved with them, they need to be held accountable for that.

 

[Roslyn]

Agreed. I just hope Dershowitz isn't doing this in an attempt to make the Jane Does back off.

 

[Rudolph]

I don't like Dershowitz but he has a brilliant legal mind and he isn't one to be crossed and this only helps Prince Andrew.
Virginia Roberts best have her story straight

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Agreed. I just hope Dershowitz isn't doing this in an attempt to make the Jane Does back off.

Dershowitz is absolutely trying to get the Jane Does to back off, which is perfectly acceptable if the Jane Does are lying. He doesn't really have any choice. If they are telling the truth, then it's another reprehensible act.

 

[bertie5252003]

All I can say is I really hope it is not true ....