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  #1841  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:21 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Isn't that a bit harsh? Have we resorted to being Andrew's judge, jury and executioner because last I've heard, the only thing pending against Andrew, himself, is unsubstantiated allegations that haven't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Andrew actually participated in wrongdoings or criminal offenses.

Life goes on and the Queen and her family still attend church together, love each other and support each other through thick and thin. That's how it should be in my book.
Even if Andrew didn't engage in sexual activity with these young girls (and, to date, 2 of them said that he did) he is a disgrace by his association with Epstein in the first place. By all accounts Epstein's houses, planes, yachts etc were a hotbed of vice and the Duke of York was entirely comfortable in this enviroment to the point where he still sought out the man's company after he had been convicted of engaging in sexual activity with a minor. Being "judge and jury"?, yeah I'm pretty comfortable with that at this point.
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  #1842  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloep View Post
I agree, but it won't come to head until the Queen passes, imo + Ghislaine is in deeeep with the British tabloid world/ at least has some close ties to some of the big head figures. (especially the DF).

These are not some made up 'tabloid' stories from 'exclusive(imaginary) sources'. They are first hand and explicit victim testimonials that are supported by (public) photographic evidence. The later is the reason why Andrew's name is tied more concretely to the Epstein case than anyone else's.

If by some miracle this doesn't blow up even more once Charles takes over(and this is a big *if*, imo) the best course of action would be for Andrew to quietly retire from his royal duties/role and hope to the high heavens that it won't be bought up again for the sake of his family.
I find the whole thing very disturbing. It’s just sick and twisted and my deepest sympathies lie with the victims of the sordid sexual abuse/rape. Not the disgusting men & “madam” who targeted the poor girls. I sincerely hope justice is served somehow and that the victims can find some closure. The powerful in society always seem to get away with anything though.
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  #1843  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:38 PM
Rena M.'s Avatar
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Location: Kraków, Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Isn't that a bit harsh?
It's a nightmare for the victims

Quote:
Life goes on and the Queen and her family still attend church together, love each other and support each other through thick and thin. That's how it should be in my book.
I rather support the victims, because they have no royal protection, money, connections and status. They were chosen for grooming because of this.
Attending church in this situation I find cheesy and hypocritical.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzAp5IhyL4
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  #1844  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:44 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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There's a glimmer of hope coming out of all of this Epstein saga for the victims. Many states are now passing new Child Victims Act laws that allow people who suffered sexual abuse as children to file lawsuits in cases going back decades.

"Thanks to Jeffrey Epstein and cases like his, people know more about the gravity of criminal misconduct against a child and what they can do about it," said Anderson, who has handled these types of cases for three decades. "No more pedophile protection."

This, thankfully, allows the victims to file lawsuits against Epstein's estate and that looks like even with Jeffrey dead, the case against him continues.

Perhaps there is good that will come out of all this after all and the victims will get closure they so sorely need. This also points to the possibility that Andrew's name and reputation isn't out of the woods just yet.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-sta...x-abuse-cases/

https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...tate/23792126/
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  #1845  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:31 PM
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The very frustrating thing here for all of us on this thread is that the Wheels of Justice turn very slowly.
So we have to wait and wait to see what happens.
Like all of you I wish justice for the victims and the Law had better not mess this up. Public opinion might quieten down for awhile but the Public will and has every right to raise merry hell if it looks like the right and proper course of action is not taken against the perpetrators.
And so we wait and wait.
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  #1846  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:34 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Epstein has 300 British contacts in his book

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mir...d-18921388.amp

And members of Parliament want Andrew to explain himself.
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  #1847  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:04 AM
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The FBI searched Epstein's island in the Virgin Islands today.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sland-n1041596
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  #1848  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:45 AM
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I find this entire case very disturbing and Prince Andrew's involvement very disconcerning.

IMHO, it has permanently tarnished his reputation because the best case scenario is very poor judgment and lack of empathy for the victims by continuing to associate with a known pedophile.
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  #1849  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Age of consent is 17 in NY state; 18 in Florida. And it depends what else the prosecution has. DM is claiming Ghislaine Maxwell is ready to talk to the feds.
Ghislaine Maxwell talking to the feds, if true, would be an interesting development. Particularly since there are allegations that she acted as a procurer for Andrew as well (article also linked several pages ago
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/07/...e-report-says/ ) although it doesn’t seem she was looking for under age females for Andrew.
I’ve noticed in their most recent denial that BP has said “[a]ny suggestion of impropriety with under age minors is categorically untrue.” I wonder why they didn’t issue a more general denial, since we don’t know the age of the groping victim.
There are reports that the Feds seized discs from a locked safe in the NY mansion that appeared to have photos/videos of people in addition to Epstein. Also interesting that they just now searched the private island.
How often does parliament question a member of the RF? Is there any precedent for that?
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  #1850  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:03 AM
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With regard to Prince Andrew, I think he should be required to disclose the details of all meetings he had with Epstein after his conviction and his reasons for those meetings. This is the period of time when there is no excuse for 'not knowing' he was associating with a sex offender & he must be held to account for it.
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  #1851  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Life goes on and the Queen and her family still attend church together, love each other and support each other through thick and thin. That's how it should be in my book.

This.

Andrew is the Queen's child (many claim he is her favorite child) and of course she is going to support him.
I can't imagine any mother who wouldn't do the same. No matter what.
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  #1852  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:30 AM
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what does supporting someone mean? She must be aware that even if he is her favourite son and of course she loves him he has been at best extremely stupid and wilful in continuing to associate with Epstein who was basically a Pimp.
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  #1853  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:43 AM
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The black book has been opened . There are 16 numbers for Andrew with palace landlines and 18 for Fergie.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Branson.html

Why do you need that many phone numbers? As for the people in the book they are probably talking to their lawyers and crisis management teams right now.
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  #1854  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:54 AM
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I don’t want to be flippant but this has been going on for a decade and although the optics look terrible for Andrew there’s so far never been a shred of evidence against him and he’s strenuously denied any wrongdoing.

Relatively speaking, Andrew is a comparatively small fish compared to some of the people that had personal dealings with Epstein
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  #1855  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
With regard to Prince Andrew, I think he should be required to disclose the details of all meetings he had with Epstein after his conviction and his reasons for those meetings. This is the period of time when there is no excuse for 'not knowing' he was associating with a sex offender & he must be held to account for it.
I agree with this. There were many people who associated with Epstein over the years, and many of them may not have known much about his morally and legally questionable activities, they just accepted his invitations, etc. because he was part of the "in" group. What is more significant to me, are the people who visited his private island, people who accepted frequent rides on the Lolita Express, and people who continued to associate with him even after it became clear that there was something seriously off about his lifestyle. Unfortunately, Andrew seems to fall in that latter group, and I think asking questions about that is a reasonable thing to do.
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  #1856  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:55 AM
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True, but he is the most obvious one to escort her as he alone is unmarried.

I am going to repeat myself here by pointing out that Andrew lives in the UK and if someone there is convicted on charges concerning paedophilia on the level of the charges against Epstein in Florida over a decade ago, they go to prison for life NOT thirteen months.

They would have no idea that the DA or prosecutors could be bought off (nobody will ever convince me that a great deal of money didn't changed hands somewhere). On a case that big and that depraved the idea an unknown "someone" could literally take down the system is beyond the realm of fantasy.

That being the case, many of his bona fide friends would have commiserated with him. He had no trouble hosting a very large number of guests at his celebratory dinner in NY.

Epstein' s death has left everybody in shock, just as the revelations regarding what happened in his earlier charges in Florida have done. I personally find it beyond belief, fantastical no less.

All that is left is to wait and see what the investigations unearth.
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  #1857  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:09 AM
Majesty
 
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What makes matters more difficult is we live in the age of ‘the woman is always to be believed’ and the courts have to go by evidence. I have no idea if the women making these claims against Andrew are telling the truth but his statement on the matter appears pretty confident.
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  #1858  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:33 AM
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You were expecting him to admit openly to groping a minor?
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  #1859  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:38 AM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
The black book has been opened . There are 16 numbers for Andrew with palace landlines and 18 for Fergie.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Branson.html

Why do you need that many phone numbers? As for the people in the book they are probably talking to their lawyers and crisis management teams right now.
Directly from the article posted above--

"The book is now in the hands of the FBI - but there is no suggestion that the people named were involved with Epstein's crimes and many will never have met him."
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  #1860  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:38 AM
Majesty
 
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Never met Epstein? Well, that's not so for either Andrew or Sarah is it? They met him several times, holidayed on his island, used his private plane, knew Ghislaine Maxwell, his chief assistant, and borrowed money from him, in Sarah's case.
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