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  #3661  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:04 AM
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I don't understand this self righteous sniping that Andrew is a felon, a criminal hiding behind his title. There are far greater people than he who were involved with Epstein such as President Trump or MBS, and yet allegation are being made about Andrew by people who seem to be ignorant of the rule of law . . . namely he has not been the subject of a subpoena, he has not been charged with a crime and there is no warrant for his arrest. The Foreign Office is not in receipt of any requests for Prince Andrew to be formally interviewed or even extradited for some heinous crime. The Metropolitan Police have said the same

No I don't think Prince Andrew should be treated differently because he is Royalty. I believe he should be given the same rights and privilege as any other UK citizen.
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  #3662  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I don't understand this self righteous sniping that Andrew is a felon, a criminal hiding behind his title. There are far greater people than he who were involved with Epstein such as President Trump or MBS, and yet allegation are being made about Andrew by people who seem to be ignorant of the rule of law . . . namely he has not been the subject of a subpoena, he has not been charged with a crime and there is no warrant for his arrest. The Foreign Office is not in receipt of any requests for Prince Andrew to be formally interviewed or even extradited for some heinous crime. The Metropolitan Police have said the same

No I don't think Prince Andrew should be treated differently because he is Royalty. I believe he should be given the same rights and privilege as any other UK citizen.
this is a Royal forum, and Andrew has been associated with a criminal who procured girls.. and he knew that he was doing it. HIs behaviour was totally wrong as a human beign and as a royal.
He's a royal and as such is bound to be the subject of discussion because of his behaviour. Other powerful people have associated with Epstein as well, but the fact that they too may be or need to talk to the police does not mean that Andrew should be exempt...
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  #3663  
Old 02-02-2020, 06:25 AM
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I don't think this is going to help Andrew in the court of public opinion

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince...ck-girl-report

The press is going to dredge up anything to keep this alive and stick it to Andrew and the BRF.
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  #3664  
Old 02-02-2020, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I don't think this is going to help Andrew in the court of public opinion

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince...ck-girl-report

The press is going to dredge up anything to keep this alive and stick it to Andrew and the BRF.
In this case, I hope the press does.
Can anyone British explain if or why, if not the british police starts investigations because of Giuffre's accusation.
As far as I know in any democracy who is a constitutional state (google translate) aswell , the police was asked by the public prosecuter to start investigation if such a crime is shown.
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  #3665  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
In this case, I hope the press does.
Can anyone British explain if or why, if not the british police starts investigations because of Giuffre's accusation.
As far as I know in any democracy who is a constitutional state (google translate) aswell , the police was asked by the public prosecuter to start investigation if such a crime is shown.
What crime? As I recall VIrginia Guiffre claims that she had sex with Andrew in London, at the age of 17. If that's the case, she was of age and it was consensual. So what crime?
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  #3666  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
Osipi, I thought you had seen the interview and recognised the truth behind his words.
Anybody ( and I do) who can read bodylanguage could very very easily see whats going on.
I did see the interview and do agree that Andrew was hedging and dodging and knows far more than he was telling about *his* involvement with Ms. Giuffre and his time spent with Epstein and Maxwell. Ranks right up there with Bill Clinton stating "I did not have sex with that woman" (Lewinsky).

However, this federal investigation that they're hoping that Andrew will help them out with is *solely* focusing on the sex trafficking of underage girls on the federal and perhaps the international level. There is no accusation or allegation or even a whisper that Andrew was in any way involved in the mechanics and the planning and plotting and aiding and abetting of sex trafficking. In this matter, Andrew is actually a very small fish in a very big pond. Andrew was more or less a "client" that may have used one of Epstein's girls a few times. He didn't traffic them

As stated before, if Andrew was to be taken to court and prosecuted for anything, it would be the allegations against him by Ms. Giuffre and that would be a matter for civil court. The federal investigation isn't involved in finding the "clients". They're focusing on those that aided and abetted Epstein in trafficking underage women. The girl's "handlers". They're *not* focusing on who slept with whom.
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  #3667  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
What crime? As I recall VIrginia Guiffre claims that she had sex with Andrew in London, at the age of 17. If that's the case, she was of age and it was consensual. So what crime?
This would also prevent Andrew from being extradited to the US to stand trial should Ms. Giuffre file a lawsuit against Andrew in civil court. In order to be extradited, the crime that Andrew is accused of would have to be a valid crime in both the UK and the US and carry a prison sentence of at least one year.

The Met Police have stated that Ms. Giuffre was of age to consent to sex with Andrew (if it happened) in London. Therefore, not a crime in the UK.

We have to remember too that the accusations against Andrew by Ms. Giuffre and the federal investigation that is ongoing into Epstein and his associates in regards to the crime of sex trafficking are two totally different issues.
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  #3668  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
What crime? As I recall VIrginia Guiffre claims that she had sex with Andrew in London, at the age of 17. If that's the case, she was of age and it was consensual. So what crime?
I think the alleged crime was that she had been trafficked for sex & coerced.
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  #3669  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:44 AM
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I think the alleged crime was that she had been trafficked for sex & coerced.
That *is* a crime but they won't be looking to prosecute Andrew for that. Its her "handlers" that they're after with Ghislaine Maxwell being a prime suspect in it. The incident where Ms. Giuffre was coerced to have sex with Andrew took place in her London home.
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  #3670  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
That *is* a crime but they won't be looking to prosecute Andrew for that. Its her "handlers" that they're after with Ghislaine Maxwell being a prime suspect in it. The incident where Ms. Giuffre was coerced to have sex with Andrew took place in her London home.
Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Andrew committed a crime (unless he knew she'd been trafficked & coerced). One reason for not pursuing a crime is lack of evidence so perhaps the Met felt they wouldn't be able to gather enough to proceed.
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  #3671  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
What crime? As I recall VIrginia Guiffre claims that she had sex with Andrew in London, at the age of 17. If that's the case, she was of age and it was consensual. So what crime?
Did she say it was consensual? Thanks.
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  #3672  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
Did she say it was consensual? Thanks.
I don't know. I assumed it was. I don't think she said "rape"...
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  #3673  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:25 AM
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I don't know. I assumed it was. I don't think she said "rape"...
I did not read the word" rape" either , but that because she was trafficked and told to have sex with him, it was surely not consensual. So this is why I asked here if somebody can explain why british police does not investigate.
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  #3674  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
I did not read the word" rape" either , but that because she was trafficked and told to have sex with him, it was surely not consensual. So this is why I asked here if somebody can explain why british police does not investigate.
I assume that if there was coercion it was not Andrew.. but Maxwell who was involved with that..
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  #3675  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen.CH View Post
I did not read the word" rape" either , but that because she was trafficked and told to have sex with him, it was surely not consensual. So this is why I asked here if somebody can explain why british police does not investigate.
If you're pointing to *Andrew* being investigated by the Met Police because Ms. Giuffre was trafficked and coerced to have sex with *Andrew*, that's not how it works. Andrew, himself, didn't force her. As far as Andrew is concerned, she came to him willingly (if it *did* happen) and the sex between Andrew and Ms. Giuffre (if it *did* happen), was consensual and that is how it was deemed by the Met Police in relation to *Andrew*.

Investigating the case of Epstein and his associates for sex trafficking crimes in the UK may still be reopened according to some sources that are not reliable at all. It will not be an investigation into Andrew having sex with a 17 year old woman of legal age to consent to sex in the UK.
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  #3676  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:41 AM
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But the problem is that it would be very difficult after all this time to know exactly what happened.
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  #3677  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
But the problem is that it would be very difficult after all this time to know exactly what happened.
Three people know exactly what happened: Virginia, Maxwell & Andrew. Perhaps the problem now is no more difficult than it would have been in the past if you have some of the people involved telling lies.
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  #3678  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If you're pointing to *Andrew* being investigated by the Met Police because Ms. Giuffre was trafficked and coerced to have sex with *Andrew*, that's not how it works. Andrew, himself, didn't force her. As far as Andrew is concerned, she came to him willingly (if it *did* happen) and the sex between Andrew and Ms. Giuffre (if it *did* happen), was consensual and that is how it was deemed by the Met Police in relation to *Andrew*.

Investigating the case of Epstein and his associates for sex trafficking crimes in the UK may still be reopened according to some sources that are not reliable at all. It will not be an investigation into Andrew having sex with a 17 year old woman of legal age to consent to sex in the UK.
Interesting interpretation. "Willingly", if the whole thing wasn't that serious for the victims one could laugh. But surely this is Andrew's and other men's interpretation, too and if course Andrew did not know....
Sorry, but 🤮
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  #3679  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:24 AM
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You have to realize too that at this time, there is only the federal investigation going on with the FBI and this is what Andrew is being asked to cooperate with. It has absolutely *nothing* to do with whether Andrew had sex with anyone at any place. It is the investigation that is trying to find and prosecute those that were actually involved in trafficking these girls and forcing them to do as told.

There is nothing whatsoever that points to Andrew having committed any kind of a crime anywhere. At this time, Andrew is *not* required to be interviewed or be questioned under oath into what he knows about those that did participate in the sex trafficking (Maxwell and cohorts).

There is no interest at this time in pursuing whether or not Andrew had sex with that woman or if he even knew she was being coerced or not. The focus is on the trafficking of underage girls. Not who was involved with the underage girls.

Victims may file suits against Epstein's estate or the people that have abused them but those will not be handled by federal investigators at all.
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  #3680  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I don't understand this self righteous sniping that Andrew is a felon, a criminal hiding behind his title. There are far greater people than he who were involved with Epstein such as President Trump or MBS, and yet allegation are being made about Andrew by people who seem to be ignorant of the rule of law . . . namely he has not been the subject of a subpoena, he has not been charged with a crime and there is no warrant for his arrest. The Foreign Office is not in receipt of any requests for Prince Andrew to be formally interviewed or even extradited for some heinous crime. The Metropolitan Police have said the same

No I don't think Prince Andrew should be treated differently because he is Royalty. I believe he should be given the same rights and privilege as any other UK citizen.



Well he hasn't been charged with anything - but the girl is actually accusing Andrew of having sex with her while she was being trafficked. No one accused Trump or MBS (or Bill Clinton or even Bill Gates) of doing anything but being associated with Epstein.



All Andrew can do now is lie low. He should not be appearing on balconies with the queen.
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