The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #3561  
Old 12-28-2019, 11:53 AM
texankitcat's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by EssexRoyal View Post
I am no fan of the Duke of York. I have found him to be quite arrogant. But I have to admit to being puzzled over the vitriolic comments made about him and the disassociation organisations are making from him without the Duke actually being charged, arrested, taken to trial or formally being found guilty. At the moment the horrible accusations are allegations, but in this modern world it seems an allegation is enough to ruin oneís reputation.
Americans want the Duke to stand trial - fair enough but at least charge him and let the courts do their work, donít leave it to the media to be judge and jury.
And if the Americans are so keen to have justice done then allow the extradition of one of their diplomatís wife to the UK to stand trial for the murder of the teenager she ran over - she has admitted killing him but ran away and refuses to stand trial in the UK. Trump has refused to wave her diplomatic immunity even though he acknowledges she killed a teenage boy.
What is the difference? Someone who has not been charged is found guilty by the American media but someone who admits killing someone is given a safe haven. There does seem to be some double standards occurring here. I suspect many Americans know nothing of the death of the English teenager by one of their countrymen, but know a lot about the allegations concerning the Duke of York.
The Duke deserves a fair trial if the allegations are true, not a trial by gossip, innuendo and media speculation.
Iím not sure why you are pointing a finger at Americans and the American media when itís the British media that are all over of the Andrew/Epstein scandals, as they should be since it involves a member of the British Royal Family which represents the British Government/People. The American media has other fish to fry. As others have already pointed out, most Americans could care less about Andrew and few younger than 50 would even know who he is. Only those that pay attention to the happenings of the Royal family and what is reported by the British media would even know what a huge story this has been.

We all know Andrew will never be charged with anything whether he is guilty or not simply because of who he is. Victims be damned. As with every scandal he has brought upon the Royal Family they prefer that it gets swept under a priceless Persian rug and everyone goes about their business waiting for the media to direct their attention elsewhere. Not this time.

Andrew destroyed his own life with his decisions and actions. HE decided to do that interview which clearly showed the world what an arrogant, entitled, unsympathetic liar he is. The public reaction and the media frenzy afterwards is all on him. I personally applaud the British media for keeping the Epstein scandal and His other shady dealings in focus and not allowing it to be swept aside.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3562  
Old 12-28-2019, 01:59 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I agree. And even with Kate/William and Meghan/Harry, most Americans don't know much, and care even less.

Social media and the tabloid press skew our perceptions in the TRF bubble. All the drama attached to the British royals over the last year or so isn't even a blip on most Americans' radar.


That sums it up. Royalty is not something Americans really focus on. Even the better known ones- K/W and H/M. We have our own issues. Andrew certainly isnít one of them. Itís not a conversation topic, thatís for sure. No one I know is talking about this.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3563  
Old 12-28-2019, 02:08 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That sums it up. Royalty is not something Americans really focus on. Even the better known ones- K/W and H/M. We have our own issues. Andrew certainly isnít one of them. Itís not a conversation topic, thatís for sure. No one I know is talking about this.
Im surprised there isn't some interest, since ANdrew's downfall has come about because of his association with Epstein..who is American and who "knew everyone who was important" in American life, in recent years.
Reply With Quote
  #3564  
Old 12-28-2019, 02:22 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im surprised there isn't some interest, since ANdrew's downfall has come about because of his association with Epstein..who is American and who "knew everyone who was important" in American life, in recent years.


But Epstein himself is dead now. The story died largely with him- and probably will until/unless someone is arrested in connection with this. For sure- Americans arenít clamoring for Andrewís arrest. I forget who said we are, but hardly. Most people couldnít tell you who he is. Much less wanting his arrest. Want to talk about a subject Americans are passionate about one way or another: Trump. Andrew- no.

Andrewís downfall had more to do with his choice to do that hideously ill advised interview imo than the actual association with Epstein. Heíd probably have been okay if heíd shut up.
Reply With Quote
  #3565  
Old 12-28-2019, 02:27 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 14,591
The only reason I'm familiar with who Jeffrey Epstein was and his association with Andrew is because of my interest in the BRF and being a member here. Even Epstein's first arrest didn't register with me and only became of interest to me when Andrew's involvement with Epstein was made public knowledge here at TRF. Most Americans saw a blip on the news probably with the first arrest and then paid it no mind until Epstein was arrested the second time and then died by suicide or homicide (take your pick) a short while afterwards.

Most people still probably aren't aware of the "high profile American" names associated with the perverted lifestyle of Epstein and his cronies as those stories are not making headlines too much here in the States. Most of what I know of them come from following this thread here.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #3566  
Old 12-28-2019, 03:26 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,909
what about Trump? I gather he was one of the people that Epsstein hung around with.. or did he bail quickly enough to avoid too much scandal? (Not to mention Clinton_). I thought that Epstein was well known because he was someone who had managed to develop relationships with the rich and famous...
Reply With Quote
  #3567  
Old 12-28-2019, 03:41 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 14,591
Nope. Even Trump's connections to Epstein rarely makes the news here which actually is a bit surprising to me too. Same with Bill Clinton. No one knew *anything* about people and their association with Epstein until after his second arrest last summer. Epstein, himself, wasn't well known to the public at all along with many of the people he associated with (like the guy that owned the Victoria's Secret chain).

So, in this respect, Andrew's involvement with Epstein is really seen as small potatoes here in the States. If Epstein, himself wasn't well known, neither were the people involved with him except for their own "newsworthy" stories in politics or finances or by being high profile people on their own.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #3568  
Old 12-28-2019, 04:39 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 1,232
The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy (2010-2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Nope. Even Trump's connections to Epstein rarely makes the news here which actually is a bit surprising to me too. Same with Bill Clinton. No one knew *anything* about people and their association with Epstein until after his second arrest last summer. Epstein, himself, wasn't well known to the public at all along with many of the people he associated with (like the guy that owned the Victoria's Secret chain).



So, in this respect, Andrew's involvement with Epstein is really seen as small potatoes here in the States. If Epstein, himself wasn't well known, neither were the people involved with him except for their own "newsworthy" stories in politics or finances or by being high profile people on their own.

Totally agree with that assessment.


Regarding Trump, Clinton, etc not making news here either re Epstein, part of it I think comes down to the fact they’re only known to have associated with him, which defines a very long list of wealthy, powerful people. But no one (that I’m aware of) has suggested their involvement with him goes beyond socializing with him. Andrew is at a disadvantage there.

You’re right: I don’t think anyone knew who Epstein was until last summer. He wasn’t known to the public. This isn’t like say the downfall of Bill Cosby. People didn’t know who he was. Epstein surrounded himself with well known, powerful, rich people, but he wasn’t well known himself.

So, yes, Andrew is very small potatoes here.
Reply With Quote
  #3569  
Old 12-28-2019, 04:57 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
what about Trump? I gather he was one of the people that Epsstein hung around with.. or did he bail quickly enough to avoid too much scandal? (Not to mention Clinton_). I thought that Epstein was well known because he was someone who had managed to develop relationships with the rich and famous...
Why is Trump being brought into the topic of Epstein/Andrew scandal? He has nothing to do with this particular discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #3570  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:02 PM
HereditaryPrincess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,208
Here in Britain the scandal has gained some interest, also in those who didn't really know Andrew or follow the BRF previously. It came up as one of the discussions at my family Christmas meal, and has also been something I've joined in with discussions in at work and elsewhere. Andrew's interview with Emily Maitlis was also no.1 trending here on Twitter at the time it was aired. But, it's a big scandal that one of "our" royals is most likely involved with, so I guess it's only natural that it's news here.
__________________
"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

*
"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
Reply With Quote
  #3571  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:17 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 9,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think there is as much and more interest in the US on Royal affairs as there is in Brtiain….
As someone who lives in California and has family and close friends on both coasts I can assure you that there is not.

It's the ONLY reason that i come online to indulge what my siblings feel is an eccentric, "weirdo" desire to gossip about European aristocrats and royals.

No one in my real life can be bothered.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #3572  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:22 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Why is Trump being brought into the topic of Epstein/Andrew scandal? He has nothing to do with this particular discussion.
The only reason he was mentioned was to demonstrate someone who was connected to Epstein that Americans would have any interest in knowing the particulars of. In other words, no one here cares that Prince Andrew palled around with him. They do, however, care that high-profile people in our government did. That's all. It wasn't an attempt to shift the conversation into politics or anything else like that.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever......"
Reply With Quote
  #3573  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:57 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,003
Now, about Andrew and Epstein. He is certainly keeping a low profile which is good. One can hope that he has received the message loud and clear that keeping his head down and mouth shut will benefit him far more than seeking to defend and excuse himself. Now if only his ex-wife would follow suit.
Reply With Quote
  #3574  
Old 12-28-2019, 06:32 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 1,603
Here is the blurb from the Sun

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...n-epstein/amp/

I doubt the Feds have no plans to question Andrew. Going after Ghislaine Maxwell and others is possibly a strategy to start building the case: find out what they know, present anything they may solidly have on them and see if they flip (give evidence) on Andrew. Loyalty definitely comes to the test if one faces possible prosecution and imprisonment themselves if they protect another. American interest will come back if there is enough strong and damaging testimony for Andrew to come and explain. The BRF has taken a bit hit with Andrew's mess; hiding behind royal rank and any diplomatic immunity will make it worse.
Reply With Quote
  #3575  
Old 12-28-2019, 06:47 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 14,591
What the Sun doesn't tell you is that if Andrew is questioned or interviewed by the FBI, at any time, it will be because Andrew has voluntarily offered to be questioned and interviewed in this matter.

There's no worry about diplomatic immunity with this at all. Its a fact that Andrew cannot and will not be extradited or forced to succumb to FBI questioning or interviewing because in order to do so, Andrew would have to be accused of a crime that is recognized as a crime in both the US and the UK.

As far as I'm aware, the ongoing investigation is solely focusing on those people that have aided and abetted Epstein in illegal sex trafficking. Nowhere, ever, has it ever even been mentioned that Andrew was involved in these kind of activities in any way, shape or form. All allegations against Andrew stem from the accusations of having sex with an underage minor. If those accusations and allegations are taken to court at any time, it would be Ms. Giuffre filing a case in civil court. Not the FBI.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #3576  
Old 12-28-2019, 07:47 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Here is the blurb from the Sun

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...n-epstein/amp/

I doubt the Feds have no plans to question Andrew. Going after Ghislaine Maxwell and others is possibly a strategy to start building the case: find out what they know, present anything they may solidly have on them and see if they flip (give evidence) on Andrew. Loyalty definitely comes to the test if one faces possible prosecution and imprisonment themselves if they protect another. American interest will come back if there is enough strong and damaging testimony for Andrew to come and explain. The BRF has taken a bit hit with Andrew's mess; hiding behind royal rank and any diplomatic immunity will make it worse.
I really, really doubt that the FBI has any interest in prosecuting Prince Andrew. His part in the whole Epstein mess is a drop in the bucket. The FBI’s interest in Andrew would be what he saw, rather than what he did.
Reply With Quote
  #3577  
Old 12-28-2019, 08:08 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 5,635
Well, the New York Times just listed their most read stories of this year and four stories on Epstein were in the top 73. In fact he was number 4 on the most read about him. New Yorkers are very interested in Epstein, he was a New Yorker.
As far as Prince Andrew, I agree that most people don’t know or care about him. Many don’t know the queen has four children at all, especially Edward.
Reply With Quote
  #3578  
Old 12-28-2019, 08:33 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
What the Sun doesn't tell you is that if Andrew is questioned or interviewed by the FBI, at any time, it will be because Andrew has voluntarily offered to be questioned and interviewed in this matter.

There's no worry about diplomatic immunity with this at all. Its a fact that Andrew cannot and will not be extradited or forced to succumb to FBI questioning or interviewing because in order to do so, Andrew would have to be accused of a crime that is recognized as a crime in both the US and the UK.

As far as I'm aware, the ongoing investigation is solely focusing on those people that have aided and abetted Epstein in illegal sex trafficking. Nowhere, ever, has it ever even been mentioned that Andrew was involved in these kind of activities in any way, shape or form. All allegations against Andrew stem from the accusations of having sex with an underage minor. If those accusations and allegations are taken to court at any time, it would be Ms. Giuffre filing a case in civil court. Not the FBI.
Exactly right. As much as I dislike him and feel he was completely aware of the ages of the girls and knew what Epstein and Maxwell were doing with them, I know he will never see a US court or even volunteer to be questioned. He knows that Maxwell has more on him than he could ever have on her and it would be foolish to volunteer anything since he has already made a huge mess of his life from thinking he was by any means a convincing liar. I donít see any lawyer advising him to cooperate voluntarily taking that into consideration.
Reply With Quote
  #3579  
Old 12-29-2019, 02:56 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,187
Strangely enough, in this case, I believe if he was asked to be interviewed he would oblige. Andrew may be an entitled jerk at times but he is not a paedophile and has already stated that should the FBI come calling or the Met as their agents, he will oblige for good or ill.

His entire life as he knew it has been destroyed by gossip and association, there is nothing much more he can lose as for all his stupidity no one has accused him of an actual crime. If it takes an interview with the authorities to clarify or assist, he will do it. For all his arrogance, okay but nobody ever said he was a coward and his actions confirm it.

Both he and his mother and elder brother are aware that this has been a PR disaster and, should he refuse to assist the authorities it would leak and be on the front page of every newspaper, serious and tabloid. It is therefore not an option and he said as much in that infamous interview.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #3580  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:29 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 2,463
The whole Epstein/Andrew-connection was unfortunate and I'm sure his family knows that there surely are a lot of other stories that might never come out about how Andrew used his connections - but that's how you worked as part of a Royal Court for centuries. Introducing people to people for money is the financial basis of Court life (and of today's political life) and Andrew used that to become financially independent from his family. Not all people approve of that but there's nothing wrong in becoming a high ranked lobbyist. I don't think he was ever interested in too young girls (as a father of two daughters he could have made contacts much more easily than to trust some guy like Epstein for introductions) but he enjoys the high life and young ladies giving massages (and more) did not feel too wrong I guess.

His only "real fault" was that his way to live and finance his life has become public knowledge and now he has to stay under the radar at least till his daughter is married - maybe till his mother and father died.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (4 members and 3 guests)
asm, lilacmermaid, Lilyflo, Royal_Royal
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
althorp aristocracy armenia bangladesh belgian royal belgian royal family chittagong crown crown prince hussein's future wife cyprus danish royalty denmark diana princess of wales duchess of cambridge duchess of sussex dutch royal family dutch royals french revolution future germany haakon vii hill history house of bernadotte israel jumma kiko king philippe king salman lithuania lithuanian palaces mailing meghan markle memoir monaco christening monarchist monarchy monogram mountbatten naples netflix nobel prize norway history official visit pakistan potential areas prince charles prince daniel princely family of monaco princess benedikte princess margaret pronunciation queen maud queen paola rania of jordan rown royal children russian imperial family saudi arabia south korea state visit state visit to denmark sweden thailand tracts united kingdom unsubscribe valois visit from sweden working royals; full-time royals; part-time royals;


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:11 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×