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  #3481  
Old 12-09-2019, 01:16 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
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If Andrew goes to church on Christmas he should go around the back entrance to avoid the BRF to be put on blast (jeered) by the crowd. And some people will not care if the children are present for the walk. This could turn into the Sandringham Walk of Shame.
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  #3482  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:15 PM
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I think Andrew is by no means as guilty or bad as people are making out. He was friends with someone he shouldn't have been and showed bad judgement (which I base on the fact he would even go and see Epstein after his conviction to explain why they couldn't be friends). Do I think Andrew knew more than he let on? Yes probably, I think he knew Epstein attracted young women to him and liked the lifestyle this envoked. I think he knew Epstein was oddly open about sex. Did Andrew know these ladies were underage and possibly being coerced into being there? More than likely no.
Was Andrew's interview awful? Absolutely! Is this a crime in itself? No

I think Andrew has paid the right price so far for the things we know he has done wrong. I am more than happy to change my view on that if and when new evidence is presented. And like many people I can honestly say I'd never want him back in the RF in any way representing my country.

Should Andrew be allowed to visit Church with his family on Christmas Day? Of course he should. But likewise people are entitled to express their feelings about him being there in a non violent form. I do think though that for the RF as a whole this will be bad as it drags them into the furore around Andrew just because they will turn up and visit their grandmother. I think the issue is that, yes its a family day out but it is also, no matter what the Household say, a public event that is seen by many as a public event (not a fair assumption given all the publicly funded police there IMO) so they feel they have a say over Andrew appearing.

I think in all of this I would hate to see the RF and the Queen being booed and cheered simply because Andrew is there. What annoys me is I don't see why Andrew can't still visit Sandringham and be with his family at Christmas, even visiting the early morning more private service, but miss the main public service, making everyone happy. It is, IMO, another PR problem brought about from the royals not thinking Andrew has done anything wrong at all.
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  #3483  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:54 PM
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The issue with Andrew is that all his chickens are coming home to roost, and the abysmal stupidity he exhibited in the interview was the tipping point. He has decades of documented arrogance, rudeness, shady practices, abuse of his position, taking advantage of his position as the Queen's son, and as the trade envoy to milk the system, and so on, and the interview was just the straw that broke the camel's back. His loss of position now would most likely not have happened if the Queen, Philip and more recently Charles had reined him in much much earlier in his inglorious career. He is not being "punished," if that is the correct word, solely for the interview, or even his association with Epstein, he is being judged and removed from representing the royal family for a culmination of years of gross, unethical, spoiled, and unwise behavior that has finally, finally risen to the level that the Queen had to pay attention because it is seriously impacting the status of the royal family. There's plenty to think about, but some of the most unflattering reflections are not just about Andrew and Epstein, it's about the long-term wisdom of leaving the separate members of the working BRF to go their own way without more central oversight.
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  #3484  
Old 12-09-2019, 03:44 PM
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The church can be approached discreetly from the back. Maybe that would be best option for the duke in the circumstances.
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  #3485  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
The issue with Andrew is that all his chickens are coming home to roost, and the abysmal stupidity he exhibited in the interview was the tipping point. He has decades of documented arrogance, rudeness, shady practices, abuse of his position, taking advantage of his position as the Queen's son, and as the trade envoy to milk the system, and so on, and the interview was just the straw that broke the camel's back. His loss of position now would most likely not have happened if the Queen, Philip and more recently Charles had reined him in much much earlier in his inglorious career. He is not being "punished," if that is the correct word, solely for the interview, or even his association with Epstein, he is being judged and removed from representing the royal family for a culmination of years of gross, unethical, spoiled, and unwise behavior that has finally, finally risen to the level that the Queen had to pay attention because it is seriously impacting the status of the royal family. There's plenty to think about, but some of the most unflattering reflections are not just about Andrew and Epstein, it's about the long-term wisdom of leaving the separate members of the working BRF to go their own way without more central oversight.
These are exactly the points that have brought this debacle to where we are today. I refuse to consider from any point of view that Andrew is a victim here, because quite simply....he is not. He has brought all of this on himself.
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  #3486  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
These are exactly the points that have brought this debacle to where we are today. I refuse to consider from any point of view that Andrew is a victim here, because quite simply....he is not. He has brought all of this on himself.
of course he did. He has done so many stupid things and wrong things and that interview was a bridge too far. He was so arrogant unpleasant and selfish that he could not even manage an insincere apology for his own folly in staying friends iwht Esptein nor show any sympathy to the victims. Cleearly he had to be TOLD to do that afterwards. The interview showed the "inner Andrew" and it was not a pretty sight...
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  #3487  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:37 PM
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There is one thing that has Always amazed me.
It was well known he had paid the enormous debts of Fergie. And nobody questionned what he had asked in return ? You Don't give these enormous sums without hope of a return, no ?????
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  #3488  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lucien View Post
He has to find a new role??Except for a toilet role no,I hope not!
Governor general of the Falkland Islands would be a good job for the prince Andrew: there are only penguins there to misbehave with
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  #3489  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rominet09 View Post
There is one thing that has Always amazed me.
It was well known he had paid the enormous debts of Fergie. And nobody questionned what he had asked in return ? You Don't give these enormous sums without hope of a return, no ?????
Yes that's the $64,000 question isn't it? And it's interesting. What has Fergie's role been in this saga? She was close enough to Epstein to travel to his island on his plane, borrow money from him. Of course we don't know exactly how much he 'lent' her but it was at least $14,000 by some reports.

Fergie has a wide circle of friends and acquaintances especially in Europe and the US. Were conditions attached to that loan, like---introductions to various people? Sort of a version of her 'cash for access' game?
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  #3490  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:19 PM
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Y'know, with trying to fit all the pieces of the York puzzle together, its occurred to me that something else, although way far out there, would be that Andrew and Sarah have a divorce of convenience. It was a way out of a mess back then but they've remained so close ever since.

Anyone recall the exact words Andrew used in the interview? I looked it up and he said, "I was with the children and I'd taken Beatrice to a Pizza Express in Woking for a party at I suppose sort of 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon. And then because the duchess was away," Odd choice of words to me. Could have said "Sarah" or "my ex wife" but he didn't.

Putting this whole thing together is more fun than finding Waldo... err Ghislaine Maxwell.
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  #3491  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:44 AM
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I read online they people want to strip andrew of the HRH,like princess diana.Andrew was a born royal so it will be harder or impossible to strip him.
With all the attacks i wondwr how Andrew is holding up,is he in denial,in a depression,suicidal?
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  #3492  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:48 AM
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I think he is "holding up" just fine. He is incredibly incapable of realsign when he is in the wrong...
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  #3493  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LaDia View Post
I read online they people want to strip andrew of the HRH,like princess diana.Andrew was a born royal so it will be harder or impossible to strip him.
With all the attacks i wondwr how Andrew is holding up,is he in denial,in a depression,suicidal?
Even with the abdication of King Edward VIII, as the Duke of Windsor, David still held his HRH and was still a prince of the UK. I don't see Andrew losing his HRH or his peerage at all.

Andrew will continue on in life and most likely enjoy his retirement riding off into the sunset. He may find he can no longer afford a lot of the "perks" he's been used to but I can't see it affecting his overall outlook on life. For people that have the character traits Andrew exhibits, denial is that big, long river in Africa.
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  #3494  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by LaDia View Post
I read online they people want to strip andrew of the HRH,like princess diana.Andrew was a born royal so it will be harder or impossible to strip him.
With all the attacks i wondwr how Andrew is holding up,is he in denial,in a depression,suicidal?
There are a lot of people commenting online who don't actually know much about how the royal family or royalty in general operates. There is zero chance of Andrew losing his HRH unless something much more substantive and provable comes out, and he is convicted of it.

So far as Andrew having to live in reduced circumstances goes, I wouldn't care to lay money on that. In fact, without a public role, and without the scrutiny that goes along with a public role, my suspicion is that it will be even easier for him to hobnob with the rich and famous, accept "favors" and so on. Time will tell, but I don't see him being reduced to penury any time soon.
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  #3495  
Old 12-10-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
If Andrew goes to church on Christmas he should go around the back entrance to avoid the BRF to be put on blast (jeered) by the crowd. And some people will not care if the children are present for the walk. This could turn into the Sandringham Walk of Shame.
Yeah sure ...
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  #3496  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:17 PM
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Let's face it. No matter what happens on Christmas morning going to church, whether Andrew walks with the family, rides in the car with his mother, sneaks into the church through the bathroom window or parachutes and lands directly at the entrance, its going to be made a big deal out of. Even if Andrew isn't there at all.

Now that Andrew's dropped out of sight, everyone and their great uncle's obese pet pig wants to see what Andrew is up to. Go figure.
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  #3497  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Let's face it. No matter what happens on Christmas morning going to church, whether Andrew walks with the family, rides in the car with his mother, sneaks into the church through the bathroom window or parachutes and lands directly at the entrance, its going to be made a big deal out of. Even if Andrew isn't there at all.

:

True. It’ll be a story no matter what he does.
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  #3498  
Old 12-10-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Let's face it. No matter what happens on Christmas morning going to church, whether Andrew walks with the family, rides in the car with his mother, sneaks into the church through the bathroom window or parachutes and lands directly at the entrance, its going to be made a big deal out of. Even if Andrew isn't there at all.

Now that Andrew's dropped out of sight, everyone and their great uncle's obese pet pig wants to see what Andrew is up to. Go figure.
I can totally picture him sneaking through the window.
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  #3499  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:42 PM
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Osipi, you paint the best pictures. Imagine the noise from a helicopter hovering over the church, but Andrew squeezing through a bathroom window is the best. Are you an author by day and royal watcher by night?



Andrew is free to go to church with his family on Christmas morning. He has not been charged with a crime and certainly hasn't been convicted. We don't know if the F.B.I. is investigating him or even if they want to interview him.



His continued association with Epstein and Maxwell was wrong, and thanks to that horrible interview he is being punished. It may not seem like much to us, but to someone like Andrew, having organizations say they longer wished to be associated with him and his family agree with them has to sting.
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  #3500  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I can totally picture him sneaking through the window.
Andrew will walk to church because (in his view) he has done nothing wrong.
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