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  #3101  
Old 11-25-2019, 05:19 PM
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I was amazed that A and S got off so lightly when she was filmed making deals for access to him in exchange for money. Here was a man on the public purse hawking himself out to the highest bidder whilst his ex-wife dealt with the finer details. Can you imagine if the ex-wife of a government minister had been caught saying, "you take care of me and he'll take of you... you'll get your money back tenfold"? There would very likely have been criminal charges for abuse of office but those two walked away scot free. Fergie took the wrap; kept a low profile for a bit and before you knew it the Queen had her back at Balmoral; sat with her at the polo and all was forgotten. Is it any wonder they both grew bolder over time when they were never punished by anyone, including the Queen. I'm thinking too about the tawdry episode of the Beckhams having their daughter's birthday party at BP when the court had moved to Balmoral. Again A and S were the organisers of that little stunt under the suspicion that money had changed hands. There have been virtually no limits as to how low these two have been willing to stoop for cash over the years but Epstein may well have been the lowest and I hope this proves to be their undoing. It's what they absolutely deserve.
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  #3102  
Old 11-25-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Personally, i find that both Andrew and Sarah F. to be completley despicable human beings. They have been a blight and on the Royal Family for years and need to be held completely accountable for the messes and scandals they create. There seems to be no end of it with these two.

I don't for a moment believe that Andrew was not aware of what Epstein was doing with these girls and that he had no part of it. He is up to his neck with this mess and is arrogant enough to think he could just swat the issue aside and carry on with his sordid life. Can't stand this man...
I've never cared for Andrew & Sarah either. I was horrified when Andrew ended up with Royal Lodge. The thought of that couple partying in the Queen Mother's former home just didn't sit well with me. I would have loved to see Edward and Sophie living there.
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  #3103  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Is there a specific point in time when William began to dislike Andrew(if it's true he does)?

As a child he seemed very fond of him, very affectionate. I remember the sweet video of him running up to Andrew for a hug during the 1986 Andrew/Fergie wedding.
I have been wondering the same thing. Many articles today states that Prince William played key role in ousting of Prince Andrew and that he is not fond of him.
I can imagine he was involved in decision to remove him from royal duties as one of the future heirs - but I don't believe that means he is not fond of him. He probably just sided with what's the right decision for the Monarchy.
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  #3104  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I've never cared for Andrew & Sarah either. I was horrified when Andrew ended up with Royal Lodge. The thought of that couple partying in the Queen Mother's former home just didn't sit well with me. I would have loved to see Edward and Sophie living there.
I agree, giving RL to Andrew was as good as giving it to Sarah and I don't think that is something the Queen Mother would have wanted and definately not Princess Margaret who detested Sarah by the end of her life.
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  #3105  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:33 PM
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Andrew has proved rather problematic for the BRF for some time and William, starting to take a greater role in the RF and probably more aware of his own day reign has seen that for his reign and that of his father Andrew is simply a headache they don't have to put up with any longer. I doesn't mean he doesn't like his as an uncle in a family, just that he sees the weakness Andrew brings to the working Royal Family.
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  #3106  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MsLeonie View Post
I don't know about Britain but in the U.S. a trust fund set up for a minor cannot be "dipped into" by anyone without the consent of a court appointed executor. And the only reason would be to support the child, which, in the case of Bea and Eugenie would be ridiculous since their father was already supporting them. Also, I would hope the Queen Mother had enough sense to make sure Fergie was not able to get any money from that trust. I'm sure she knew exactly how awful Fergie was.

On the other hand, after the girls came of age they might have voluntarily given their mother money since that idiot always seem to be in debt and would do anything for money, even use the love of her daughters to get money from them.
This is exactly how it works in the US. All three of my children had trust funds set up for them by my mother before she passed away. It was the executors of her will that held the purse strings to those trust funds (my brother and my aunt). Until they turned 30, they could "request" funds through the executors but not touch the funds themselves until they were 30.

According to the information we do have, both Beatrice and Eugenie do not come into control of the entire trust fund until they reach 40 so that's money sitting somewhere probably drawing some really nice interest they'll gain control of as the Queen Mum passed on in 2002. That's almost 18 years collecting interest so far. They'll come into these funds. Eventually.
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  #3107  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:57 PM
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Does this mean that Prince Andrew may never wear a royal uniform again?
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  #3108  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:14 PM
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As far as I'm aware, there had been no changes made to the ranks that Andrew holds militarily. I do believe that each rank and uniform that Andrew has the right to wear has been earned. He *is* regarded as a war hero and has served his Queen and Crown brilliantly in the Falklands. That cannot ever be dismissed.
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  #3109  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:23 PM
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Andrew and Sarah did their most important jobs well. They raised children who are, by all accounts, very decent young women. There has never been one whiff of scandal about princesses Eugenie and Beatrice.

The fact that the Yorks kept their young children away from their personal chaos and left them unscathed is not something the Wales's managed.

It might be too long ago for many here to remember, but Andrew risked his life in uniform for his country. He didn't have to do so. It would have been easy for him to get out.

He insisted.

He and Sarah have made a botch out of their post divorce personal lives. But their many mistakes do not wipe out the good things. Not for me anyway.

It's why i flinch to hear these two now dismissed as loathsome, despicable wastes of human beings.
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  #3110  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Does this mean that Prince Andrew may never wear a royal uniform again?
There is no royal 'uniform'.

He does have military uniforms, which he earned in over 23 years active service in the royal navy, including service during the Falklands war. Unlike Anne and Andrew, his uniforms are not honorary appointments, he served.

I guess one could argue that he should only wear the uniform of a Commander, the rank he reached before he retired (the others were honorary promotions since). But he has not been stripped of his honorary promotions in the navy, so still has the right to wear them.
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  #3111  
Old 11-25-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Andrew and Sarah did their most important jobs well. They raised children who are, by all accounts, very decent young women. There has never been one whiff of scandal about princesses Eugenie and Beatrice.

The fact that the Yorks kept their young children away from their personal chaos and left them unscathed is not something the Wales's managed.

It might be too long ago for many here to remember, but Andrew risked his life in uniform for his country. He didn't have to do so. It would have been easy for him to get out.

He insisted.

He and Sarah have made a botch out of their post divorce personal lives. But their many mistakes do not wipe out the good things. Not for me anyway.

It's why i flinch to hear these two now dismissed as loathsome, despicable wastes of human beings.
Andrew served his country like his father, his brother and his nephews. Service to one’s country does not give a person a free pass on disgraceful actions and behavior.

Eugenie and Beatrice seem to be great girls, but I know many good people that come from not so good people. They love their parents and only want to believe the best in them. It isn’t easy to see people you love and look up to for what they really are. I truly feel for them.

You may love and admire Andrew and Sarah and see the very best in them if that is what you prefer to do. I have watched them for many years drag down the TRF with one embarrassing scandal after another and stand by my assessment of both their characters. Neither of them do anything that isn’t ultimately self serving. He out of arrogance and entitlement. Her out of indulgence, spending far beyond her means and amassing incredible debt and then doing incredibly stupid things to get her out that debt. It’s a perpetual cycle with these two and this time they both stepped in the 💩 💩 that is Epstein.
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  #3112  
Old 11-25-2019, 09:26 PM
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My mind keeps going back to the question of the Royal Protection Police or American counterparts doing their jobs.


Would it have been their responsibility to at least warn Andrew about unsavory figures and potential blackmail situations? I have been in places when BRF members and US First Family members were expected, and those protection officers accompanying them do a thorough search before the protectee even gets out of the car. Andrew's team must have seen some eyebrow-raising things that would set off warning bells, if they did their job properly and opened every door and cupboard the way I have seen their counterparts inspect premises ahead of these visits.


If a BRF member IS told of controversial or potentially illegal or scandalous circumstances involving a planned visit, and ignores it, does the protection team let BP know so they can rein in the Royal person who needs things to be explained properly?


Knowledgeable people here on the forum have pointed out that the protection police do not report or answer to Andrew. If that is true, then why did they let him go ahead with these very controversial visits to Epstein's properties? What if he WAS filmed at one of these houses in some compromising way? That is on the protective squad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Andrew has proved rather problematic for the BRF for some time and William, starting to take a greater role in the RF and probably more aware of his own day reign has seen that for his reign and that of his father Andrew is simply a headache they don't have to put up with any longer. I doesn't mean he doesn't like his as an uncle in a family, just that he sees the weakness Andrew brings to the working Royal Family.
Andrew and Sarah are loose cannons. HM doesn't like surprises, and loose cannons are full of them. I will go out on a limb and say that Charles and William do not like surprises from loose cannons.

However, the York daughters are lovely.

There seems to be a bit of an unhealthy motherly grip on them. Sarah had them both cry on camera for Oprah. That's terrible! I think Eugenie is able to shrug off that motherly grip a bit better than Beatrice, who got dragged into her father's current soap opera.

Sarah's concurrent visit to Saudi Arabia during this Andrew-Epstein interview debacle and her nut-job speech there is really the cherry on Andrew's turd sundae.
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  #3113  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
My mind keeps going back to the question of the Royal Protection Police or American counterparts doing their jobs.


Would it have been their responsibility to at least warn Andrew about unsavory figures and potential blackmail situations? I have been in places when BRF members and US First Family members were expected, and those protection officers accompanying them do a thorough search before the protectee even gets out of the car. Andrew's team must have seen some eyebrow-raising things that would set off warning bells, if they did their job properly and opened every door and cupboard the way I have seen their counterparts inspect premises ahead of these visits.


If a BRF member IS told of controversial or potentially illegal or scandalous circumstances involving a planned visit, and ignores it, does the protection team let BP know so they can rein in the Royal person who needs things to be explained properly?


Knowledgeable people here on the forum have pointed out that the protection police do not report or answer to Andrew. If that is true, then why did they let him go ahead with these very controversial visits to Epstein's properties? What if he WAS filmed at one of these houses in some compromising way? That is on the protective squad.
I think it all boils down to two things. Public and Private. Protection officers do extensive reconnaissance of anywhere a royal is going to be in their public roles to ensure the safety of those royals. When it comes to a royal's private life, there is always protection officers "on duty" but they do not interfere in a royal's private life. They would have been responsible to getting Andrew safely to and from Epstein's residences but silent and mute while he was inside.

We also know too that people that surround the royals are "vetted". It boils down to that "permanent record" that follows a person in life. Perhaps there were concerns with Epstein's "convictions" on his permanent record but as it didn't present a clear and present danger to Andrew's well being, he was free to make his own personal choices in who he was hanging out with and what he did on his own "private time".

Royal Protection Officers, I believe, wouldn't report any misgivings or observations to Buckingham Palace or any other palace or even the Queen. they would file their observations with their superiors at Met Police/Scotland Yard as records of what to look for in the future in assessing possible threats and harm to Andrew's physical well being.

In other words, they're not the moral police but rather physical bodyguards to prevent bodily harm to their clients.
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  #3114  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:51 PM
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Sarah likes to brag about what a great mother she is, but some of her actions are questionable. It’s clear that her daughters were exposed to the chaos of her dating life post marriage. IMO she’s been riding on their Royal coattails to remain in the public eye for their whole lives. I too recall the interview where she said her daughters helped her financially. Sarah used her daughters on the Oprah money grab mini series to drive ratings.
What is most offensive about both her and Andrew’s parenting is that they have been horrible role models. In what world is it being a good mother to repeatedly spend wildly beyond your means and then need bailing out by an ex husband, your daughters, or by promising to sell access to your ex for cash. Sarah has modeled how to be needy, to not take responsibility for the chaos she’s created, and to expect to be saved from her misdeeds. What kind of father takes a young adult Beatrice to a wild party and then leaves with a bevy of beauties leaving Bea to find her own way home? What kind of father maintains a friendship with a man who victimized young women - what message did that send to his daughters? And soliciting money from a convicted pedophile to pay off his ex’s debts - to me he’s telling his daughters it’s ok for the rich to do despicable things to others as long as they give me $.
IMO the Yorks have a very unhealthy family dynamic - they do not have proper boundaries - Sarah especially, going out to nightclubs with her daughters, for example, and from the sounds of it w/ Beatrice sitting in on the meetings her father had before the interview, she’s been thrust into the role of being the parent to her mother and father.
I’ve read that Beatrice and Eugenie had excellent nannies and that the Queen is very close to the Princesses, which hopefully mitigates the right royal mess their parents have made of their own lives.
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  #3115  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:51 PM
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I really have difficulties reading this thread as I am astonished how many members are forgetting that in the Uk one rule is the basis of their criminal justice law: everyone is innocent until proven guilty.But what crime did Prinz Andrew commit that was proven?
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  #3116  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:57 PM
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OK. So Scotland Yard big-shots didn't tell BP about Andrew's encounters with teens?
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  #3117  
Old 11-25-2019, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Andrew served his country like his father, his brother and his nephews. Service to one’s country does not give a person a free pass on disgraceful actions and behavior.

Eugenie and Beatrice seem to be great girls, but I know many good people that come from not so good people. They love their parents and only want to believe the best in them. It isn’t easy to see people you love and look up to for what they really are. I truly feel for them.

You may love and admire Andrew and Sarah and see the very best in them if that is what you prefer to do. I have watched them for many years drag down the TRF with one embarrassing scandal after another and stand by my assessment of both their characters. Neither of them do anything that isn’t ultimately self serving. He out of arrogance and entitlement. Her out of indulgence, spending far beyond her means and amassing incredible debt and then doing incredibly stupid things to get her out that debt. It’s a perpetual cycle with these two and this time they both stepped in the �� �� that is Epstein.
Perhaps you should actually read my comments rather than skim them.

Nowhere did i state that Andrew's military service excused his stupidity and bad judgment. I used his honorable military service and obvious decent parenting to counter the insinuation of a few posters that the guy is simply without redeemable qualities.

I stand by my comments. Neither Andrew nor Sarah are incarnations of Anti-Christ because they are stupid and greedy. It may come as a shock but bad qualities and good qualities can co exist in the same person.

It is a FACT that Andrew and Sarah brought children into the world and did right by them. It is a FACT that Andrew is a war hero.

The claims that he is an evil degenerate peddler of human flesh is a subjective opinion that has not been proven in a court of law...and has not even been put forward as a formal charge

Your statement about my loving and admiring Andrew and Sarah, is i assume misdirected from another thread and/or poster.

I never said anything like that.
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  #3118  
Old 11-25-2019, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
OK. So Scotland Yard big-shots didn't tell BP about Andrew's encounters with teens?
They wouldn't have known about it if it happened. As was recounted years ago with Harry's wild party antics in Vegas, the protection detail were *not* in the actual room with Harry but stationed close by. When Harry went to Canada and would stay with Meghan at her place, the royal protection officers were put up in a nearby hotel and not physically in Meghan's residence. Protection officers also are always stationed *outside* of a restroom should a royal have need of using one.

One thing we do know is that rooms at Highgrove had "panic buttons" in the rooms. The anecdote still is recounted that one time Charles and Diana got "busy" and her foot accidentally hit that panic button. The RPOs that then ran into the room got a eyeful they'll never be rid of.

So, Its my belief that the RPOs for Andrew wouldn't witness *anything* unless they were in the same room or even the same cabin on the "Lolita Express".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
Sarah likes to brag about what a great mother she is, but some of her actions are questionable. It’s clear that her daughters were exposed to the chaos of her dating life post marriage. IMO she’s been riding on their Royal coattails to remain in the public eye for their whole lives. I too recall the interview where she said her daughters helped her financially. Sarah used her daughters on the Oprah money grab mini series to drive ratings.
What is most offensive about both her and Andrew’s parenting is that they have been horrible role models. In what world is it being a good mother to repeatedly spend wildly beyond your means and then need bailing out by an ex husband, your daughters, or by promising to sell access to your ex for cash. Sarah has modeled how to be needy, to not take responsibility for the chaos she’s created, and to expect to be saved from her misdeeds. What kind of father takes a young adult Beatrice to a wild party and then leaves with a bevy of beauties leaving Bea to find her own way home? What kind of father maintains a friendship with a man who victimized young women - what message did that send to his daughters? And soliciting money from a convicted pedophile to pay off his ex’s debts - to me he’s telling his daughters it’s ok for the rich to do despicable things to others as long as they give me $.
IMO the Yorks have a very unhealthy family dynamic - they do not have proper boundaries - Sarah especially, going out to nightclubs with her daughters, for example, and from the sounds of it w/ Beatrice sitting in on the meetings her father had before the interview, she’s been thrust into the role of being the parent to her mother and father.
I’ve read that Beatrice and Eugenie had excellent nannies and that the Queen is very close to the Princesses, which hopefully mitigates the right royal mess their parents have made of their own lives.
Sometimes too, the bad examples of a parent teaches the child what *not* to do and how not to make the same mistakes that their parents made because they've witnessed the consequences of their parent's actions.
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  #3119  
Old 11-26-2019, 12:08 AM
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There is a new book about by a Royal diarist...named Ken something...and excerpts from his diary have been serialized in some British papers.

What this man observed on visits to Sunninghill when the York princesses were small is very interesting...sndral is correct. He observed strict Welsh nannies in complete control. One nanny insisted that they bow their heads in prayer before tea. One of the little princesses raced through her prayers and tried to dig in to the sumptuous spread before the other was finished.

According to the author, who was present, the nanny made her stop and start all over again.(the author didn't identify whether it was Bea or Eugenie).

Unlike with Diana, there was no attempt to undercut the nanny by Sarah, no jealousy and possesiveness.

In fact, sometimes it makes me wonder how much of the York success with their children is down to their good choices- or Her Majesty's
when it came to the girls and their upbringing.
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  #3120  
Old 11-26-2019, 12:18 AM
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Now The Dm is saying the Beatrice was against the BBC interview and only attended one meeting and advised him against the interview. That Beatrice and her mother's advice was ignored. This is why I can never trust the DM they continously change thier story to fit a nerattive or leave out important details to get more clicks. I dont even know why I bothered to click.


I left a comment to the DM to stop dragging his daughters into this that only Andrew is accountable for his actions. I doubt it will get published.
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