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  #3041  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:01 PM
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'Motherly Love' isn't {l imagine} something that can be turned off like a tap - do some here seriously think HMQ could/would/should shun her Son. because he made errors of judgement ?

If any do.. i'd hate to be their offspring...
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  #3042  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
'Motherly Love' isn't {l imagine} something that can be turned off like a tap - do some here seriously think HMQ could/would/should shun her Son. because he made errors of judgement ?

If any do.. i'd hate to be their offspring...
Sometimes, even, the best way for a mother to love her son is to apply "tough love" which sometimes has the parent saying "this is going to hurt me more than its going to hurt you" as the kid faces a whupping for a major offense or misdeed as a small child.

Its no different with the Queen and her second son. HM (as both Andrew's "boss" and mother) has done what was needed to be done and its signed, sealed and delivered. Loving her son means letting him face and feel the reactions to his actions that are warranted through his own choices. The Queen will never stop loving Andrew but that doesn't mean she actually has to like his actions as a person or even character traits he exhibits as a person.

Perhaps the hardest part of it all for the Queen is realizing that her son is approaching 60 years old and still doesn't know any better and keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over again without lessons learned. That, too, is totally on Andrew and no one else.

Then again, something has been pointed out to me recently which applies to Andrew's situation now. A mother never, ever gives up hope when it comes to her child and the loving bond between mother and child is eternal no matter what happens. I truly believe this to be true.
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  #3043  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The way I see it is that no matter what happens, Andrew is and always will be The Prince Andrew, Duke of York just by heredity .

The titular dignity of prince with the style of Royal Highness is not actually conferred by law in the UK , but rather by royal prerogative. My understanding then is that the Queen can strip Andrew of his princely title on her own discretion.


The Queen cannot however remove Andrew from the line of succession as the line of succession is defined by law and can only be changed by an act of Parliament. Since an act amending the law of succession would also affect the other Commonwealth realms, consent from the realms would be required under the Statute of Westminster before the act could come into force in the UK.



The Queen can't strip Andrew of his peerages either since no one who holds a peerage can be deprived of it except, again, by an act of Parliament.
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  #3044  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Sometimes, even, the best way for a mother to love her son is to apply "tough love" which sometimes has the parent saying "this is going to hurt me more than its going to hurt you" as the kid faces a whupping for a major offense or misdeed as a small child.

Its no different with the Queen and her second son. HM (as both Andrew's "boss" and mother) has done what was needed to be done and its signed, sealed and delivered. Loving her son means letting him face and feel the reactions to his actions that are warranted through his own choices. The Queen will never stop loving Andrew but that doesn't mean she actually has to like his actions as a person or even character traits he exhibits as a person.

Perhaps the hardest part of it all for the Queen is realizing that her son is approaching 60 years old and still doesn't know any better and keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over again without lessons learned. That, too, is totally on Andrew and no one else.

Then again, something has been pointed out to me recently which applies to Andrew's situation now. A mother never, ever gives up hope when it comes to her child and the loving bond between mother and child is eternal no matter what happens. I truly believe this to be true.
I couldn’t agree more. You’re last point is especially poignant. Is the Queen, would any parent, give up on their child as a lost cause? Of course not. Andrew deserves the thorough beating he’s taking, but he still has a life to live. Does anyone really think the Queen wants him to just lol about and live an sad, empty life like her uncle David did? Andrew may not be performing official royal duties, but he can still try and do some good in this world. He can’t make it up to the people he’s hurt, but he can still help others. I imagine the Queen has said something like this to her son, or will. He can show his daughters that it’s never too late to change, also.
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  #3045  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:10 PM
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If Princess Eugenie announces a baby is to be born, concentrate on her and Jack Brooksbank's happiness. Do not concentrate on the fact that Prince Andrew is her father.
Also, on Princess Beatrice's wedding day, concentrate on the bride. Do not concentrate on Andrew.
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  #3046  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
If Princess Eugenie announces a baby is to be born, concentrate on her and Jack Brooksbank's happiness. Do not concentrate on the fact that Prince Andrew is her father.
Also, on Princess Beatrice's wedding day, concentrate on the bride. Do not concentrate on Andrew.
What she said!
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  #3047  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:31 PM
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Looks like Beatrice had a hand in setting up Andrew's train wreck interview

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html

Oh.dear. The press is going to have a field day. The article says Bea should not be held accountable but...she's 31 years old and sat in on the meeting with the reporter. She may have had doubts but the final decision was hers to encourage her father to do the interview.
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  #3048  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:36 PM
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Consider the source. That's what says it all in a nutshell.
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  #3049  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:56 PM
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I think some of the blame for Andrews problems belong to his parents.
He was spoiled and allowed to let his ego run wild. It seems like no one bothered
to teach him empathy towards others.
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  #3050  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I think some of the blame for Andrews problems belong to his parents.
He was spoiled and allowed to let his ego run wild. It seems like no one bothered
to teach him empathy towards others.

As a naval officer, Andrew had servicemen under his command in several occasions. It would be interesting to hear from them about Andrew's empathic skills. As it would be interesting to hear from people who benefitted from several charities and organizations Andrew was involved in.



As I mentioned before, in his latest assignment as honorary colonel of the Grenadier Guards, Andrew has been praised by the guardsmen for taking a personal interest in them and their families, which seems to be at odds with his depiction as someone who lacks empathy. His daughters have also praised him as a loving and caring father.
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  #3051  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Looks like Beatrice had a hand in setting up Andrew's train wreck interview

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html

Oh.dear. The press is going to have a field day. The article says Bea should not be held accountable but...she's 31 years old and sat in on the meeting with the reporter. She may have had doubts but the final decision was hers to encourage her father to do the interview.
The article states that she sat in on the meetings along with Andrew's wildly incompetent but very influential secretary Amanda Thirsk. Beatrice
wavered from the beginning, and finally reluctantly agreed. Probably giving in to the influential Amanda who was always the most gung ho.

This is probably The Fail's way of painting the entire York family as deserving of the same opprobrium as Andrew. It's a despicable rag...yesterday they had a snide and spitefully hopeful article about the girls losing their "perks" (" What Will Happen to Papa's Little Princesses"?)

Today was Beatrice's turn. Soon it will be Eugenie in the hotseat with the allegation that her husband's employer Casamigos tequila provided the TV crew with refreshments after the interview.

The idea that ANYONE other than Andrew is responsible for that mess is ridiculous. Even the comments on the article are mostly pro-Beatrice!
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  #3052  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:40 PM
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I Don't specially like his daughters but I think it is unfair to drag them into this !
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  #3053  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I think some of the blame for Andrews problems belong to his parents.
He was spoiled and allowed to let his ego run wild. It seems like no one bothered
to teach him empathy towards others.
To clarify things here, empathy is the ability to feel what someone else is going through and they actually *feel* and *share* the emotions that someone feels. Sympathy is the ability to express one's dismay they themselves feel when hearing of someone else's loss or misfortunes. There are many women out there that can empathize with what the victims of Epstein are going through because they've been there themselves in some way, shape or form. Others express sympathy for the victims because of what happened to them is abhorrent and uncalled for as being inhumane and it comes from a personal point of view.

One cannot be "taught" emotions. I cannot teach my husband, who is by nature more or less a negative person, to be positive any more than I can teach him to put on makeup or choose the right body shaping undergarments. Its just not in him to want to or even crosses his mind. I'm sure that over his almost 60 years, Andrew's had more experiences than most of learning to feel towards other people but it, again, just isn't in his nature to do so at times. Its not his mother's fault or his Navy training but is actually just Andrew's nature and how he expresses himself. He can still be the most wonderful and loving daddy to his girls and, on the other hand, have the attitude that the "little people are beneath his notice". Its things like this that make people unique and Andrew is a character unto his own self and sometimes found to be lacking.

Even with the best of examples from a parent, the child may go totally the opposite way as they grow up and begin to express themselves. Parents are the teachers and the mentors but they never, ever should do the homework for the child or the child doesn't learn much from the lesson.
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  #3054  
Old 11-24-2019, 02:21 AM
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The only person that’s really at fault here is Andrew. The women in his life shouldn’t be used as scapegoats.
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  #3055  
Old 11-24-2019, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Looks like Beatrice had a hand in setting up Andrew's train wreck interview



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html



Oh.dear. The press is going to have a field day. The article says Bea should not be held accountable but...she's 31 years old and sat in on the meeting with the reporter. She may have had doubts but the final decision was hers to encourage her father to do the interview.


Why do you keep posting Daily Mail articles that literally all contain the words “insider source” and stating them as fact? This is the same newspaper that is connected to the one currently being sued by The Duchess of Sussex.

That says it all about the reliability of this information.
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  #3056  
Old 11-24-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As a naval officer, Andrew had servicemen under his command in several occasions. It would be interesting to hear from them about Andrew's empathic skills. As it would be interesting to hear from people who benefitted from several charities and organizations Andrew was involved in.



As I mentioned before, in his latest assignment as honorary colonel of the Grenadier Guards, Andrew has been praised by the guardsmen for taking a personal interest in them and their families, which seems to be at odds with his depiction as someone who lacks empathy. His daughters have also praised him as a loving and caring father.
Permit me to try an offer an explanation to the observations regarding sympathy and Empathy you and Osipi have made.

IMO Andrew is perfectly able to show empathy, sympathy and compassion to his family, friends and his "comrades in arms."
While at the same time have problems (maybe) with extending these emotions to those who do not belong to those groups.

There is nothing odd in that, in fact I dare say it's very common indeed.
The military encourage and foster a deep-rooted sense of camaraderie, and the joining of a brotherhood (that has nothing to do with gender BTW). There are of course practical reasons for that in the military.
(Of course not only in the military, but also in schools and sports clubs.)
So the veterans and the families of veterans he served with at the Falklands are his brothers in arms. And he will feel a very strong bond with them. And do what he can to help and support and offer genuine sympathy. (Ultimately such bonds are so strong that many are prepared to, even willing, to die for their comrades.)
The guards, belongs in Andrew's eyes, to the same fraternity that he does. I.e. the armed forces. So he can and will and indeed has been trained to care for his men. Example: A British officer is instilled not to start eating until he has ensured all his men are or can be fed.
That is IMO the same concern he show for the guards.

It's a basic human trait. The belonging of a group and ultimately ensuring the survival of the group. Which is why a man like Andrew might very likely walk over the top in front of his men towards the machine guns, but at the same time order the burning of a village without having any sympathy for the villagers.

It's an interesting paradox, but logic when you think of it. All that matters is your brotherhood, your tribe, your clan, your country... And that's who you feel for. Everybody else, well...
And perhaps it's a psychological coping mechanism? A survival mechanism from a time when the world was more brutal than today?

I have known men, who would cheat on their wives at the drop of a hat, but who wouldn't dream of even looking at the wife of a comrade out of respect, even love of that comrade.

I think in order to get inside the head of Andrew, these are things we should consider.

So Andrew may not show sympathy for the victims of Epstein, simply because he doesn't feel any - they are outside his "sphere of brotherhood", so to speak.
While at the same time genuinely care for and feel deep sympathy for the wife of a veteran. Because she belongs the "sphere of brotherhood."
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  #3057  
Old 11-24-2019, 07:43 AM
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As much as I love arm chair psychology - I do presume that you mean Andrew instead of Edward here.
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  #3058  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The only person that’s really at fault here is Andrew. The women in his life shouldn’t be used as scapegoats.

I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie told Andrew many times what he wanted to hear, she took money for arranging meetings with him, we only know about it because she was caught once, I don't want to know what else has been going on for many years, when it comes to moral or ethics these 2 bring out the worst in each other.
Regarding Bea & Eugenie, yes they love their parents but blind and naive support does not excuse everything. At the end of the day, they both have always benefited from the money/lavish lifestyle their parents sported so openly, so better not ask any questions where it might be coming from.
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  #3059  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:31 AM
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I did.

Fixed.

I blame my mistake on the weather.

And add, that I do not suggest that Andrew cannot feel sympathy for people outside the circles I outlined, of course he can, but that sympathy for such people simply isn't the first thing that comes to his mind.
In other words: I suggest he doesn't feel immediate sympathy (in most cases) for people he doesn't relate to.
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  #3060  
Old 11-24-2019, 09:53 AM
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The press has a juicy royal scandal that it will feast on for months or as long as the Espstein case is open with DM leading the way. It already put Meghan's name it , claiming she was appalled by the interview; and now it is claiming William is not a fan of Andrew and had a say with the queen and Charles to give Andrew the boot from royal duties. Christmas at Sandringhan is going to be messy this year.
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