The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2661  
Old 11-17-2019, 06:50 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 12,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I'm sorry, my head is still spinning from the godawful interview and subsequent fallout & I'm not paying close enough attention to who said what in this forum.
What on earth was he thinking?

Scratch that...he clearly was not! The "interview" raises more questions than answers and now it appears it has challenged the tabloids to prove some of his truth's as untruths. We have already seen pics of him sweating, hugging, and an article that people can lose the potential to sweat but it appears that is not applicable in Andrew's case as evidenced of the pictures of him sweating.

I get that HM is going to find it hard to rein in Andrew he is her child. But Charles is going to see this for what it is. And in the Monarchy under Charles, I don't imagine we will see much of Andrew. Anne and Edward yes..Andrew no. Wherever he goes, this Epstein cloud will follow him (and rightly so). Poor Judgement! What an understatement!
__________________

__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #2662  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:24 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
The overall impression I was left with after the interview, aside from my initial thoughts posted upthread, is that Andrew, with few exceptions, does not see the people who surround him in a service or subordinate mode as real live human beings. He "didn't want to seem grand," but over and over again, he made clear that people who he didn't see as worthy of his notice only exist as an unimportant background to his life. The underage girls who came and went in Epstein's properties may truly have not been noticed by Andrew, because they weren't important enough for him to notice. They weren't real people to him. That's one of the most damning revelations in the interview, in my opinion.
I felt the same way. It struck me when he made the comment about how, as a member of the Royal Family, he was used to being surrounded by staff walking around, and how he didn't have meaningful interactions with staff. Anyone he does not consider to be his social equal, or important because of something they can do for him - like Epstein - is not worthy of his notice. Staff are invisible to him. I can't help wondering whether he is used to his minders providing women for him for sex. The girls wandering around Epstein's homes were invisible to him. Virginia was invisible to him, that's why he doesn't remember meeting her. She provided him with a service, but was not worthy of his attention and conversation. This is consistent with her comments about him being polite but otherwise not talkative.
__________________

__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #2663  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:32 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,407
I think the thing that really leaves me shaking my head in disgust is that even with the reality of the situation put before him and with everyone and their great aunt's pet cockatoo clearly seeing the interview as the train wreck it was, Andrew goes on believing that he did good and put "matters to rest" and will continue to hold a high esteem of his own self. The rest of his family may be losing sleep over Andrew's behavior but he'll go on as always exhibiting his irrational sense of "importance" and "entitlement".

I don't think even sending him to the Tower would phase him. He'd treat it all as if it was his new "castle" and he was "prince" over it all. Some people never learn from their mistakes solely because they think they can't make any in the first place.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2664  
Old 11-17-2019, 09:08 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
The overall impression I was left with after the interview, aside from my initial thoughts posted upthread, is that Andrew, with few exceptions, does not see the people who surround him in a service or subordinate mode as real live human beings. He "didn't want to seem grand," but over and over again, he made clear that people who he didn't see as worthy of his notice only exist as an unimportant background to his life. The underage girls who came and went in Epstein's properties may truly have not been noticed by Andrew, because they weren't important enough for him to notice. They weren't real people to him. That's one of the most damning revelations in the interview, in my opinion.
Do you think many royals truly see subordinates around them as real live human beings, though? In fact, I would replace “subordinates” for “regular people” and my answer would still be no, with rare exceptions. They’re born in a bubble and every experience they have growing up that involves relating to regular people is either as part of an official engagement or as part of their educational experience. They’re sent out to various places to interact with, (carefully chosen, usually quite well off), regular people in the same way they’re taught the etiquette and protocol surrounding a state visit. Its another box to tick so everyone can see how well prepared they’ve been. The smarter ones know very well they can actually do whatever they want, the more naive ones may think they actually ARE regular people who just happen to be living lives where every potential bit of trouble seems to come to nothing.

I think the situation with Andrew is repugnant, but what struck me about some of the more clueless comments in the interview was that probably a lot of his royal counterparts around the world would think the same sorts of things under similar circumstances. They’d just be smart enough to tell the public what it wanted to hear or would be “advised” to say nothing at all.
Reply With Quote
  #2665  
Old 11-17-2019, 09:49 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada, Canada
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think the situation with Andrew is repugnant, but what struck me about some of the more clueless comments in the interview was that probably a lot of his royal counterparts around the world would think the same sorts of things under similar circumstances. They’d just be smart enough to tell the public what it wanted to hear or would be “advised” to say nothing at all.
I agree with you. Andrew was raised to view the world the way he does. And I suspect many of the older generations of royals also think this way - they are just socially aware enough not to express it in an interview...or they don't give interviews at all (like the Queen).

If we knew how the Queen truly views her 'subordinates,' perhaps we would also be shocked.
Reply With Quote
  #2666  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:12 PM
Tarlita's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,092
I would guess right about now he must feel bewildered by the reaction from the Palace courtiers about the media response. It is not too late for this Duke to be taken out of the bubble and sent to spend at least a year in the real world. Away from the safety of the palace. Away from sycophants.
Plenty of remote outback cattle stations here where down to earth people would treat him as just another cowboy.
Or perhaps the Canadian forestry service could use him.
Somewhere where he would have to cook for himself do his own washing etc. With plenty of time to reflect as to why the public are so outraged by his demeanour.
Reply With Quote
  #2667  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:22 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 10,129
Even though Andrew is the most extreme of the queen's four children, I suspect each of them have entitlement issues in varying degrees.

Prince Charles has impressive manners and is very gracious to the public. I have also read that he can be an elitist snob. He has rarefied tastes and has always insisted on an almost Edwardian standard of lavish living in his various homes.

Anne is hard working and down to earth. She is also rude and dismissive of other people.

Everyone remembers Edward's foot stomping hissy fit when reporters dissed his disastrous "It's A Royal Knockout" TV special.

These four were not raised in the new way Royal parents want their kids to be as "normal" as possible whatever that means. They were not born in hospitals. They were raised by old fashioned strict nannies and tutors, and attended elite schools with other aristocrats.

And they were raised with the knowledge that they were Royal and therefore special...all of them.

Prince Andrew, spoiled, indulged, and the most physically attractive of HMQ's children really took this to heart.

ETA: The same goes for Princess Margaret's two children. I remember a story from one of the women's magazines when David Linley(now Lord Snowden) was a little boy of about eight. A visitor arrived at Clarence House to see Princess Margaret, and after the butler had gone of to fetch her the visitor tried to make small talk with the child by referring to the princess as "your mother".

She recounted that little Viscount Linley stiffened immediately..."Do you mean Her Royal Highness The Princess Margaret"?
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #2668  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:56 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,548
And there you have it in a nutshell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Can anyone tell me how exactly, legally, it would work to get Andrew to step down? What’s in place?
Nothing. HM would have to work at it but why should she?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Jesus take the wheel. Andrew stands by doing that interview.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html

This is a mess. Is there a chance the government will step in an demand action or strip Andrew of rank and remove Andrew from the succession? This mess is spilling on the BRF.
Legality is totally irrelevant, he has been convicted in the court of public opinion for nothing less than being an entitled pratt and acting accordingly. If hanging were still a penalty I am sure they would demand it and no, he is not Jack the Ripper. Whatever they do he will still be Prince Andrew, the third child and second son of The Queen.

To those clutching their pearls, I would remind you that in the Navy fraternising between the ranks was an absolute career anding no-no and his lack of acquaintance with the enlisted personnel was not only real, but it was also encouraged. To a lesser degree, the same thing happens in royal households. The Cambridges had a rough start with their live-in staff and treading all over their jobs trying to be "helpful".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
For what does he have to answer for exactly?

The interview was the biggest train wreck I’ve ever seen and I’ve watched Unstoppable a million times. Andrew is arrogant, stupid and incredibly selfish.

But what has he done that requires him to go to court?
Nothing. Acute arrogance is not a crime and crass stupidity knows no bounds.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2669  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:11 AM
Claire's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

Everyone remembers Edward's foot stomping hissy fit when reporters dissed his disastrous "It's A Royal Knockout" TV special.
Rather unfair considering his age at the time , but more his naivety and inexperience. But point made - they are all products of their upbringing. Examples can also be given for the current young royals. To be honest - examples can be given for any children born into money, status and fame, royal or not. However there is a leap from pride and entitlement to criminal.
Reply With Quote
  #2670  
Old 11-18-2019, 02:43 AM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
the interview was most awkward. i sensed that andrew shows a lack of logic that is puzzling throughout, which really doesn't help to trust him. he seemed honest enough in his body language but many times during the interview his speech seemed contradictory. not sure what to make of this.
The timing of this interview is terrible, from a BP standpoint. The General Election is in less than a month, and Charles is on an important tour on the other side of the world, currently in New Zealand.

When Andrew and Fergie separated, HM asked them to keep it private because of a General Election at the time. It got in the papers anyway, (it emerged years later that the leak was not their fault) and The Queen was very angry. So that's why I don't think HM approved of this interview. And she certainly doesn't want Charles and Camilla to be asked about Andrew's situation while they are on a major tour.
Reply With Quote
  #2671  
Old 11-18-2019, 02:59 AM
Elly C's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,108
Some of the most recent comments in this thread provide a perfect example of the potential damage Andrew has done, and continues to do, to the reputation of the wider family. Even here, where people are overwhelmingly positive and polite about the Royals, people are beginning to reassess the extent to which they are unconnected to the concerns of real people. Behaviour from years back is being raked over. Who knows how this will end, but I cannot see Andrew doing the decent thing, whatever that turns out to be. Meanwhile all the good that has been done in recent years in making the Royals seem relevant, hardworking and a stable force in an increasingly unstable society is in jeopardy. No high level government advise is likely to be forthcoming in the next few weeks with the current priorities being Brexit and the General Election. Andrew needs to metaphorically fall on his sword’, but who is able make him see that this is the only way forward if he wants to preserve what he claims to value so highly.
Reply With Quote
  #2672  
Old 11-18-2019, 03:25 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Coastal California, United States
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob2008 View Post
This interview is going to put an end to the campaign against Andrew - and stop the persecution of him.
Well, that didn’t happen, it simply added fuel to the fire.
Unfortunately for Andrew too much of what he said is easily disproved - and we’re seeing that now and the evidence disproving it is tawdry, sleazy, and paints him as a playboy cavorting with women at various parties.
Nor did Andrew do himself any favors by focusing on defending/minimizing his own abysmal lack of judgement while ignoring the underage victims of his ‘friend’ Epstein, indeed Andrew still believes it was ok to be friends with such a man because Epstein taught him so much and introduced him to important people. He claims he was forced by ‘honor’ to stay with a sex offender four days in order to end the relationship, his only regret seems to be that despite the massive security he was photographed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Jungle View Post
...
Another fellow has counter sued one woman...
Are you referencing Dershowitz (if so, a little background reading on him is quite edifying) or is there another person who was sued for defamation who’s counterclaimed?
The Queen controls the purse strings, she allocates the money that pays for Andrew’s staff and his travel which enables him to do his Royal work, she could simply tell him he is to step away for a time & then not allocate any money to his office or travel. I doubt she’ll do so, and thus Andrew will continue as before, firm in his conviction he has done nothing wrong except for being ‘too honorable’ in how he said good by to his friend the sex offender.
Reply With Quote
  #2673  
Old 11-18-2019, 03:46 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 21,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Even though Andrew is the most extreme of the queen's four children, I suspect each of them have entitlement issues in varying degrees.

Prince Charles has impressive manners and is very gracious to the public. I have also read that he can be an elitist snob. He has rarefied tastes and has always insisted on an almost Edwardian standard of lavish living in his various homes.

Anne is hard working and down to earth. She is also rude and dismissive of other people.

Everyone remembers Edward's foot stomping hissy fit when reporters dissed his disastrous "It's A Royal Knockout" TV special.

These four were not raised in the new way Royal parents want their kids to be as "normal" as possible whatever that means. They were not born in hospitals. They were raised by old fashioned strict nannies and tutors, and attended elite schools with other aristocrats.

And they were raised with the knowledge that they were Royal and therefore special...all of them.

Prince Andrew, spoiled, indulged, and the most physically attractive of HMQ's children really took this to heart.

Whilst I agree that all 4 children were raised in the knowledge that they were royal (well duh?), they were brought up in a different era and sent to schools deemed appropriate for them. I really see no proof of anything you’ve said about anyone except Andrew.

The fact that Charles has rarified tastes (what are they btw?) doesn’t stretch to him thinking he’s above everyone which is frankly what I believe is being suggested here. Anne being rude and dismissive, your point being? That’s a demeanour, it’s quite obviously Anne’s nature to be that way as it is millions of other people in the world who aren’t royal. As for Edwards “foot stomping”, wouldn’t you be a bit annoyed if you’d worked on something and thought it would do good for it to be dismissed publicly?

Andrew is the most entitled and the interview showed, but don’t tar the royal family with the same brush for no reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post



If we knew how the Queen truly views her 'subordinates,' perhaps we would also be shocked.

Clearly you’ve never read any book authorised by The Queen. Currently reading Angela Kelly’s 2nd Book and it very clearly illustrates how Her Majesty treats, cares for, respects and admires her staff.


Anyone who thinks any RF views their staff as subordinates, is delusional IMO.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #2674  
Old 11-18-2019, 04:19 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
^ Every last word ! Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #2675  
Old 11-18-2019, 04:53 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I would guess right about now he must feel bewildered by the reaction from the Palace courtiers about the media response. It is not too late for this Duke to be taken out of the bubble and sent to spend at least a year in the real world. Away from the safety of the palace. Away from sycophants.
Plenty of remote outback cattle stations here where down to earth people would treat him as just another cowboy.
Or perhaps the Canadian forestry service could use him.
Somewhere where he would have to cook for himself do his own washing etc. With plenty of time to reflect as to why the public are so outraged by his demeanour.
Andrew served many years in the Navy and even saw active combat . I am pretty sure that gave him a sense of the real world far beyond what many posters here think.

Furthermore why is everybody here assuming that Virginia is telling the truth and Andrew is lying ? Doesn’t his alibi check out ?
Reply With Quote
  #2676  
Old 11-18-2019, 04:59 AM
Empress Merel's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: -, Netherlands
Posts: 2,757
What sense is there in lying when you're up against men far more powerful than you?
Reply With Quote
  #2677  
Old 11-18-2019, 05:31 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,349
Anyone with a heart should tell The Duke of York to take a long break from public life to sort this mess out. Or retire completely. For the sake of the very family AND institution he has been born into. There is no ”mercy” when you are a royal...

This mess will haunt him for the rest of his life and he 1. has obviously no idea how to handle a pr-crisis and 2. he obviously don’t listen to advisors who don’t tell him what he likes to hear. He clearly wants to be surrounded only by yes-sayers.

Let’s face it. The Queen should be the one to tell this to him - but she won’t.
Reply With Quote
  #2678  
Old 11-18-2019, 05:40 AM
Elenath's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nuth, Netherlands
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Morally you may be right, but LEGALLY it is everything.. and the Courts instruct juries to make their decision on that basis, and that basis alone.
Here in the Netherlands age of consent is moot when trafficking or prostitution are concerned. Don't know what the laws in the USA say though.

Quote:
Throughout Great Britain it is illegal to buy sex from a person younger than 18, although the age of consent for non-commercial sex is 16 throughout the United Kingdom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosti...United_Kingdom

As I understood it, the first time Andrew allegedly had seks with Virginia was in the UK. She was 17 at the time. That would make it a crime. Now, here in the Netherlands he would have a duty to investigate her age, don't know if taht also exists in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosti...age_of_consent
Reply With Quote
  #2679  
Old 11-18-2019, 07:35 AM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 1,742
Yeah the Mail is having a field day with the French Riveria video and pics. Doesn't look like Bible study to me. He looks like a college student on U.S. Spring Break. What the palace really needs to fear of any video and pics owned by Epstein that show Andrew and underage girls engaging in unlawful sex. If SDNY prosecutors have them Andrew is done.
Reply With Quote
  #2680  
Old 11-18-2019, 07:38 AM
crm2317's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,535
I think whether Andrew believes he is innocent of any wrongdoing or not he should read the public mood and respect it. If not for the Queen and his family then for the sake of his ‘honour’.
__________________

__________________
God Save the House of Windsor
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
abdication althorp anastasia anastasia once upon a time baby names bangladesh bridal gown chittagong cht clarence house diana princess of wales dragons dubai duke of cambridge earl of snowdon facts future general news thread hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hill historical drama history hochberg imperial household intro italian royal family jacobite japan jewellery jumma languages list of rulers mail mary: crown princess of denmark mountbatten nepalese royal jewels northern ireland norway norway history palestine pless prince charles of luxembourg prince dimitri princess chulabhorn walailak princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange princess ribha queen louise queen mathilde random facts royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royalty of taiwan royal wedding royal wedding gown serbian royal family settings snowdon spencer family thailand thai royal family tracts uae customs united states of america wittelsbach working royals; full-time royals; part-time royals;


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:06 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×