The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2641  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:31 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wherever I wish, United States
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I was thinking the same - is there any precedent ?

Beside the Duke of Windsor has anyone been cast out of the family? And the abdication was the tool of the decision. If he is asked to retire - it would be odd considering the Queen is still going on at her age. Their hand might be forced with the charities pulling out around him.

The only way I see it happening was in a completely restructuring of the family. And that can only happen if the Queen abdicated or dies or well a regency.

I imagine it somehow as the Queen passes, Charles takes over, Princess Ann askes to became a full time horse breeder and Andrew is well allowed to do what he wants outside of the public eye. I don't think anyone will care what becomes of Edward and Sophie. Kents, Gloucesters either.

The monarchy then is only Charles, William and Harry like it is wanted.
You could possibly have Andrew de facto retire, without an official announcement. He steps down as patron and the patronages get rehomed to other members of the royal family; he resigns his role at Trooping and gets replaced (likely by Harry); and "voluntarily" decides not to show up to public royal family events (Trooping, Remembrance Sunday, state banquets, etc..). While no one can force him into exile, having him basically removed from the public aspects of royal life might help.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2642  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:34 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 1,599
Jesus take the wheel. Andrew stands by doing that interview.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html

This is a mess. Is there a chance the government will step in an demand action or strip Andrew of rank and remove Andrew from the succession? This mess is spilling on the BRF.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2643  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:48 PM
Empress Merel's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: -, Netherlands
Posts: 2,738
Whew I was away the weekend so I'm way late to this but man... he is lying through his teeth when he says he has no memory of meeting her. What a bunch of nonsense.

Who even thought this interview was a good idea?! I mean, christ. Anyone with a little sense of PR knows you shouldn't speak when you haven't got anything to say or even say something when you DO! And even then, agreeing to do an interview with a superior intelligent person ain't a good idea.
They are losing all sense there. If the BRF implodes in onto itself, they only got themselves to blame.

Get this man to court. He's got answering to do.
Reply With Quote
  #2644  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:51 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MalmŲ, Sweden
Posts: 2,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Jesus take the wheel. Andrew stands by doing that interview.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...interview.html

This is a mess. Is there a chance the government will step in an demand action or strip Andrew of rank and remove Andrew from the succession? This mess is spilling on the BRF.
That would require an Act of Parliament. It would be highly unusual and as things stand today I believe that government and parliament has more pressing issues to deal with than a prince without morals and a serious lack of judgement.
Reply With Quote
  #2645  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:54 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 14,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
And what would you say if he knew she was forced? Would that change anything for you? And it doesn't matter if there were more men. If Andrew knew she was being forced, it makes what he did illegal.
Proving what Andrew knew or didn't know is hard to prove and made even more so by his own "I can't remember" statement. As far as I'm aware, the criminal investigations at this time only pertain to Epstein's sex trafficking allegations and they're digging to find his cohorts. The only way the sex with Giuffre is going to come into the picture with a criminal slant now is if Giuffre, herself, files a civil lawsuit against Andrew in the US or if Ghislaine Maxwell, herself, throws Andrew under the proverbial bus.

As far as repercussions following this interview that would ostracize or demote Andrew in his standing with the BRF, I don't see that happening. There have been plenty of members of the British Royal Family that have had less than stellar morals and have been known to really do questionable things in private but its not grounds for exile or any other drastic means of action. Most likely what is to happen is that charities and patronages that Andrew sponsors will request he no longer represent them. Reputation suicide is something that Andrew, himself, will have to live with. Let his conscience be his guide (if he even has one). Whatever Andrew's family thinks and feels about all of this will remain behind closed doors and not be aired for public consumption.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2646  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:58 PM
carlota's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 8,056
the interview was most awkward. i sensed that andrew shows a lack of logic that is puzzling throughout, which really doesn't help to trust him. he seemed honest enough in his body language but many times during the interview his speech seemed contradictory. not sure what to make of this.
__________________
The Humane Society of the United States is the nationís largest and most effective animal protection organization.
https://www.humanesociety.org
Reply With Quote
  #2647  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:06 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,304
Quote:
Get this man to court. He's got answering to do.
I may be mistaken but I believe the complainant was 17 years old at the time of [the alleged] offence, and that is over the age of consent in all of the jurisdictions in which the 'offence' took place ?

Do 'correct me if i'm wrong' ?
Reply With Quote
  #2648  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:10 PM
HereditaryPrincess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,166
Even if Virginia Giuffre was of legal age of consent, she was still trafficked at the time she met Andrew, so the situation is still worthy of a court case IMO and is a poor excuse to defend him. If Andrew were any "normal" person he would be one of the prime suspects (being a close friend of both Maxwell and Epstein and the photographs) in this investigation and would be questioned along with everyone else. Let's face it; it's because of his position that he hasn't been arrested or at least questioned by the police.
__________________
"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

*
"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
Reply With Quote
  #2649  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:12 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 9,531
Red face

I don't believe Andrew fully realized his rich but sleazy pal was a sex trafficker . At least not before Epstein's 2010 conviction.

The Prince Andrew of the 1990's likely still saw himself as the Royal Robert Redford that Charles described him as in his teens and 20's. In his egotistical head he was still the dashing handsome war hero soldier returning from the Falklands with a rose clenched between his teeth. Girls were swooning and the press was fawning in the 80's. I remember it VERY well. I was one of those swooning girls.:cool

So when his swinging buddy Epstein opened up his personal Xanadu and handed Andrew the keys to the kingdom, Andrew no doubt figured all these young lissome women were geishas eager to indulge the Royal pleasure. Sure it was 1999 and not 1983. But by God was he not still a handsome virile man? A Prince of the Blood? A member of the British Royal family? Of course these hot young nobodies were eager to bed him, as Epstein likely assured him.

The fact that he was in reality an aging divorced father of tween daughters, and that he was losing his hair and growing paunchy was not how he himself saw things.

And in the now infamous photo of Andrew and Virginia she looked pleased as punch...not shy. Not frightened at all. Definitely not forced into anything.

There is also video of Ms Giuffre partying and living the high life in Nice in the company of Naomi Campbell as well. There is no way-before 2010-that a self absorbed clod like the DoY would have been necessarily suspicious of Epstein's harem without being filled in.

After the arrest and conviction of 2010?

All bets off.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #2650  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:12 PM
Empress Merel's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: -, Netherlands
Posts: 2,738
Age of consent means nothing when you have very powerful, very rich men telling an underage, impressionable girl, away from her parent, what to do and grooming you to be a sex slave.

Young enough to fit in the criteria, yet old enough to almost be able to excuse abominable behaviour.
Reply With Quote
  #2651  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:19 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,304
Quote:
Age of consent means nothing
Morally you may be right, but LEGALLY it is everything.. and the Courts instruct juries to make their decision on that basis, and that basis alone.
Reply With Quote
  #2652  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:32 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 14,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Even if Virginia Giuffre was of legal age of consent, she was still trafficked at the time she met Andrew, so the situation is still worthy of a court case IMO and is a poor excuse to defend him. If Andrew were any "normal" person he would be one of the prime suspects (being a close friend of both Maxwell and Epstein and the photographs) in this investigation and would be questioned along with everyone else. Let's face it; it's because of his position that he hasn't been arrested or at least questioned by the police.
In the manner of sex trafficking, the ongoing investigation is into those that trafficked and controlled these girls and not the "clients" that they were told to service. Andrew, most likely, falls into the "client" category. He wasn't the one that trafficked anyone or controlled who these girls "serviced", Andrew may be seen by public opinion of being morally bankrupt and many other things, but as the criminal investigation by the FBI and authorities at this time are pursuing the sex trafficking allegations, Andrew doesn't come into the picture. As stated before, Ms. Giuffre could file a civil lawsuit against Andrew herself but that remains to be seen if it becomes a reality.

A pimp in NYC could have a gazillion "working girls" under his control and that still wouldn't be sex trafficking. Its a local prostitution ring. Now, if this pimp in NYC had also "places of business" in Chicago, Los Angeles and Parumph, NM and "moved" his girls between these places, that's sex trafficking.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2653  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:36 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 299
There's no question of anybody stripping Prince Andrew of his titles. All that he's actually known to be guilty of is having very poor judgement when it comes to choosing his friends. But the interview was a disaster. Even strongly royalist newspapers are pulling him to pieces, and he's not particularly popular anyway, because he's seen as someone who does a lot of jetting around whilst the others do the hard work. I see that his PR guy's resigned. I don't know what he was thinking of, giving a public interview like that. In the middle of a General Election campaign, and with several parts of the country affected by flooding, no-one was paying the slightest bit of attention to the Epstein affair. Now it's the headlines of the news.
Reply With Quote
  #2654  
Old 11-17-2019, 05:57 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 20,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post

Get this man to court. He's got answering to do.


For what does he have to answer for exactly?

The interview was the biggest train wreck Iíve ever seen and Iíve watched Unstoppable a million times. Andrew is arrogant, stupid and incredibly selfish.

But what has he done that requires him to go to court?
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #2655  
Old 11-17-2019, 06:48 PM
Empress Merel's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: -, Netherlands
Posts: 2,738
His role and participation in his relation with trafficked underage women and what the hell went on in Epsteins estates, to start with.
Reply With Quote
  #2656  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:03 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bellevue, United States
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In the manner of sex trafficking, the ongoing investigation is into those that trafficked and controlled these girls and not the "clients" that they were told to service. Andrew, most likely, falls into the "client" category. He wasn't the one that trafficked anyone or controlled who these girls "serviced", Andrew may be seen by public opinion of being morally bankrupt and many other things, but as the criminal investigation by the FBI and authorities at this time are pursuing the sex trafficking allegations, Andrew doesn't come into the picture. As stated before, Ms. Giuffre could file a civil lawsuit against Andrew herself but that remains to be seen if it becomes a reality.

A pimp in NYC could have a gazillion "working girls" under his control and that still wouldn't be sex trafficking. Its a local prostitution ring. Now, if this pimp in NYC had also "places of business" in Chicago, Los Angeles and Parumph, NM and "moved" his girls between these places, that's sex trafficking.

You're exactly right, Andrew hasn't been accused of sex trafficking, only of having sex with Virginia Giuffre who states she was a victim of Epstein's sex trafficking.

But just to clarify, trafficking and smuggling aren't the same. If the pimp in your example forces or coerces the women into prostitution its considered to be sex trafficking. Moving them from one place to another isn't required.

If the victims are underage then force or coercion aren't necessary. It's still sex trafficking under federal law.

See "Myth: Human trafficking and human smuggling are the same" and "Myth: Individuals must be forced or coerced into commercial sex acts to be victims of sex trafficking" at the Dept. of Homeland Security website:
https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/my...misconceptions
Reply With Quote
  #2657  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:05 PM
HereditaryPrincess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
You're exactly right, Andrew hasn't been accused of sex trafficking, only of having sex with Virginia Giuffre who states she was a victim of Epstein's sex trafficking.
This is what I meant when I was referring to trafficking; I guess I wasnít clear...
__________________
"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

*
"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
Reply With Quote
  #2658  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:12 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,846
And now the media prove how rubbish some of Andrew's claims are

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-Riviera.html

Newly-revealed video shows Prince Andrew enjoying raucous parties on the French Riviera in the late 2000s
The footage, along with several photos, sees the Prince enjoying the attention of a string of beautiful women
It comes after Andrew gave 'car crash' BBC interview where he defended relationship with Jeffrey Epstein
Prince Andrew claimed he didn't indulge in public affection and a medical condition left him unable to sweat
However, the photos and video shows Andrew embracing several women and looking sweaty and dishevelled


On top of that the DM says Andrew was at church today with the Queen and told her it "was mission accomplished" with the interview and had "put all criticism to rest"

Not sure what planet he is living on and hope someone informs HM otherwise.

However, the Telegraph is also reporting that the Queen did not in fact give permission for the interview and was only informed of it "after it had been set up"
Reply With Quote
  #2659  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:15 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bellevue, United States
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
This is what I meant when I was referring to trafficking; I guess I wasnít clear...
I'm sorry, my head is still spinning from the godawful interview and subsequent fallout & I'm not paying close enough attention to who said what in this forum.
Reply With Quote
  #2660  
Old 11-17-2019, 07:46 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 6
The Duke of York should count himself lucky that the procedure for revoking a dukedom is so arduous. It would require going through Parliament and unopening several cans of worms. Otherwise it would be a possibility, as happened to Infanta Cristina. Until now the Epstein affair has avoided clouding the wider royal family. That seems unavoidable now. The last thing Britain needs is a crisis of confidence in the royals at such a delicate time. This has been an unmitigated disaster; normally respectful, establishment outlets like the Times, the Telegraph, and BBC are calling it a "car-wreck", "excruciating", "pathetic".

The best course of action for Andrew is to now take an early retirement and hand over most of his duties to other members of the Royal Family: most naturally the Duke of Sussex and the Earl of Wessex. He should relocate somewhere abroad for some time-- supervised by the Foreign Office-- in which he might discreetly continue promoting British commercial interests while avoiding scandal. Singapore or Mauritius would appear good choices (perhaps an arrangement could be found with the Singapore Government for him to lease a nice Black and White bungalow, not unlike the Duke of Windsor). In a few years if things have quieted down he could return provided he keeps a low profile from thereon. But if his brother has assumed the throne by then it may end up permanent.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
alqasimi althorp aristocracy armenia bangladesh belgian royal family birthday celebration castles charles of wales chittagong clarence house crown prince hussein crown prince hussein's future wife crown princess victoria current events cyprus danish history denmark diana princess of wales duchess of sussex duke & duchess of cambridge; duke of cambridge duke of sussex dutch dutch royal family felipe vi foundation french revolution future genealogy general news germany hamdan bin mohammed hill historical drama house of bourbon house of saxe-coburg and gotha jumma king salman languages lithuanian castles mail meghan markle memoir mohammed vi monaco christening monaco history monarchism nobel 2019 official visit palaces prince charles prince harry prince of wales princess margaret royal children royal tour russian imperial family saudi arabia settings spain spanish history spencer family state visit sweden swedish royal family swedish royalty thai royal family tracts united kingdom


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×