The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2461  
Old 10-29-2019, 04:01 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,337
Andrew has only ever denied that he had sex with her not that he was ever in her company so I don't really see where he is going with this fake photo thing. I'm sure if the photo didn't exist he would have denied that he had ever met her.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2462  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:11 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,609
So posters are relying on a tabloid report that obviously got no traction or it would have popped up all over the news and net. It hasn't, yet here are all these posters taking the 'moral high ground, tut, tut, tutting and metaphorically sharing their point little index fingers over one unattributed report.
__________________

__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2463  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:15 AM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
So posters are relying on a tabloid report that obviously got no traction or it would have popped up all over the news and net. It hasn't, yet here are all these posters taking the 'moral high ground, tut, tut, tutting and metaphorically sharing their point little index fingers over one unattributed report.
That sums it up pretty much, yes.
Reply With Quote
  #2464  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:38 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Do you have a link to an article? Where did you read this?
The original source was apparently this article in the Sunday Times.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...otos-zvnq3n90l
Reply With Quote
  #2465  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:57 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The original source was apparently this article in the Sunday Times.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...otos-zvnq3n90l
He's scurrying around trying to find anyway at all to distance himself from the whole episode. I look forward to Ghislaine Maxwell being apprehended and questioned but the cynic in me feels that people in power are actually allowing her not to be caught. I suspect it's either that or have her commit suicide too which just wouldn't wash at this point in time so soon after Epstein's highly suspicious death.
Reply With Quote
  #2466  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:48 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,525
At this point in time, we actually have no concrete evidence of any wrongdoings by Andrew at all. There are allegations and accusations and a photo that allude to a possible moral lapse of character but until the facts have been established beyond a reasonable doubt that Andrew actually did do what he's been accused of doing, I'm not going to character assassinate the man.

Although its true that Andrew has never been among my favorite members of the BRF and I can believe that perhaps all these allegations and accusations and trying to prove the photo itself was faked do point to wrong doings by Andrew, but in the here and the now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as I do believe that people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Ghislaine Maxwell has the ways and the means to discreetly disappear off the face of the earth should she want to. What kind of a life will she have though knowing she always needs to look over her shoulder to avoid being caught? That, in and of itself would make anyone feel like they're a prisoner in their own mind. She has as much of a lack of freedom now that she would have behind bars. The fact that she's not come forward gives credence to the accusations that she aided and abetted Epstein in his crimes. Then, again, she is innocent until actually proven guilty.

She's not doing herself any favors by "ghosting" herself though. In a way, her self exile kind of reminds me of the sad picture that Saddam Hussein presented when they finally found him hiding in a six by eight hole looking very much like a caged animal. Its sad but cowards do not take kindly to facing up to their deeds let along themselves in a mirror.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2467  
Old 10-31-2019, 09:49 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
At this point in time, we actually have no concrete evidence of any wrongdoings by Andrew at all. There are allegations and accusations...

Well, we have no evidence of any crimes of Epstein himself too.

Just some alleged witnesses which spoke out! Some of them accused Epstein, some Prince Andrew too.

Btw An forensic expert, a well known one, hired by Epstein's brother, claimed yesterday, Epstein was murdered with the highest probability.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...ic-expert-says
Reply With Quote
  #2468  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:04 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 21,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
Well, we have no evidence of any crimes of Epstein himself too.


Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and charged with sex trafficking and conspiracy to traffic minors for sex. This is what he was in jail for when he died. The only reason charges were dropped was due to his death.

I very rarely come on to this thread anymore, but I will say this.

Prince Andrew has not been charged, arrested or investigated for anything.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #2469  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:30 AM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and charged with sex trafficking and conspiracy to traffic minors for sex. This is what he was in jail for when he died. The only reason charges were dropped was due to his death.

I very rarely come on to this thread anymore, but I will say this.

Prince Andrew has not been charged, arrested or investigated for anything.
Let's not forget that in addition to the charges you mentioned Epstein pleaded guilty and was convicted in 2008 by a Florida state court of procuring an underage girl for prostitution and of soliciting a prostitute.
Reply With Quote
  #2470  
Old 10-31-2019, 11:08 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and charged with sex trafficking and conspiracy to traffic minors for sex. This is what he was in jail for when he died. The only reason charges were dropped was due to his death.

I very rarely come on to this thread anymore, but I will say this.

Prince Andrew has not been charged, arrested or investigated for anything.
I'm open to correction but he hasn't been accused of anything either. Virginia said Epstein forced her to have sex with Andrew but she has never said Andrew raped her, or that Andrew had sex with her knowing she didn't consent and was being forced to service him, or that Andrew knew she was being trafficked, or that she was under the age of consent when she and Andrew had sex. (Andrew has, of course denied that they ever had sex.)
Reply With Quote
  #2471  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:28 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and charged with sex trafficking and conspiracy to traffic minors for sex. This is what he was in jail for when he died. The only reason charges were dropped was due to his death.

I very rarely come on to this thread anymore, but I will say this.

Prince Andrew has not been charged, arrested or investigated for anything.

Also for Epstein, right, innocent 'til proven guilty.

And I wonder and I asked this before, if Prince Andrew enjoys some kind of immunity from penal law - abroad and in Britain? Wikipedia has also no real answer (or my English is not good enough):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovere...United_Kingdom
Reply With Quote
  #2472  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:37 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,832
I always try to remember that there were young girls who were hurt in this whole thing. They went through something that no young girl or young woman should go through.

The power differences in this situation plays a major part here. The rich and powerful men and woman who put these young girls through this horrific experience got what they wanted out of these girls and has done everything possible to cover for themselves and for each other. At the end of the day, they get the upper hand and the benefit of the doubt.

The young girls and women who were sexually used and abused for the powerful people’s entertainment and sick desires are left on their own. Fighting to get their voices and stories heard. Left trying to legally convince the courts and public that their horrible experiences were real and not something they just made up. The only power they have is to bravely come together as one and demand some justice for which they deserve.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #2473  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:43 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North York, Canada
Posts: 186
I’m of the opinion that people are not guilty until proven guilty in a court of law.
Reply With Quote
  #2474  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:24 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 21,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
Also for Epstein, right, innocent 'til proven guilty.

And I wonder and I asked this before, if Prince Andrew enjoys some kind of immunity from penal law - abroad and in Britain? Wikipedia has also no real answer (or my English is not good enough):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovere...United_Kingdom


I think you’re misreading what I have written.

Epstein was accused, charged and was sent to jail in 2019. As another poster has mentioned, in 2008 Epstein was found guilty of procuring a girl for prostitution under the age of 18. So in relation to the charges put to him in 2019, he had previous offences which linked to the accusations.

I repeat for the last and final time, Andrew has never been accused, charged or investigated for anything.

Andrew does not have any kind of immunity.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #2475  
Old 11-01-2019, 06:01 PM
MaryQueenofScots's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Edinburgh, United States
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Met has already conducted an investigation. ... The Met - one of the best police investigative forces in the world - has already cleared Andrew of any crime in the UK.
Don't want to be pedantic ... but ... what a Met Spokesperson was actually reported as saying in September 2019 about their previous response was,

"Having closely examined the available evidence, the decision was made that this would not progress to a full investigation. As such, the matter was closed."

The Met Spokesperson continues regarding their more recent response,

"We acknowledge the considerable interest and concern around this case and have revisited that decision making and believe it remains entirely appropriate. 'Therefore no further action is being taken. "

So, I take that to mean there was not enough evidence and / or inclination to proceed with a "full investigation". Not quite the same as Andrew being "cleared"?
Reply With Quote
  #2476  
Old 11-01-2019, 10:42 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 5,695
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/n...ael-baden.html is this what we are talking about? The New York Times that his brother hired another pathologist to say he may have been strangled instead of suicide
Reply With Quote
  #2477  
Old 11-02-2019, 06:38 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryQueenofScots View Post
Don't want to be pedantic ... but ... what a Met Spokesperson was actually reported as saying in September 2019 about their previous response was,

"Having closely examined the available evidence, the decision was made that this would not progress to a full investigation. As such, the matter was closed."

The Met Spokesperson continues regarding their more recent response,

"We acknowledge the considerable interest and concern around this case and have revisited that decision making and believe it remains entirely appropriate. 'Therefore no further action is being taken. "

So, I take that to mean there was not enough evidence and / or inclination to proceed with a "full investigation". Not quite the same as Andrew being "cleared"?
Actually it is. Every ctominal court case is brought by the Crown Prosecution Service. Since the statement was made by a Met Police Spokesperson it seems to suggest there was either no evidence, or insufficient evidence to even send to CPS.

In short, there was no case to answer.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2478  
Old 11-02-2019, 06:55 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,525
That's the way the law works. In order to actually indict and take a case to court, there has to be a concrete case with evidence and actual criminal intent to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court to be heard.

As far as I'm aware, the case against Andrew that was looked at by the Met Police showed no reason to pursue it further. As the allegation that Andrew had sex with Ms. Giuffre at Maxwell's residence in London and that she was sex trafficked there by Epstein and Maxwell, the facts are that Andrew had no part in the trafficking angle of any of this and even if he did have sex with Ms. Giuffre at the time, by UK statutes, Ms. Giuffre was of a legal age to consent.

There was nothing in the case to warrant it being taken to a court or investigated further. The Met Police may find they have a totally different opinion should they ever find and investigate and decide that Ms. Maxwell would be brought up on charges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I think you’re misreading what I have written.

Epstein was accused, charged and was sent to jail in 2019. As another poster has mentioned, in 2008 Epstein was found guilty of procuring a girl for prostitution under the age of 18. So in relation to the charges put to him in 2019, he had previous offences which linked to the accusations.

I repeat for the last and final time, Andrew has never been accused, charged or investigated for anything.

Andrew does not have any kind of immunity.
There's something we need to remember. The charges that Epstein was tried and convicted of way back then and his arrest in 2019 are totally different. The 2008 case where he was tried and convicted and sentenced didn't have any kind of a hint to charges of sex trafficking. Sex trafficking was the meat and the potatoes of his 2019 arrest.

Andrew, for his part, has no bearing on the 2019 charges other than he was friends with two people that were the actual sex traffickers. Epstein and Maxwell remain the top suspected perpetrators in these alleged crimes. One is dead. The other is in hiding somewhere.

To be clear here, the charges against Epstein this year were "Financier Jeffrey Epstein was arrested in July 2019 on charges of sex trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryQueenofScots View Post
So, I take that to mean there was not enough evidence and / or inclination to proceed with a "full investigation". Not quite the same as Andrew being "cleared"?
What it means in a nutshell is that there was no indication of a need to pursue an investigation into Andrew for committing a crime. As mentioned above, at the time, Ms. Giuffre was of legal age to consent to sex in London regardless of just *how* that sex came about (if in fact, it did happen).
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2479  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:27 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,289
Not sure if posted but here is an ABC News anchor admitting how they were allegedly threatened by the palace (her words) over some interview she had 3 years ago with Virginia Roberts. Interesting watch.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/s...16801178034180
Reply With Quote
  #2480  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:39 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Not sure if posted but here is an ABC News anchor admitting how they were allegedly threatened by the palace (her words) over some interview she had 3 years ago with Virginia Roberts. Interesting watch.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/s...16801178034180
Wow, the things that allegedly went down to help cover up the Epstein and Prince Andrew story is unbelievable.
__________________

__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
abdication althorp anastasia baby names bridal gown british royal family buckingham palace chittagong clarence house diana princess of wales dna dubai duke of cambridge dutch dutch royals earl of snowdon facts future general news thread george vi gradenigo hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hill historical drama history hochberg hypothetical monarchs intro italian royal family jacobite japan jewellery list of rulers mary: crown princess of denmark mountbatten names nepalese royal jewels northern ireland norway palestine pless prince dimitri princess chulabhorn walailak princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange princess ribha queen louise queen mathilde random facts royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royalty of taiwan royal wedding royal wedding gown serbian royal family snowdon spencer family thailand thai royal family tips tracts uae customs united states of america unsubscribe wittelsbach working royals; full-time royals; part-time royals;


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:52 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×