The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Did he make money off all three films?

HA! Well you never know!

[Ista]

I have seen almost nothing on this thread since the interview that assumes Andrew's guilt. What I have seen, and what I myself have posted, is commentary about a long-standing lack of judgment in Andrew's actions, as well as an astonishing level of arrogance, lack of empathy and questionable decision-making over an extended period of time. All of that is what has created a PR disaster for him personally, and for the monarchy as an institution. While it is true that he has not been charged with a crime, his own actions and his own words have shed an extremely unflattering light on his lifestyle and his behavior. He really has no one else to blame but himself for the situation he finds himself in now. For the most part, I think the commentary on this thread has been extremely restrained, all things considered.

[Dman]

Folks, the man expressed no regrets for knowing and being associated with Jeffery Epstein and he didn’t express an ounce of empathy for any of the victims in those case and then Her Majesty The Queen is seen out riding with Andrew?

Good, Lord, some of these royals really do live on a different planet.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by MARG

I find myself feeling more than a little queasy at some of the comments made about Prince Andrew and damned angry about the swipes at my Queen. Photos of HM riding with family members come curtesy of long lenses show they are sharing the privacy of their own home.

Have you no common decency? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? What happened to, if you have nothing but gossip to rely upon you should consider where it came from?

Hang about! There is no Warrant for Andrew's arrest, there is no actual evidence available that Andrew is guilty of being anything but an arrogant prat. Yes, all these superior moralists have tried and convicted him in the absence of any shred of evidence.

So this is what the 21st Century version of the Witch Trials looks like. I can only say that after reading some of the more strident demands for Andrew to lose everything, I have visions of them screaming "off with his head" while they merrily click away with their knitting.

The Windsors don't strike me as people who stand by family members "no matter what" just because of a blood connection. The way the Duke of Windsor and especially his wife were shunned from the family tells a lot to me.



I am pretty positively convinced that, if there were actual criminal charges laid against Andrew, and if he were to stand trial, then the Queen would not be seen riding with him. In fact, Andrew would probably get the same treatment Infanta Cristina got from King Felipe VI (even though Cristina was technically acquited by the Spanish courts).



So far, my impression is that the Queen and possibly the Prince of Wales too are buying Andrew's version of the facts and siding with the opinion that he is being the victim of a witch hunt. If so, it may suggest poor political or PR judgment on the part of the senior royals, but they are neither politicians nor PR-driven celebrities.



Andrew's stepping down from royal duties and his patronages, despite happening quicker than I had predicted, was somewhat inevitable as the scandal left him in an untenable position where an increasing number of organizations were dropping him. Further distancing from the Royal House may still happen in the future if new and more serious facts arise against him (for example, evidence that he lied about certain events).

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Dman

Folks, the man expressed no regrets for knowing and being associated with Jeffery Epstein and he didn’t express an ounce of empathy for any of the victims in those case and then Her Majesty The Queen is seen out riding with Andrew?

Good, Lord, some of these royals really do live on a different planet.

No, Elizabeth the mother was out riding with her son-big difference. Andrew may be a jerk, but he is still her son.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Pranter

I'm reading on Twitter that ppl are surprised to learn that Andrew was making money off of Pitch Perfect ...I had no idea either way, but am not shocked if this is accurate.


LaRae

No, it isn't shocking.
Both Andrew and Fergie live a lavish lifestyle, with no large estates to provide massive income.

The money has to come from somewhere.

I've always heard allegations that Fergie's much-vaunted "charity" work is mainly to help subsidize her.
That doesn't surprise me either.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by Dman

Folks, the man expressed no regrets for knowing and being associated with Jeffery Epstein and he didn’t express an ounce of empathy for any of the victims in those case and then Her Majesty The Queen is seen out riding with Andrew?

Good, Lord, some of these royals really do live on a different planet.

And this is why people will keep removing their associations to him. I wouldn't hesitate ether. And frankly I would question anyone who doesn't at this point.

That said, I get HMTQ loves her son and will always support him but is anyone else surprised the front pages saw that ride as a photo op and it has not gone down well. These people are pros. They knew darn well the press would be watching them. Andrew is looking back in the shot. Staged or not... optics.

So regardless of the intention, it is just another view (and probably not well) of the family in the middle of this PR disaster.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

No, Elizabeth the mother was out riding with her son-big difference. Andrew may be a jerk, but he is still her son.

Thank you. People seem to be forgetting that other than Andrew being stupid, he’s still done nothing legally wrong.

Originally Posted by ACO

. Andrew is looking back in the shot. Staged or not... optics.

People see different things, to me Andrew’s looking down to his right where his mother is. They’re riding on private property and the lenses used to take these photos are as long range as they get. Another element of the press looking for something when there’s nothing there frankly.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

No, Elizabeth the mother was out riding with her son-big difference. Andrew may be a jerk, but he is still her son.

Yes, and some people want her to abandon him, or be so ashamed of him that she won’t take any chances of being seen in public with him - that’s over the top.

Andrew’s behavior has been loathsome, but the Duke of Windsor - outside the abdication, which was already a terrible thing - sympathized with and actively supported Hitler, who murdered 10 million people. It’s not the same thing at all....

[sndral]

Originally Posted by Nice Nofret

I saw the interview; I read and heard a lot about the Epstein-stuff.
...
If you would hold a very much know USA public figure to the same standards - he would never have made it into office, and wouldn't be there after his first tweeds!

Actually former USA labor secretary Acosta had to step down because as a U.S. atty. he engineered the sweetheart deal that dropped the original Fed charges in exchange for the slap on the wrist state charges Epstein pled to
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/u...gns-trump.html
Acosta was forced to resign from public work much as Andrew is being forced to retire from official Royal work, nether man did anything provably illegal, both demonstrated an appalling lack of judgement.

[Lady Marlboro]

This is just an observation. There has been a suggestion that the Queen could be reading Andrew the riot act during their ride. I seriously doubt that they are discussing anything more serious than the weather or the horses given that they are riding in very close quarters with two people who are not family but employees.

I think Andrew really needs to lay low for a good long while. Someone also needs to tell his ex to keep her mouth shut as she is only making things worse.

[princess carmen]

I think him stepping down is a good idea and hopefully he is gone for good. You would
think that common sense would have said , this man has been in jail I should not be associated with him. Andrew chose to put on blinders he has no one to blame but himself
for this mess. i feel for the Queen she is his mother even is she is Queen first.

[Roderick]

The hysteria, at this stage anyway, is becoming exaggerated. Prince Andrew has obviously been involved in some unsavoury activities but he has not yet been interviewed by police let alone charged with any crime, however, people are talking about him being sent into exile and even suggesting the Queen should disown her son! Andrew has stepped down from his duties but will likely still be at those annual functions the entire royal family appears for and be included at most of their private gatherings as well. This seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Madame Verseau]

Andrew's Royal Standard has been taken down from Royal Lodge

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...yal-Lodge.html

I thought Andrew has a lease or owns Royal Lodge. Does this mean he is moving out on his own or this is a royal eviction notice?

[Lumutqueen]

He has the lease and the house can only go to his widow of his daughters. So frankly there’s a more sensible reason for it not being their then him being kicked out of his own home.

[LordShiva]

If PA were smart, he'd say that Bill Clinton and Jeff Epstein were close friends, and he (PA), like Bill, didn't do anything improper or untoward. PA needs to also say that his accusers are trying to extort money from him, and that he won't succumb to their blackmail. He needs to underscore that he's for Truth, Justice, and the UK way. Finally, if he were charged w/ a crime, then Bill should be charged too.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by LordShiva

If PA were smart, he'd say that Bill Clinton and Jeff Epstein were close friends, and he (PA), like Bill, didn't do anything improper or untoward. PA needs to also say that his accusers are trying to extort money from him, and that he won't succumb to their blackmail. He needs to underscore that he's for Truth, Justice, and the UK way.

That is actually what Donald Trump for example would say if he were in Prince Andrew's situation !



But then again, Trump is far more used to being in situations like that than Andrew who, as most royals, is not terribly in tune with "the real world".

[tommy100]

The standard thing is most likely that is was taken down before all this and is no longer wanted or being repaired. As much action as the royals have taken I can't see them insisting on taking down Andrew's own standard. Even the Duke of Windsor kept his own personal standard. Even if HM and Charles had insisted it was not flown it would be pretty quick to have the flagpole down already. HM didn't seem to think or care she was pictured with Andrew so why they would think and take action about Andrew's personal standard also being in view seems odd. Just IMO.

What will be interesting is what happens now about it, will a new one be put up in time and face the DM and others saying its part of Andrew's rehabilitation or will they just keep it as nothing even if a new pole and flag was planned in time.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by tommy100

The standard thing is most likely that is was taken down before all this and is no longer wanted or being repaired. As much action as the royals have taken I can't see them insisting on taking down Andrew's own standard. Even the Duke of Windsor kept his own personal standard. Even if HM and Charles had insisted it was not flown it would be pretty quick to have the flagpole down already. HM didn't seem to think or care she was pictured with Andrew so why they would think and take action about Andrew's personal standard also being in view seems odd. Just IMO.

What will be interesting is what happens now about it, will a new one be put up in time and face the DM and others saying its part of Andrew's rehabilitation or will they just keep it as nothing even if a new pole and flag was planned in time.

The way I see it is that no matter what happens, Andrew is and always will be The Prince Andrew, Duke of York just by heredity much like Harry will always be a ginger and HM will always be known as having the affectionate terms accredited to her like "cabbage" and "Lilibet". A zebra cannot change his stripes into a leopard's spots. You made a good point here, tommy, stating that the Duke of Windsor even with the abdication behind him, remained being a Prince of the UK and a duke. Those he attained solely through birth and not by earning the honorifics.

No matter what happens with Andrew in the future, it cannot and will not change who he is and who his family is. His standard is a reflection of his hereditary position and will remain. What has changed immensely is through his own personal choice of words and actions, he's suffering from his own attitudes and arrogance and lack of connection to the situation around him and its repercussions. Lets just say Andrew has earned himself some not so nice adjectives to go before his name. Those are really what matter when it comes to reputation.

[Lady Marlboro]

There is another possibility with the standard. If it has always flown when he is in residence. with the flag pole is now gone, the press won't be able to tell if he is there or not. That will make them crazy.