The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I have to disagree. As ugly and gross as Andrew's actions and words have been, the Queen is still his mum and she loves him. They're out riding together and mother and son, not as Queen and disgraced Prince, and she shouldn't have to jump through hoops to find private moments where she can express her love and support when he needs it most.

I am surprised that the Queen approved his interview; she's so sharp and tuned in to everything, so how did she not see that this could only be a disaster for Andrew and the BRF?

I wonder when folks will finally admit that the Queen isn't as sharp as folks think and has frankly never been...IMO.

[ACO]

I don't feel sorry for The Queen when most know she has always babied Andrew. Even now she is throwing out public messages when her son in in the middle of all this drama that he did to himself. Hard to take a lot of this seriously to be honest and the respect for the institution has no doubt taken a hit.

Yes she is his mother. Yes she loves him. I get all that but the optics are still awful and that is one of the thing people drill that is important. So while she is out having a mother/son moment we have more businesses dropping this man.

The Yorks should be laying low instead of doing what they are doing.

[tommy100]

I think the optics are bad but at the end of the day this is what we are gong to get from now on, Andrew pictured privately with the Queen and family but not on official events necessarily.

At the end of the day, the Queen is his mother and its not a surprise she would still see him, you can't expect a mother to simply cut off ties with a son to please the public. As Queen, as Head of State and effectively the highest public servant in the land she has done all she can, anything else is just a mother's affection for her son even if he has done bad. TBH given how often the Queen is criticised for being a bad mother i find it odd people think her cutting him off and not speaking to him at all would be good parenting.

I'm glad if the reports about Pitch@Palace are true and Andrew is stepping aside, also glad Amanda Thirsk has gone, she's presided over years of awfulness. Yes most of it is Andrew's fault but it is her job to manage it and manage his work and in both there have been problems.

Will be interesting if its true Andrew has been told to leave his BP offices or pay rent on them, I thought things like that which are behind palace doors wouldn't be dealt with as BP would think they could get away with it.

[ACO]

I am not even saying she should drop him. That is ridiculous. But she also doesn't need to be seen having having Fergie arriving in glee and riding with Andrews hours within a statement. Like.... seriously? Might be an unpopular opinion but it just proves to me that his so called "leave" is just lip service.

Also Andrew is not walking away from Pitch@Palace. They have made it very clear to the press that he will maintain that association. Though I would imagine that within the month it won't matter because sponsors are still walking away and as long as he is tied to it they will continue.

If he were smart he would step down to they could try to savage some of the relationships but clearly his ego can't deal. So in the end Andrew will likely destroy the very initiative he helped create. And it is shame.

To think this is just the first round. We have another interview coming and who knows what that will bring. I suspect nothing good for Andrew.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

I don't see what the bolded parts have to do with anything. Andrew brought this all on himself - and sadly the BRF - by his willfulness, his sense of entitlement, and probably his notion that he was "teflon", that nothing could touch him. That's not in question. I just can't go as far as saying he doesn't need love - he's a human being, of course he needs love. I just can not support the idea of Andrew's family shunning him. They can be angry with him - furious, actually - without abandoning him not as a Prince, but as a son, brother and father.

It is times when the whole world seems to be crumbling under one's feet that a person needs love the most. Unconditional love. Its also fine to have times when a mother looks at her son and can say "I love you but I really don't like your actions very much right now. What are we going to do about it?" There is no age limit to when a child really messes things up.

The Queen is acting in a dual role where Andrew is concerned. As the prince's queen, she's had to be the "boss" and do what is best for her "Firm" and the monarchy and that involved putting Andrew "out to pasture" and out of the public eye. As his mother, of course she's not going to abandon him to a galaxy far, far away and hope the Force deals with him. I don't think any mother would do that. If there is a strong bond of love, it underlines everything not because of what a person is like or what a person has done but in *spite* of wrongdoings and actions that have brought a person to his knees.

Actions beget reactions and there's plenty of those happening in regards to Andrew's royal role and his incentives and charities and patronages. Withdrawal from association with Andrew has been swift and I really don't think Andrew's reputation could sink any lower and he's losing not only his life's work as a hard working royal (as of Nov 3rd, Andrew has had the 3rd most engagements ,with only Charles and Anne ahead of him, at 281 according to Iluvbertie's tabulations), he's also been very much under fire from the four corners of the globe.

He may be reaping what he's sown and it gives a sense of a need to take responsibility for one's own actions and words but those that do love him as a son, sibling and father, will stand with him in support and love because they know more than we do, the good qualities and characteristics that Andrew has.

Originally Posted by tommy100

Will be interesting if its true Andrew has been told to leave his BP offices or pay rent on them, I thought things like that which are behind palace doors wouldn't be dealt with as BP would think they could get away with it.

From what I understand, Andrew's office and staff will remain in BP but no longer funded by the Sovereign Grant. Word is that the Queen will fund these through her own private income from the Duchy of Lancaster. With Pitch, I believe should they need a venue for their events and fundraisers and such, they will have to rent space just as any commercial endeavor would. I don't see it being exclusively tied to royal palaces any longer as that sends the wrong message. Its just been a bit ago I've read that they've dropped the @Palace part so that's telling right there.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I wonder when folks will finally admit that the Queen isn't as sharp as folks think and has frankly never been...IMO.

But how do we know that she has not been ripping him seven ways to Sunday behind close doors? How do we know what she is saying to him on that ride?

I have never been blessed with my own children, but I have to believe that my anger and disapproval of their actions could co-exist with my love for them.

Even some serial killers have mothers who continue to love them.

It's a bond that is-and should be-the strongest one known to humans(the maternal bond)

ETA: I strongly disagree that "the Yorks" should be laying low. ANDREW should be laying low.....his daughters have no reason to hide nor should they.

[Betsypaige]

It is times when the whole world seems to be crumbling under one's feet that a person needs love the most. Unconditional love. Its also fine to have times when a mother looks at her son and can say "I love you but I really don't like your actions very much right now. What are we going to do about it?" There is no age limit to when a child really messes things up.

Yes, this is exactly my point. In their private moments, I'm sure the Queen has given her son the "what for", but you can be angry with someone and love someone dearly at the same time.

I get wanting Andrew punished - and he has been, he is - but to me it's asking for a pound of flesh to ask his own mother to distance herself from him. I venture that Charles could have used some of this support himself during the Diana years - not approval, but support. What mother wants to see her child, no matter what damage he/she has wrought, suffer? I think what Andrew needs is both a figurative slap in the face and a hug from the Queen: "I'm angry, how could you have done this to these young women, these girls? How could you say such stupid things?" and "I love you".

He may be reaping what he's sown and it gives a sense of a need to take responsibility for one's own actions and words but those that do love him as a son, sibling and father, will stand with him in support and love because they know more than we do, the good qualities and characteristics that Andrew has.

Yes......

[rob2008]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

It's a bond that is-and should be-the strongest one known to humans(the maternal bond).

HMQ is being a good mother.

"Queen shows support for Prince Andrew as they ride horses together in windsor"

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/22/queen...dsor-11202618/

[Denville]

Originally Posted by ACO

I don't feel sorry for The Queen when most know she has always babied Andrew. Even now she is throwing out public messages when her son in in the middle of all this drama that he did to himself. Hard to take a lot of this seriously to be honest and the respect for the institution has no doubt taken a hit.

Yes she is his mother. Yes she loves him. I get all that but the optics are still awful and that is one of the thing people drill that is important. So while she is out having a mother/son moment we have more businesses dropping this man.

The Yorks should be laying low instead of doing what they are doing.

yes she's his mother and she loves him.. but did she honestly think that he was not going to look bad with the interview? And her beign seen with him riding etc.. is IMO sending a message that she does not realise how appallingly he came across.. . How stupid his excuses were.. so the message she seems to be sending is that yes she had to tell him to give up his royal duties but she is still supporting him and not too bothered about the appalling way he has let her down and shown no sympathy for the victims of Epsstein's activities...

[Osipi]

I seriously have to doubt that when the Queen goes riding on the Windsor estate that she's in "Queen mode" and the pictures taken were not taken at a photo op or any kind of a public occasion. She was photographed on her own private land, during her private time doing something she loves to do (riding) with someone that has ridden with her a *lot* lately and pictured as such. Optics and "messages to the public" were probably the furthest thing from her mind at the time.

If HM, The Queen had to think of how every move, every activity and even every sneeze "seems" to the public, I think she'd have been ready for that nice white coat with sleeves and a fancy belt a long, long time ago. In this instance, I think the public opinion is way off mark and that any optics that the public holds that is negative about Andrew riding with his mother, shows a public that thinks of the Queen as a puppet on a string to "perform" as public opinion dictates.

The Queen I've come to know over the years is very, very human.

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I

From what I understand, Andrew's office and staff will remain in BP but no longer funded by the Sovereign Grant. Word is that the Queen will fund these through her own private income from the Duchy of Lancaster. With Pitch, I believe should they need a venue for their events and fundraisers and such, they will have to rent space just as any commercial endeavor would. I don't see it being exclusively tied to royal palaces any longer as that sends the wrong message. Its just been a bit ago I've read that they've dropped the @Palace part so that's telling right there.

The Times and The Telegraph are both reporting that Andrew is being forced to move his offices out of BP.

[Osipi]

I've seen that reported since I posted. Actually I think its a wise decision. Andrew's office and staff still being located at Buckingham Palace does raise questions whereas moving out totally leaves no questions to be asked. I've also seen that Andrew's private secretary, Amanda Thirsk has been given notice and will move on to chair the Pitch incentive.

All this also tells me that if Andrew was to be shelved for just a few months and then welcomed back to business as usual, a lot of what did happen wouldn't have if it was all to go back to its original state in a matter of months. I believe this is seen as a permanent retirement for Andrew when it comes to his public roles.

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I seriously have to doubt that when the Queen goes riding on the Windsor estate that she's in "Queen mode" and the pictures taken were not taken at a photo op or any kind of a public occasion. She was photographed on her own private land, during her private time doing something she loves to do (riding) with someone that has ridden with her a *lot* lately and pictured as such. Optics and "messages to the public" were probably the furthest thing from her mind at the time.

If HM, The Queen had to think of how every move, every activity and even every sneeze "seems" to the public, I think she'd have been ready for that nice white coat with sleeves and a fancy belt a long, long time ago. In this instance, I think the public opinion is way off mark and that any optics that the public holds that is negative about Andrew riding with his mother, shows a public that thinks of the Queen as a puppet on a string to "perform" as public opinion dictates.

The Queen I've come to know over the years is very, very human.

Agreed. I think in that photo she’s just a mum with her son. No one has to tell the Queen about duty and what the BRF owe the public - she’s lived all of that. She’s had to sacrifice much family (especially when Charles and Anne were young) time in favor of her responsibilities, but she’s not going to choose public image over her own son when he needs her more than ever), especially when it’s such an innocent thing - and in a private moment

[Winnie]

To me the Queen is playing, and rightly so, two different rolls now. She is Andrew's Mom and she loves him dearly but she is also the Queen of the Commonwealth and that must be protected. As none of us could ever put ourselves in her Royal position, most can put ourselves in the Mom mode. My own children horrified me on occasions with their awful choices but after yelling and letting them know that I was ashamed of their behavior, I still loved them. Plus one was Andrew's age, although she didn't do same offence, thank God. One must wonder what Anne & Tim or Edward & Sophie thinks. They just seem to get on with their schedules for Queen and country in a much quieter no nonsense way. Maybe the fact that Edward and Anne seem to have calm and happy home lives whereas Andy didn't. Fergie was always a tad wild also and she was also a friend of Epstein, etc.

I also believe that this set down on Andrew is permanent. He would do better to retire in the Caribbean somewhere and enjoy his golf. I wouldn't want to be his two daughters because no matter what they do now for their favorite charities, their father's crap deeds will be mentioned for the rest of their lives. Shame. Children always seem to "pay for the deeds of the father" in media.

[CyrilVladisla]

Has the Anglican Church of England released a statement about how the church hierarchy feels about Prince Andrew's situation?

[Osipi]

I sincerely doubt they would. This is a church that preaches "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". It would be a contradiction for the Church of England to throw any kind of stones be they negative or positive.

[Durham]

The Duke of York, a modern Greek fable of hubris followed by nemesis.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Has the Anglican Church of England released a statement about how the church hierarchy feels about Prince Andrew's situation?

If the Church of England commented every time a prominent member committed a crime/sin/whatever, they'd have no time to do what they are supposed to do.

Proclaim the Gospel.

[HereditaryPrincess]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Hopefully by the time Prince Andrew gives his daughter Princess Beatrice away on her wedding day, the press will be kinder what it writes about him.

I am sorry but someone who clearly didn't show any remorse when asked about their relationship with a convicted sex offender doesn't deserve kindness. Makes me question the morals of the people who still defend Andrew/think he's innocent Gone are the days when royals were seen as "untouchable". It's not 1719.

[Roderick]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I wonder when folks will finally admit that the Queen isn't as sharp as folks think and has frankly never been...IMO.

The Queen's sharp mind, wisdom and experience is widely acknowledged. These qualities don't always preclude errors of judgement though and whether the full details about the interview were made plain to her beforehand or on whose advice she agreed to it, we'll never know.