The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Dman

Prince Andrew has officially stepped down as Chancellor of Huddersfield University and the University will appoint their own Chancellor-
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisship...20319134752769

"The Duke has informed the University that he continues to unequivocally condemn Jeffrey Epstein’s activities and regrets his ill-judged association with him."

And here we have Andrew's PR problem in a nutshell. If he had said exactly that from at least 2010 on, he wouldn't be at this point right now. The issue is that as recently as this last weekend he clearly didn't condemn or regret anything to do with Epstein.

And the larger question is why someone at BP didn't step in months ago when it was obvious that the way Andrew was positioning himself was not going over well with the general public? It comes back to the issue that we've touched on several times in this and other threads: why is there not some kind of centralized oversight for the different royals and their PR teams that controls the messaging?

[ACO]

Andrew has also resigned as patron of the Outward Bound Trust.

Also from Russell Myers

Breaking: Reports that Prince Andrew is flying to Bahrain in the coming days to carry on working for his flagship project Pitch@Palace - 24 hours after saying he was stepping back from public duties

[Cocoasneeze]

Originally Posted by crm2317

The panel of Loose Women were discussing this topic again today.
One of the panellists, Jane Moore, commented that the royal family now appears fractured. With the reported fall-out between William and Harry and this episode with the Duke of York it no longer seems like a united group of people. That it is the beginning of the end of a monarchy in the UK after the passing of the Queen and DoE. She got a round of applause from the audience.

There actually doesn't APPEAR to be any fall out between William and Harry, except on the tabloid pages. The separation of households was simply normal occurrence, because of the brother's future roles. William is the second in line to be the king, he's not going to share staff and household with other royals. On all royal engagements, there hasn't been any signs of rifts, except, again on tabloid pages. And the tabloids want to keep this "rift" alive, because it sells stories and gives the royal reporters and experts appearances on talk shows.

The two scandals have been Philip's car accident and now this Andrew's chaos.

[Ista]

Originally Posted by ACO

Andrew has also resigned as patron of the Outward Bound Trust.

Also from Russell Myers

Breaking: Reports that Prince Andrew is flying to Bahrain in the coming days to carry on working for his flagship project Pitch@Palace - 24 hours after saying he was stepping back from public duties

Further upthread I linked to The Guardian's report that Andrew intended to continue with his Pitch@Palace work, and this confirms that that report was correct. This seems like terrible optics to me. How can he be stepping back from public duties when he is still going to be jetting about soliciting money and involvement from companies?

[Denville]

This seems to be the royal work that Andrew likes best and that's why he liked Epstein because the man gave him contacts and ways of making money, as well as girls...

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Mirabel

I disagree.
No matter what, he is still her son, and she loves him.
I don't think anyone would expect her to publicly denounce him.

I agree. Why not just order his detention in the Tower while we are at it. I mean, the guy made a monumental and stupid error. He is being publically humiliated, denounced, and may yet face legal consequences for his actions.

There is no way HMQ should be expected to denounce him publically when she never has never responded like that for any of her children and their various misdeed.

Enough already.

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I agree. Why not just order his detention in the Tower while we are at it. [emoji41]I mean, the guy made a monumental and stupid error. He is being publically humiliated, denounced, and may yet face legal consequences for his actions.



There is no way HMQ should be expected to denounce him publically when she never has never responded like that for any of her children and their various misdeed.



Enough already.

I don’t think anything any one else in the family has done comes anywhere close to what Andrew has done. He maintained a connection with a convicted pedophile after that pedophile had been found guilty. He was still staying at his home after that. He’s been accused of having sex with underage human trafficking victims.

The Queen’s Christmas speech isn’t an appropriate place for this topic and I disagree with that suggestion, but I also think this can’t be compared to anything anyone else in the family has done.

Something this serious deserves serious action and the Queen should not protect Andrew from suffering the full consequences for his actions.

[amaryllus]

Look... At this point as Parents Phillip and Elizabeth will be going through a range of Emotions: Anger at him, great disappointment, rational or irrational self blame as parents as to where they went wrong.No Normal parent wants to believe their child has such lack of moral compass and lack of basic judgment

But they love him still. Because he is their child no matter the age.

[rob2008]

It would be useful for the BRF to follow the Dutch distinction between Royal House and Royal Family. That would give clarity on which individual receives public funds and who has a public role. Harry seems keen for his son to be non-royal so the official House could include only HMQ, Philip, Charles, Camilla, William, Kate and their children. That arrangement would make sense and make it easier to regulate and monitor the wider Family in case there are future problems. The Family has to make its own way in life and they do this so well because they could not be better connected. Of course, if an individual is incompetent, he or she will not do as well out there. Organisations could seek a patron from the Family without the expectation that Prince A or Princess B would receive remuneration. That way, it would be a true mark of royal public service - and not based on personal gain.

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Look... At this point as Parents Phillip and Elizabeth will be going through a range of Emotions: Anger at him, great disappointment, rational or irrational self blame as parents as to where they went wrong.No Normal parent wants to believe their child has such lack of moral compass and lack of basic judgment

But they love him still. Because he is their child no matter the age.

Yesterday was their 72nd wedding anniversary and the day was regrettably marked by crisis and scandal due to their 2nd born.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

I don’t think anything any one else in the family has done comes anywhere close to what Andrew has done. He maintained a connection with a convicted pedophile after that pedophile had been found guilty. He was still staying at his home after that. He’s been accused of having sex with underage human trafficking victims.

The Queen’s Christmas speech isn’t an appropriate place for this topic and I disagree with that suggestion, but I also think this can’t be compared to anything anyone else in the family has done.

Something this serious deserves serious action and the Queen should not protect Andrew from suffering the full consequences for his actions.

I agree, this is worse than Charles Camillagate or anything else by far.

But "serious action" and consequences for Andrew are already taking place. Asking for his mother to publicly denounce him is a bridge too far. In her place I would not cover for him or protect him.

But I also would not turn on him in public.

[Fijiro]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Yesterday was their 72nd wedding anniversary and the day was regrettably marked by crisis and scandal due to their 2nd born.

I am sure you meant 2nd Son Prince Andrew (because 2nd born would be Princess Anne).

[Betsypaige]

Here's a new article...... It's really a sad thing. The Queen loves her son, and whatever issues they've had personally, of course Charles loves his brother. This had to be done, however - before the thing spirals completely out of control. Andrew is still a son, brother and father, but he really just can't be out there representing the BRF - it's simply too untenable.

They added: “This is not about personalities but about safeguarding the future of the institution of the monarchy itself. There could be only one conclusion… The Duke of York had to withdraw from the fray and from public life.

"It is very sad. Obviously, both the Queen and the prince love Andrew … but the health of the monarchy is too important to risk.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/s...-a4292781.html

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Ista

"The Duke has informed the University that he continues to unequivocally condemn Jeffrey Epstein’s activities and regrets his ill-judged association with him."

And here we have Andrew's PR problem in a nutshell. If he had said exactly that from at least 2010 on, he wouldn't be at this point right now. The issue is that as recently as this last weekend he clearly didn't condemn or regret anything to do with Epstein.

And the larger question is why someone at BP didn't step in months ago when it was obvious that the way Andrew was positioning himself was not going over well with the general public? It comes back to the issue that we've touched on several times in this and other threads: why is there not some kind of centralized oversight for the different royals and their PR teams that controls the messaging?

I completely agree. With a decent PR team and more centralized oversight the current disaster could easily have been avoided.

[irish_royalist]

Originally Posted by crm2317

The panel of Loose Women were discussing this topic again today.
One of the panellists, Jane Moore, commented that the royal family now appears fractured. With the reported fall-out between William and Harry and this episode with the Duke of York it no longer seems like a united group of people. That it is the beginning of the end of a monarchy in the UK after the passing of the Queen and DoE. She got a round of applause from the audience.

I disagree with this opinion - the British Royal Family have survived worse than this. At times of great national pride, or sorrow, the people of the UK turn to the Royal Family. I don't think that will change. The United Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, with the likes of Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn as its Head of State, is an anathema to most citizens of the UK.
Prince Andrew, and his ex-wife, must now disappear from public life.
The death of the Duke of Edinburgh, and even more so of The Queen, will reignite our faith in this family as our Head of State, rather than dampen it.
I do agree however, that some slimming down needs to happen - some Royals are suited to a life of service, and some are not. Those who are not, need to be relieved of their duties, and their privileges.

[sndral]

Originally Posted by Ista

The Guardian is reporting that Andrew intends to continue to work with Pitch@Palace:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nt-at-subpoena


I am shaking my head at the yet another tone deaf decision. It's beginning to feel like the wheels really are coming off the bus.

So it’s going to be business as usual for Andrew, they’ve just relabeled it - now he’s not doing it as an official ‘Royal,’ however his office at BP will still remain & arrange all, his protection officers will still accompany him to Bahrain and elsewhere at taxpayer expense, etc. to enable him to mingle with the rich and famous. Very bad optics, IMO, it seems Andrew was disingenuous when he said he’d be stepping back from public duties, apparently he meant he’d be carrying on business as usual w/ whomever was still willing to have him just under a different label.

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acked-him.html
Terrible, just terrible.

And then Fergies role in all that. Makes something terrible even worse.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Palace.html
Step 1: Both of them have to absolutely vanish from public life now. But they won't, it's not in their overinflated DNA.

[rob2008]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acked-him.html
Terrible, just terrible.

And then Fergies role in all that. Makes something terrible even worse.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Palace.html
Step 1: Both of them have to absolutely vanish from public life now. But they won't, it's not in their overinflated DNA.

One would not wish Andrew to disappear permanently - if he could only learn from his mother to be a kinder person.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

I don’t think anything any one else in the family has done comes anywhere close to what Andrew has done. He maintained a connection with a convicted pedophile after that pedophile had been found guilty. He was still staying at his home after that. He’s been accused of having sex with underage human trafficking victims.

The Queen’s Christmas speech isn’t an appropriate place for this topic and I disagree with that suggestion, but I also think this can’t be compared to anything anyone else in the family has done.

Something this serious deserves serious action and the Queen should not protect Andrew from suffering the full consequences for his actions.

This is all very, very true. However, I do think it's important to remember that accused does not mean proven or convicted. I agree that the evidence is damning and I completely and totally see how awful this all looks both for Andrew personally and for the institution as a whole. That said, no matter how damning it appears, accused does not mean convicted. While stepping away was the right thing to do whether of his own volition or under order from HM, we have to be careful about tarring and feathering without a conviction or irrefutable proof to hang our hats on.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Ista

The Guardian is reporting that Andrew intends to continue to work with Pitch@Palace:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nt-at-subpoena


I am shaking my head at the yet another tone deaf decision. It's beginning to feel like the wheels really are coming off the bus.

Originally Posted by Zaira

I have honestly been amazed at the all over the place information. Each paper and reporter has a different understanding about what is going on and what will happen. For example, last I read this morning (!!) is that Pitch@Palace was going to be moved to either another royal or into a separate entity from Andrew.

This has been disproven already,

https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...622359552?s=21

Originally Posted by Minister of Court

The Queen should denounce him publicly in her Christmas speech.

Oh you are funny, this thread needed a good laugh.

[An Ard Ri]

Its the dukes 2 daughters I really feel sorry for .