Sarah and Eugenie: Documentary on Turkish Orphanages - November 2008

[rmay286]

No, I'm not American. I'm not very knowledgeable about the monarchy, but probably more so than most Canadians. Nevertheless, I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what Beatrice and Eugenie can possibly do that would be considered a worthwhile contribution to the monarchy, besides dressing nicely and being the guest of honour at an occasional function, planting a tree here and there, cutting ribbons... My perspective is that Beatrice and Eugenie, as much as they are royal, are also part of their generation. Many young people today feel like they have many opportunities to travel, study different subjects, have new experiences. Whenever Beatrice and Eugenie try to do any of these things, it's frowned upon. If they stay at home and party with their peers, they're being useless. If they step out and visit a cancer clinic but do it with Sarah, Sarah shouldn't be there. If they go abroad to see a less privileged side of the world, it's too political (I won't disagree but it's an illustration of how limited their choices are.) If they travel the world to gain new experiences, it's a waste of taxpayer money. If they follow their dad around on a business trip, people call it a vacation (how many eighteen year-old girls really think a trip with a few hours here and there spent shadowing their dad on his boring job is a 'vacation'?)

And THEY CAN'T DRESS RIGHT!

But seriously, Beatrice and Eugenie have wealth and privilege and probably think they can use this both for pleasure and to impact the world in some way, and no matter which way they turn, it seems they're frowned on. Some people might be happy to live the dutiful life of a working royal, doing the same limited tasks, playing it safe and being discreet, for the rest of their lives. It's a way of life that definitely suits the Queen. But if Beatrice and Eugenie have anything of Sarah's personality, will it suit them?

 

[Mandy]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but I think this whole political-taboos controversy was started to deflect attention from Sarah's well-intentioned visit to the Turkey orphanage.

From past experience, most of Sarah's charity events discussion usually have started with fairly decent comments and then followed with some spiteful posts which have generally served to detract from the main issue. So why shouldn't this time be any different?

As a mother, I don't believe that Sarah would involve her daughters in some kind of political game for publicity or whatever. This is a side of life one would normally teach one's children about. I have to give her credit for her charitable work and I believe it was up to her PR people to check out the political ramifications about this trip. That's why she pays them.

 

[iceflower]

Sarah Ferguson the Duchess of York appears on 'Breakfast' to discuss the
documentary she made with her daughters Beatrice and Eugenie about the
poor treatment of disabled children in Turkey. 'A Tonight special - Duchess
and daughters: their secret mission' will be broadcast tonight on ITV1.
Shown on BBC1 England - 06.11.08

------> Pic

 

[Warren]

Well, the documentary has certainly had an impact. There was a lengthy story on our TV news tonight (Network 10) showing some of the footage of the mistreated children with observations and comments by Eugenie and Sarah. In many respects the impact is similar to the uproar over the Romanian orphanages about ten or so years ago.

 

[iceflower]

Pics 6.11.2008

There was a short report in German televison (ZDF) as well, I
did not see it myself, but was told, that it's been really impressing
and touching to see.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but I think this whole political-taboos controversy was started to deflect attention from Sarah's well-intentioned visit to the Turkey orphanage.

Mandy, did you see then programme? I unfortunately didn't but I've seen similar programmes here in Germany. Rumanian orphanages already have received a lot of help from the Eu and EU countries, I've seen reports that the situation is slowly changing from the appalling situation at the end of communism to today where at least some help is offered.

My problem with Sarah's trip is that she deceived the people working in these orphanages. I don't think these people are sadists and enjoy the way the children are treated, I believe they have to make do with what they get. So when somebody turns up appearing to be a potential donor, of course their interest is to show the worst case scenario in order to get as much as possible. I wouldn't put it beyond any TV-team to even give staff at such an orphanage hints that showing the situation at its worst will help them in the end - it's not only the celebrity paps who use such methods to get pictures that sell well: the worse the situation, the greater the shock and public interest. We know that this was what the report aimed at. I wonder how the people working in these orphanages think about this report. For their position as state employees who have been shown in that way to the world surely gets more difficult. And somehow I doubt Sarah is going to make up for that through actually starting a charity for the benefit of these homes and children. In most cases documentary makers are content to have "alerted" the public to a problem and don't feel responsible for solving it.

For my taste Sarah and her daughters are already too much involved with the media. We've had Sarah teaching about eating healthy on cooking cabbage and now we see her exposing state-run orphanages -what's next?

 

[Menarue]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but I think this whole political-taboos controversy was started to deflect attention from Sarah's well-intentioned visit to the Turkey orphanage.

From past experience, most of Sarah's charity events discussion usually have started with fairly decent comments and then followed with some spiteful posts which have generally served to detract from the main issue. So why shouldn't this time be any different?

As a mother, I don't believe that Sarah would involve her daughters in some kind of political game for publicity or whatever. This is a side of life one would normally teach one's children about. I have to give her credit for her charitable work and I believe it was up to her PR people to check out the political ramifications about this trip. That's why she pays them.

Mandy, I don´t think that the problem is about Sarah being a mother and involving her daughters in whatever, they are, royal princesses who have belonged to the royal family from the day of their birth. Sarah´s PR people do not advise the royal family on what is done and what not is done. It may be, and is, a good thing to show up atrocities in foreign countries - if there is going to be a follow up.
The activities of the Princesses, whether well meant or not have to be approved by the Palace and whoever.
Another point, if Sarah and her crew got into the place on false pretenses by promisiing help or even money, it would be unacceptably cruel if this is not forthcoming.
I don´t believe that this cruel behaviour has come about for any other reason than lack of money, they can´t employ specialised people, state of the art installations or even enough personnel to take care of these poor people. I should imagine that the idea of someone visiting with the promise of financial help must have been a ray of hope for them.
There is a saying in Portugal that goes more or less like this "a promise made to a poor man is sacred".
Let the Duchess go where she wants to with her do-gooding the only problem is with taking the princess(es) and the motive for doing so.

 

[Mandy]

If you have proof about about Sarah pretending to offer money or whatever, please post it, otherwise, I believe it's called speculation or even libel especially if it hasn't happened.

 

[Skydragon]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but I think this whole political-taboos controversy was started to deflect attention from Sarah's well-intentioned visit to the Turkey orphanage.

Not at all, it is a fact of life for members of the Royal Family, hence some of the headlines in the UK press in recent years accusing Charles of meddling.

From past experience, most of Sarah's charity events discussion usually have started with fairly decent comments and then followed with some spiteful posts which have generally served to detract from the main issue. So why shouldn't this time be any different?

Possibly they have, I don't see many 'spiteful posts' directed at Sarah in this thread.

As a mother, I don't believe that Sarah would involve her daughters in some kind of political game for publicity or whatever. This is a side of life one would normally teach one's children about. I have to give her credit for her charitable work and I believe it was up to her PR people to check out the political ramifications about this trip. That's why she pays them.

But I would hope that you would not be out partying with cocaine users, with your child/children either. I don't see any suggestion (apart from my tongue in cheek one) about Sarah using either girl for political games, she has in the past lived off the back of their rank. (US programme re reported on here by another poster). Sarah is an adult, she didn't need advisors to tell her what she as a former daughter in law of the monarch should have known, that the Royal Family do not become involved in politics. There are many charities/tv programmes/visits Sarah is involved in, why choose this visit to involve her daughters?

If HM did give permission for this involvement, then serious questions need to be asked by our duly elected politicians.

 

[Skydragon]

If you have proof about about Sarah pretending to offer money or whatever, please post it, otherwise, I believe it's called speculation or even libel especially if it hasn't happened.

As I said, she was granted access because the people in charge were led to believe that she was a potential wealthy benefactor. However, Sarah, on camera promised to build/support a village, whether the Turkish authorities will allow that now, remains to be seen!

 

[Jo of Palatine]

If you have proof about about Sarah pretending to offer money or whatever, please post it, otherwise, I believe it's called speculation or even libel especially if it hasn't happened.

From the Guardian:Turkish government angered by ITV orphanage report | Media | guardian.co.uk

"The footage was filmed by members of Ferguson's entourage posing as potential wealthy donors."

So offering help obviously was their entry ticket into the institution.

Another quote from the article:
"
The Turkish government has already responded angrily to the programme with a number of Turkish politicians accusing the programme makers of seeking to jeopardise the country's chances of joining the European Union. Turkey began membership negotiations in October 2005.
Nimet Cubukcu, a minister in charge of women and family affairs, told Turkey's Anatolian news agency: "It is obvious that Sarah Ferguson is ill-intentioned and is trying to launch a smearing campaign against Turkey by opposing Turkey's EU membership."
However, ITV hit back at the claims, with a spokeswoman insisting: "This is a valid area of public interest at a time when the UK government is endorsing the accession of Turkey into the EU, a process which is conditional in part on Turkey improving its human rights record with children."



So for ITv obviously there was a political aim behind filming and transmitting this documentary - even if Sarah claims her daughters were there as "private citizens".

 

[Skydragon]

No, I'm not American.

Sorry about that!

I'm not very knowledgeable about the monarchy, but probably more so than most Canadians. Nevertheless, I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what Beatrice and Eugenie can possibly do that would be considered a worthwhile contribution to the monarchy, besides dressing nicely and being the guest of honour at an occasional function, planting a tree here and there, cutting ribbons... snipped.....
But seriously, Beatrice and Eugenie have wealth and privilege and probably think they can use this both for pleasure and to impact the world in some way, and no matter which way they turn, it seems they're frowned on. Some people might be happy to live the dutiful life of a working royal, doing the same limited tasks, playing it safe and being discreet, for the rest of their lives. It's a way of life that definitely suits the Queen. But if Beatrice and Eugenie have anything of Sarah's personality, will it suit them?

They do not have to seek jobs as undercover reporters, nor did their mother. Fact finding missions such as this did not need Sarah or her daughters to be there, if it was anything less than publicity for Sarah, this is what would have happened. Can we smell the excrement any better because Sarah and her daughters told us they could smell it, taste it, if anything many will say 'what would they know'! Beatrice, Eugenie and Sarah could raise funding for projects that need it as Sarah promised to to do from the childrens charity she founded(?) in New York, they can do that no matter what country they are domiciled in.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

First of all it's a good thing to point at such terrible conditions. The only thing I don't like about it is that members of the royal family are involved ... Sarah should have known better.

Sarah can do what she wants, she is not a member of the royal family anymore, she does advertising etc etc anyway and if she now choses to become an activist or campaigner for whatever like countless celebrities do, fine with me. But she should keep everything only related to HERSELF, not involving her daughters, ex-husband or even HM.

Tricking people is not nice but sometimes the end justifies the means, especially when it's about improving conditions for humans or animals suffering from undeserving conditions.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

even if Sarah claims her daughters were there as "private citizens".

That's a joke and that is what angers me about this story and Sarah's attitude - her daughters are NOT private citizens, being royal is not like a coat you can wear or take off as you like and nobody should know better than Sarah.

The Yorks had the option to make their children private citizens - same as the Princess Royal's children - and take away their HRH's but chose not to - fine but then please stick to the rules and live up to the expectation people have on their ROYALS who should stay away from POLITICS.

 

[Menarue]

Wealthy donors do what? Or should I say, what do the poor think they are going to do? Soon it is going to be the poor gullible people who let them in being blamed. They are struggling to make do on nothing and someone disguised as a wealthy visitor perhaps donor appears and they let them in. Shame on them. I really dislike this kind of slum sight-seeing by the rich and privileged.
If someone really wants to help I think it would be very easy to do this without the photo opportunities and controversy. Can anyone tell me the name of the place she went to? Did it stick in your mind? Or does the name Sarah Duchess of York come to mind first.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

If someone really wants to help I think it would be very easy to do this without the photo opportunities and controversy. Can anyone tell me the name of the place she went to? Did it stick in your mind? Or does the name Sarah Duchess of York come to mind first.

About the Romanian orphanages the articles said that already two girls from the UK have worked for years there and formed a charity in order to change the situation and that Sarah went to visit them there. Were they even featured in the documentary? About the Turkish institution it was said in the papers that the authorities at the moment are already building new and smaller units in order to change the situation for the better following the example of Romania.

I mean: honestly - it is terrible that children have to live under such circumstances. But we here in Germany read regularily reports about the bad situation in some of our own orphanages, about how badly mistreated some children are in foster care, how elderly people are neglected in foster homes. A friend of mine, a doctor, works for years to better the situation when it comes to decubitus wounds due to not enough care/movement for immobile patients and this is a real problem even here in one of the richest states in the world. So it makes no sense pointing with a finger at Romania or Turkey when neglect is around anywhere.

And it makes me really angry that the same girls who point with their finger at the situation in poor countries the next night have dinner with their mom in a fancy restaurant before spending enormous amounts on drinks in an equally posh nightclub.

Did we ever see pics of Madeleine of Sweden enjoying a celebrity lifestyle in New York while working for UNICEF 9 to 5? She worked and kept a low profile. Applause for that. It is so pathetic seeing these posh princesses of York talking about the stench, the dirt, the neglect while enjoying their privileged lifestyle on probably hoping to become a "face" on TV through their endeavours into media-land.

 

[Menarue]

Good post Jo. Exactly what I, and I believe a lot of other people are thinking.

 

[Bella]

A lovely but American view of the monarchy.

No offense meant but most Americans could care less about monarchy, anywhere. The idea of paying someone to be better than you just because of the fate of birth is viewed as more than just a bit ridiculous and outdated. I think most Americans would give kudos to Pss B & E for being a part of exposing the horrors of these orphanages than to a royal who goes around smiling and waving and cutting ribbons. Most Americans wonder why you Brits still have a Royal Family, but that's a subject for another thread.

 

[Bella]

Has anything really altered for the children in the earlier programmes, a few, most have lived and died in the same orphanages.

I understand this is reality, but it is very very sad.

 

[Bella]

Sarah Ferguson the Duchess of York appears on 'Breakfast' to discuss the
documentary she made with her daughters Beatrice and Eugenie about the
poor treatment of disabled children in Turkey. ------> Pic

She actually looks a bit like Pss B in this photo. Thanks, Ice.

 

[Menarue]

No offense meant but most Americans could care less about monarchy, anywhere.

You have just confirmed something that I have suspected for a long time, in fact from way back in the days of the Duchess of Windsor, some (and the emphasis is on some) Americans just do not understand what royalty and tradition mean to British people and never will so why try?

 

[iceflower]

Here's a gallery with lots of pics of the documentary:

Sarah, Eugenie and Beatrice on their special mission

 

[Mermaid1962]

Oh, I agree with you absolutely about all the criticism directed toward Eugenie and Beatrice. I think that much of it is unfair.

But seriously, Beatrice and Eugenie have wealth and privilege and probably think they can use this both for pleasure and to impact the world in some way, and no matter which way they turn, it seems they're frowned on. Some people might be happy to live the dutiful life of a working royal, doing the same limited tasks, playing it safe and being discreet, for the rest of their lives. It's a way of life that definitely suits the Queen. But if Beatrice and Eugenie have anything of Sarah's personality, will it suit them?

The Queen does a lot more in her working life than the things you've mentioned, but those things aren't publicized much because they're confidential: i.e. her meetings with the Prime Minister and her review of government papers, for example. That sort of life takes a huge amount of self-discipline.

 

[Skydragon]

The opinions given are my own, unless I have specifically stated otherwise!

I have just watched the 2nd part of this programme, (an update) but on the whole it was a shortened repeat of any of the emotive parts and questioning of the Turkish and Romanian Ministers. IMO, Chris Rogers was more intent on appearing more knowledgeable than he actually was, with lots of lip pursing and repeating the same thing again and again. The Human Rights lawyer came out with his personal opinion rather than about any laws being broken.

As some of you know, I have a very poor opinion of psychologists, based purely on dealings with them with regard to some of the wonderful children and young adults I have met. Again he seemed to be without some of the facts regarding children and young adults with some mental disabilities. They all kept stating that it is because of institutionalization that these children rocked or flapped their hands, especially when the attention was turned away from them. Autistic children/young adults will rock and flap their hands when under pressure, such as when they meet strangers.

I am not excusing some of the conditions shown just pointing out that if that is the criteria upon which you are basing a programme, at least be seen to do some research.

I have not changed my mind with regard to the wisdom of involving Beatrice and Eugenie, they did not add to the programme, in fact they probably detracted from it, making it entertainment rather than fact based and hard hitting. There was no statement/comment that it was done with anyone other than Sarah and the 'young royals' permission. Ministers from both countries have said they are trying to improve the quality of accommodation, care and staff, (It would seem that as with the UK, care of the mentally ill is not seen as the job the majority of people aspire to).

 

[Skydragon]

About the Romanian orphanages the articles said that already two girls from the UK have worked for years there and formed a charity in order to change the situation and that Sarah went to visit them there. Were they even featured in the documentary? About the Turkish institution it was said in the papers that the authorities at the moment are already building new and smaller units in order to change the situation for the better following the example of Romania.

A 4-5 minute slot!

I mean: honestly - it is terrible that children have to live under such circumstances. But we here in Germany read regularily reports about the bad situation in some of our own orphanages, about how badly mistreated some children are in foster care, how elderly people are neglected in foster homes. A friend of mine, a doctor, works for years to better the situation when it comes to decubitus wounds due to not enough care/movement for immobile patients and this is a real problem even here in one of the richest states in the world. So it makes no sense pointing with a finger at Romania or Turkey when neglect is around anywhere.

And it makes me really angry that the same girls who point with their finger at the situation in poor countries the next night have dinner with their mom in a fancy restaurant before spending enormous amounts on drinks in an equally posh nightclub.

Did we ever see pics of Madeleine of Sweden enjoying a celebrity lifestyle in New York while working for UNICEF 9 to 5? She worked and kept a low profile. Applause for that. It is so pathetic seeing these posh princesses of York talking about the stench, the dirt, the neglect while enjoying their privileged lifestyle on probably hoping to become a "face" on TV through their endeavours into media-land.

Once again, I have to agree with your comments.

 

[Russophile]

No offense meant but most Americans could care less about monarchy, anywhere.

Too true this comment! Mr. Russo always gives me that "look" whenever I talk about the Windsors or the Romanovs. You know, the one where you want to check your teeth to see if there's a chunk of spinach left in them from the salad you ate earlier or a good swipe of your nose to make sure there's no ugly green boogie sticking out or hanging off a nostril hair.
I think a new approach could be taken in regards to these foreign orphanages. Obviously, these children aren't going to be adopted any time soon so why not make the best of it and help them create things to sell to make conditions better instead of relying upon charity. They need skills when they grow to be able to support themselves, why not start here and now with these children?
Ah! Friday! Russo's excited about rum and pure sugar cane cokes!!

 

[udyusa]

Beautiful, Russo! My husband gives me the same look but I Really dooo love the royals....well, certain ones but I still love the fairy tale.

 

[Skydragon]

Russo, you are completely???? revolting!

The trouble with the majority of the children shown is that they are profoundly mentally handicapped, whether they all were when they were sent there is unknown in many of the cases shown, but I believe (and only from watching them on screen) that quite a few of the ones shown would have been in specialist homes here. Of the few who were shown, I think unless you could be hands on, one on one, the chances of them looking after themselves or working are remote. Many children in a like for like state (again based on what I saw on screen) are lucky to be placed into the few special units left, most private, the unlucky ones are subject to 'care in the community', unfortunately the community doesn't care!

 

[Russophile]

Russo, you are completely???? revolting!

Well that's too bad they can't do anything for them. Where does TPR Save the Children fund come in? Or does it apply to this situation at all?

 

[ysbel]

And it makes me really angry that the same girls who point with their finger at the situation in poor countries the next night have dinner with their mom in a fancy restaurant before spending enormous amounts on drinks in an equally posh nightclub.

Sorry Jo, but I don't follow your line of reasoning. I can endeavour to help those more unfortunate than I am but does that mean I have to eat gruel in an unheated tent at night? I think not.

Sarah and her daughters don't need any guilt trip about how much they have whenever they try to help the unfortunate.

However, royal is royal. The Queen has pledged to stay out of politics and if the royals in her name dabble in it; it undercuts her ability to be impartial. The Queen may have to host the Turkish leaders at a State Dinner one day and having British royal princesses participate in a clandestine uncovering of the conditions brought on by the Turkish government compromises the Queen's ability to act as host of the British nation for any and all government leaders that the British government decides she should welcome.

Politics is a rather messy business and the more the royals dabble in it, the more it undercuts the Queen's role.