Sarah and Eugenie: Documentary on Turkish Orphanages - November 2008

[EchoLynn]

Those jerks are just upset that she outted their abuse of the children. Don't know about you people, but I'm going to pray for her and the kids. The UK would be stupid to hand her over, though thankfully that seems unlikly.

 

[NGalitzine]

^^^^
Possibly but another school of thought might say it could be good for diplomatic relations. Western nations are always talking about their values, and saying that people who come to the west must respect our values and laws, so the other side of the coin would be that if you travel to the east you must respect their values/laws which Sarah was apparently in violation of.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It seems as if Sarah is also being targeted and not the producers of the programme.

What I expect will happen very soon is that the documentary will appear on TV - just what Turkey wants - the world to see again the way they treat children in orphanages - counter-productive from Turkey's point of view (most people had already forgotten abou the documentary but now it is front page news).

One thing Sarah will have to check in future is the attitude of any country she visits in relation to Turkey - if she lands in a country friendly with Turkey she could be arrested and extradited from there - not just from the UK. One side effect could easily be that Sarah has to remain in the UK for the foreseeable future.

 

[FergieFan]

Sarah charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film

Duchess of York charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film - Telegraph

Poor Sarah! There she was trying to help children, to expose abuses and do some good in the world, and this is what she gets.
The UK press are playing up the prison sentence angle, but according to a BBC report I heard, there is absolutely no chance of that, and they would be very unlikely even to request extradition, and since her "crime" is not a crime in the UK, they couldn't hand her over.
So why are the turkish authorities doing this? It will only remind people of shocking abuses in their orphanage system that were forgotten by most people.
And Sarah has to deal with negative headlines that are in no sense her fault! No doubt people will argue that she should have known better than to get involved etc., but this was under the auspices of the Uk's biggest commercial TV network, and I think Sarah could reasonably assume that they would take care of legal matters.
I know many people take a very different view to me on the cash for access story, but surely even sarah's critics have to aknowledge that she is not in the wrong here. This seems to me to be a vindictive and unneccessary legal proceeding.

 

[Kataryn]

Duchess of York charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film - Telegraph

Poor Sarah! There she was trying to help children, to expose abuses and do some good in the world, and this is what she gets.
The UK press are playing up the prison sentence angle, but according to a BBC report I heard, there is absolutely no chance of that, and they would be very unlikely even to request extradition, and since her "crime" is not a crime in the UK, they couldn't hand her over.
So why are the turkish authorities doing this? It will only remind people of shocking abuses in their orphanage system that were forgotten by most people.
And Sarah has to deal with negative headlines that are in no sense her fault! No doubt people will argue that she should have known better than to get involved etc., but this was under the auspices of the Uk's biggest commercial TV network, and I think Sarah could reasonably assume that they would take care of legal matters.
I know many people take a very different view to me on the cash for access story, but surely even sarah's critics have to aknowledge that she is not in the wrong here. This seems to me to be a vindictive and unneccessary legal proceeding.

Hm... I agree with you that the topic was and is an important one. And to report about it means taking legal risks. Which is what reporters do all the time and they have to deal with the consequences as well. For Turkey it's easy: it was illegal and Sarah gave her celebrity status to thos ereports, thus she is the one to be charged. Especially as she brought Royal princesses into this, which can't be touched by the Turkish authorities.

As for the British side: who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Maybe this affair was not diplomatically solved by the British in order to have a leverage against Sarah in Jubilee Year? Her staying out of the limelight in exchange for HM's servant's help?

For Sarah must be careful now: if Turkey requests her presence at court by issuing an international warrant, then of course she won't be extradicted by the Uk. But I doubt she will get future visa for the US and must carefully check if a country she wants to travel to has an extradiction policy with Turkey, she must make sure that she doesn't use planes that fly over Turkey to Asia in case there is an emergency... stuff like that. Not really serious problems, but very, very bothersome.

 

[Duchessmary]

This is totally blown out of proportion, and I'm sure the Turkish government is not amused being caught red-handed allowing this type of abuse in their orphanages. Sarah may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer at times, but I feel she genuinely cares about the fate of children world wide. I think more of this type of investigating needs to be done, consequences be damned.
Just my opinion.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I doubt there will be any serious or meaningful push for extradition, beyond Turkey's own posturing. While it's good for Sarah to be concerned about political issues, I consider it both foolhardy and somewhat grandiose for her to become involved in Turkey. Some people spend a lifetime in activism in this area, and really know the ropes - what Sarah brought to the project (I presume) is her name - and her notion of her name.

I think NGalitzine is right when she says this will give Sarah more interviews - and it seems to me she wants her name out there so much, she continues to be willing to do...dipsy things to do it. This was supposed to make her look responsible? It's really very much in line with some of her major gaffes (not well thought through, strong possibility that problems will arise, etc., etc.)

Every country has rules about what can and can't be filmed or studied inside its borders. Undercover journalism is dangerous business. Whoever conceived this project is unethical, as Sarah is not a journalist and doesn't know the basics of journalistic ethics - or methods.

There are already many documentaries (not famous ones of course) about this situation - Sarah would have done well to perhaps re-do the narration on them, or get permission to compile them into a new documentary (with her name on it) if she wanted to stay out of various kinds of trouble.

Which she doesn't. She likes looking "edgy." I just wish she wouldn't drag her kids into it. Not cool.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Good observations, PrincessKaimi. We've grown accustomed to how Sarah conducts her life and her interests, but when she starts including her daughters into the mix, this is another story. They're still at the age where they're impressionable and might do anything to help their mom out, even if it's not in their best interests to do so.

 

[blauerengel]

It looks like Sarah's wearing dark contacts as well as a wig. What puts me off somewhat is that Sarah's documentary is entitled "Duchess and Daughters: Their Secret Mission." Just the title gives me the impression that it's more focused on her rather than the dire conditions she filmed. I think it could have been better titled. And this is just a terrible situation that's unfortunately backfired and I hope this will be resolved without negative publicity, especially on Beatrice. It's a shame that in an effort to expose the bad conditions under which these children are living, the spotlight is back on Sarah.

I agree with you,but nevertheless the most important issue is to protect human rights and making sure that every human being is treated with respect and dignity.If her documentation helps to change the lives of orphans for the better, I can accept that she is only doing it for her PR-strategy.The condition of freedom of speech is very alarming in Turkey,in the past many intellectuals,reporters and artists have been jailed for criticising the government and/or mentioning human rights violations and discrimination of Kurdish people in Turkey.It is a topic that needs to be taken seriously,because if we accept and don´t speak up against injustice,the situation will gradually become worse...
I am not a fan of the Duchess,but getting 22 years in prison for "violating the privacy of the children" is just absolutely absurd.

 

[Baroness of Books]

I do agree with your sentiments, and if Sarah used her title and her daughters in the documentary title as a PR strategy to attract more attention to a serious issue then of course it's an effective tactic if it gets the message across. A means to an end, if you will, to focus on terrible wrongdoing. It's just unfortunate that Sarah had consistently used her name and connections as a self-aggrandizement tactic to benefit herself, and it tends to make one question her motives. One can only be optimistic that in this case, she's trodding a more altruistic path with the best of intentions. I'm also concerned about the impact on her daughters and their implication in this situation.

 

[Lady Marlboro]

Here is something I don't understand - supposedly Sarah and Andrew both want the two girls to become working royals and the palace officials are very much against this idea. How could Sarah put her daughters in this position if she wants them to be working royals. This is just the kind of thing that will be the main arguement as to why there is no way on this Earth they will ever be allowed to represent the Queen.

Is this just another case of Sarah not thinking?

 

[Iluvbertie]

This was over three years ago. At that time the expectation was they wouldn't be working royals had been around for about a decade - late 1990s actually.

They were never going to be full time royals as Charles never wanted them - and he has a large say, and increasingly so does William, as they are the future.

Andrew had a pipe dream but his older brother simply never wanted them to be in that role - as Charles has been advocating a smaller working royal family for years. Andrew has been fighting a loosing battle since the late 90s on this issue, even though the public haven't been fully aware of this until more recent years - as the girls approach working ages.

Sarah couldn't have taken the girls to Turkey without both Andrew and the Queen's consent so it is reasonable to assume that they had some idea of what was happening - even if they didn't know all the details - they would have known something. Eugenie was still under age at the time remember - she was 17.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

Knowing that Sarah wanted to make a trip to Turkey with her princess daughter is one thing; knowing Sarah would play undercover reporter «à la James Bond» and break Turkish law is quite another thing!

 

[MARG]

Knowing that Sarah wanted to make a trip to Turkey with her princess daughter is one thing; knowing Sarah would play undercover reporter «à la James Bond» and break Turkish law is quite another thing!

That is what she went to Turkey and Roumania to do, expose the maltreatment of children, and you don't get to tell the real story with a large retinue of camera crew and watchers.

I am sure that both the Queen and Andrew were aware of the reason for the trip.

 

[NGalitzine]

I am sure that both the Queen and Andrew were aware of the reason for the trip.

I somehow doubt that. The Queen at least would have understood that it would be involving a member of the royal family in the domestic affairs of a foreign nation.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Exactly how is anyone sure that the Queen and the Prince knew about this?

Sarah has been known to do all manner of things she ought not to, and should have sought permission for.

Where is it published that she asked permission for her daughter to travel? In general, if the child has a passport (and Eugenie does), the person can travel outside of Britain - all they'd have to have done is leave Britain (possibly by flying directly to Turkey, but in this case, since they wanted to be "undercover") it's likely they chose some other method (indeed, disguising herself after entering Turkey under proper identity would be the only legal method of travel - and that would be true for both of them).

It's possible that a father's permission would be sought for an underage child to travel internationally (but possible not within the Eurozone - I don't know). At any rate, I wouldn't be so certain that Sarah did things the proper way.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Sarah could easily have said that they were going to Turkey on a holiday. It wouldn't have set off any alarms, because both Sarah and Andrew are known to like to vacation in exotic places. Had the real reason for the trip been known, I don't think that Eugenie would have been allowed to go--or Sarah for that matter. Even though Sarah wasn't a member of the BRF at the time, she still would have involved the Queen by virtue of her being the mother to the princess and having "Duchess of York" as part of her name. The monarchy in the UK survives because it's not political and doesn't get directly involved with other nations' business.

 

[Osipi]

Sarah could easily have said that they were going to Turkey on a holiday. It wouldn't have set off any alarms, because both Sarah and Andrew are known to like to vacation in exotic places. Had the real reason for the trip been known, I don't think that Eugenie would have been allowed to go--or Sarah for that matter. Even though Sarah wasn't a member of the BRF at the time, she still would have involved the Queen by virtue of her being the mother to the princess and having "Duchess of York" as part of her name. The monarchy in the UK survives because it's not political and doesn't get directly involved with other nations' business.

I would imagine though that the powers that be knew exactly where Eugenie was going because at that time I believe she had full protection officers by her side around the clock. I really don't think it would be possible for her to have gone anywhere "under the radar" as a princess of the UK.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I think that the intent of the trip might have been a secret until after Sarah and Eugenie left the UK. Perhaps Eugenie's protection officers didn't know until the day of the orphanage visit. Whatever Sarah was up to wasn't really their concern.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen has to know at all times where her family is and also so do the government due to the security issue as it has to be approved and checked in advance. Sarah couldn't just take Eugenie somewhere without security having already been told and checked. As Eugenie was having taxpayer funded security that security also can stop her going somewhere that would put her in danger - (they don't have the job to stop her doing something illegal although they can warn against it).

It is for this reason that I do believe that the powers that be in Britain knew what was planned.

 

[camelot23ca]

Here is something I don't understand - supposedly Sarah and Andrew both want the two girls to become working royals and the palace officials are very much against this idea. How could Sarah put her daughters in this position if she wants them to be working royals. This is just the kind of thing that will be the main arguement as to why there is no way on this Earth they will ever be allowed to represent the Queen.

Is this just another case of Sarah not thinking?

IMO it's inexcusable that Sarah involved the young Princess Eugenie in this at all, however good her intentions may have been. There are certain things that are inappropriate for a member of the British royal family to do and participating in an undercover exposé guaranteed to embarrass and anger a foreign government is one of them. If Sarah or her daughters want to do this sort of work then they should renounce their titles and, in the case of B and E, their places in the line of succession, give up any idea of ever representing the royal family and be prepared to support themselves financially AND accept any potential consequences of their actions without any special strings being pulled for them behind the scenes if they get into hot water.

 

[Irish Eyes]

Fergie cancels US flight over Turkish extradition fears for covert filming in orphanage | Mail Online

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/royal-...-she-fears-being-extradited-to-turkey-115875-

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Express Yourself :: Why Fergie's fight is right


Justice for Fergie - UK & World News - News - People.co.uk

A few articles from Sunday's papers. I just hope and pray that the children aren't forgotten in all of this, and that their conditions and situation improves. They should be the real story (not legalities, Sarah, Eugenie, ITV, Turkey, Government Officials etc.).

 

[claddagh]

It appears that my views of the situation are at odds with some members of this board. I find her actions to be completely irresponsible and dangerous, especially dragging her daughter along with her. I could understand her actions, partly, if I thought this was something she felt passionate about. (Not saying that what was portrayed in the documentary is acceptable) But I haven’t heard that she has embraced the cause. Apparently she did not check the legality of her actions either. Since, at that time she was employing a manager and aids, how could this have been missed. Since it was going to be shown on TV as a documentary, their secret mission was not going to stay that way. I personally check the local laws and customs of areas I may travel to insure I don’t end up as the lead news story. Also, things are not always the way the media portrays them. As some people have posted, in regards to the selling of Prince Andrew, that they felt the video had been cut and pasted or misrepresented and was some how a type of entrapment.

The question I must ask, for the people that feel bad for Sarah and think the charges are unjust: Why was it wrong for the NOTW to secretly record her but not wrong for her to secretly record someone else?

Maybe there will be a silver lining to all this. Eugenie and Beatrice may finally be convinced that joining in on their mother’s activities is not a good thing.

Anyone here think Sarah will take responsibility for her actions (any hands) or will she give a long list of the people that should take the blame?

 

[kakieanne]

Of course, we know that Sarah will not take responsibility, she is not at fault. Don't you know that Sarah is once again the VICTIM. As for it being wrong for NOTW to secretly record her but not wrong for Sarah to secretly record someone else, there have always been two laws...one for Sarah and one for the rest of the world. (Said tongue-in-cheek)

And while the timing of this can't be blamed on Sarah, didn't we all just know that something negative about Sarah would surface during the Queen's Jubilee Year?

 

[Mirabel]

It appears that my views of the situation are at odds with some members of this board. I find her actions to be completely irresponsible and dangerous, especially dragging her daughter along with her. I could understand her actions, partly, if I thought this was something she felt passionate about. (Not saying that what was portrayed in the documentary is acceptable) But I haven’t heard that she has embraced the cause.

My views coincide with yours.
Perhaps Fergie meant well, but I'm much more inclined to believe she did it for the money.

(I wasn't at all surprised to learn from the Telegraph article that she got a whopping fee for launching Sarah Selects, for example).

I just do not think altruism is part of her nature.

 

[Patra]

The purpose of this whole ordeal was to expose the horrific treatment of these poor children, which IMO was admirable. mission accomplished thanks to the press!

 

[Mermaid1962]

My own feeling is that if Sarah was willing to risk breaking Turkish law--AND to suffer the consequences of her actions--to expose the conditions of the orphanage, that's her business. However, she was wrong to bring her daughters along.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

The purpose of this whole ordeal was to expose the horrific treatment of these poor children, which IMO was admirable. mission accomplished thanks to the press!

Wasn't there any way to do this while respecting the laws of Turkey? I would be horrified to see a member of my royal family break the law, any law. Thankfully whether or not Sarah is royal is subject to interpretation..

 

[Iluvbertie]

No way to make this public and respect the laws of the country.

Do you really believe that if they had gone to the authorities and said 'we want to film your orphanages to show the world what conditions are like' they would have been given permission? Of course they wouldn't.

I actually think that the powers that be were supportive of Sarah in this. They would have known what was planned for Eugenie as security has to check out, in advance, everywhere she will be to approve the security angle - they do have the power to stop her going somewhere if it is deemed dangerous and they can't do that if they haven't already done a preview check. So to me the powers knew Eugenie was going to the orphanage so the next question would have been why? To look around - again why? They knew and used the royal connection to embarass Turkey to prevent Turkey's admission to the EU - the royals do get used by the government of the day for their political purposes - the royals can't make political statements but they can, and are, used by the politicians and this is just another example of that.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I still think that while the "Queen has to know," that Sarah doesn't always follow the rules. The Queen didn't know where Sarah was when she made her "access" deal, did she? I agree the Queen is supposed to know where Sarah is - but that doesn't make Sarah cooperative.

I find it hard to believe the that powers that be in Britain would know that Sarah was going to Turkey to interfere in Turkish policies.