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  #461  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I agree!
In fact, I don't see the problem with granting such titles.
It's not like money or property goes along with them; it's just the name, and it simply sounds better!
So why would doing do create public resentment?
Exactly! That's also my point. I don't see any problems with it. It's just a name but it has some kind of prestige in it.
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  #462  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Actually, Anne is not plain anything but rather HRH Anne, Princess Royal, Mrs Lawrence. Since titles do not pass down the maternal side in the UK RF unless Anne married a man with a title of his own she would carry her own but it does not pass to her son or daughter.
Actually it is now Lady Laurence, not Mrs Laurence as her husband is now Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence since 2011.
Tim earned his (Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order) for his service, not because he married Anne.
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  #463  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:01 AM
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We're kind of veering away from Beatrice's relationship but when discussing and musing on a future wedding, there are bound to be questions that pop up. I find the the discussion of Edo being offered a title an interesting one and there have been many good answers given and I'd like to add my own.

Times *are* changed and I think the biggest change happened in 1999. Up until that time, hereditary peers were eligible to hold a seat in the House of Lords. The House of Lords Act 1999 is an important amendment allowed 92 hereditary peers to remain members of the Lords for an interim period. The Act reduced membership from 1,330 to 669 mainly life peers. There have been only seven hereditary peers created after 1965, four of them members of the British royal family.

An hereditary peerage just doesn't hold the clout it used to have. With this in mind, I don't see Edo being offered any kind of a UK title whatsoever. Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Edo will curl up and wither away if Edo isn't offered a title. If they're marrying for love, the titles they'll use most in that family will be ones such as "darling", "honey", "sweetcheeks" and perhaps the best ones of "mum" and "dad".
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  #464  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
We're kind of veering away from Beatrice's relationship but when discussing and musing on a future wedding, there are bound to be questions that pop up. I find the the discussion of Edo being offered a title an interesting one and there have been many good answers given and I'd like to add my own.

Times *are* changed and I think the biggest change happened in 1999. Up until that time, hereditary peers were eligible to hold a seat in the House of Lords. The House of Lords Act 1999 is an important amendment allowed 92 hereditary peers to remain members of the Lords for an interim period. The Act reduced membership from 1,330 to 669 mainly life peers. There have been only seven hereditary peers created after 1965, four of them members of the British royal family.

An hereditary peerage just doesn't hold the clout it used to have. With this in mind, I don't see Edo being offered any kind of a UK title whatsoever. Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Edo will curl up and wither away if Edo isn't offered a title. If they're marrying for love, the titles they'll use most in that family will be ones such as "darling", "honey", "sweetcheeks" and perhaps the best ones of "mum" and "dad".
Well explained. Thank you for touching this topic, Osipi!
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  #465  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I agree it's interesting that if Bea was male she'd be Earl of Inverness and her wife would automatically be Countess, but I don't see that changing any time soon. Maybe in George's time if the monarchy still exists. It's more relevant to the future of the monarchy if Bea were able to inherit her father's title or be granted one of her own by her grandmother than if her husband should be given one simply for marrying a Princess in 2019.
Had Beatrice (or Eugenie, the same applies of course to her since Beatrice is Andrew's daughter not his son) been a son, this son would not be known as Earl of Inverness but as prince X of York. Only the next generation would use the subsidiary title as that generation no longer qualifies for the HRH and prince(ss).

Quote:
It's also noteworthy that she didn't offer her eldest grandson a title upon marriage or that he didn't accept. But again there's no gossip that it was offered or even thought of.
Of course Peter wasn't offered a title upon marriage. He isn't royal and never had a title, so it would be a very strange act if she did.
  #466  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
No. If Beatrice and Edo ever want him to have a title, he'll have to start using his own, which whilst non't legal anywhere people would still use and respect.
Would there be a remote possiblity that his title would be incorporated into the British nobility just like the Dutch Bourbon-Parma princes and princesses were incorporated into Dutch nobility?!
  #467  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:30 PM
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A good piece on foreign noble titles being (or not being) acknowledged in the United Kingdom:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...eigntitles.htm

Obviously, the status quo for the past 80 or so years has been that those who become naturalised Britons cannot expect their titles to be recognised. Though, there is nothing to keep people from using them socially.
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  #468  
Old 07-23-2019, 05:33 PM
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A fascinating read. Thank you for posting it.
  #469  
Old 07-23-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I agree!
In fact, I don't see the problem with granting such titles.
It's not like money or property goes along with them; it's just the name, and it simply sounds better!
So why would doing do create public resentment?
Assuming you pay attention to the news, you should kinda know the answer to this. People are fed up with establishment and privilige.
  #470  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Assuming you pay attention to the news, you should kinda know the answer to this. People are fed up with establishment and privilige.
I realize that, but I don't see the application here.
As I said, money and property isn't part of the deal. It is simply a title, has a grand ring to it, but doesn't have any real importance in the scheme of things.

It's like an academic title, like Doctor.
Basically unimportant, although it grants a certain cachet to the holder.

BUT- it doesn't grant any genuine privilege. So why should anyone object?
  #471  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I realize that, but I don't see the application here.
As I said, money and property isn't part of the deal. It is simply a title, has a grand ring to it, but doesn't have any real importance in the scheme of things.

It's like an academic title, like Doctor.
Basically unimportant, although it grants a certain cachet to the holder.

BUT- it doesn't grant any genuine privilege. So why should anyone object?
An academic title of Doctor is earned from years of school and hard work, it is not “basically unimportant.” It can make a huge difference in academic status, tenure, etc.

A title given just because you married the Queen’s granddaughter is not at all similar.
  #472  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:01 AM
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I expect Beatrice will be addressed in the same way (after she marries) that they are doing Eugenie now. I would think it highly unlikely whoever she marries will be given a title.

It doesn't seem like Edo cares about titles for himself as it is.



LaRae
  #473  
Old 07-24-2019, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I expect Beatrice will be addressed in the same way (after she marries) that they are doing Eugenie now. I would think it highly unlikely whoever she marries will be given a title.

It doesn't seem like Edo cares about titles for himself as it is.



LaRae
Edo might not care but maybe Andrew does. After all, Bea is his first-born.

Anyways, I wish the couple the best. I am just happy Bea found someone like Edo.
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  #474  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:58 AM
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However unlikely it is (I'd say it's 0) for the Queen to incorporate Edo's title into the Peerage of the UK it would in fact give him certain privileges. The most important would be it making him eligible to stand for election to the House of Lords if the peerage was hereditary or outright giving him a place there if it was a life peerage.
  #475  
Old 07-24-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
An academic title of Doctor is earned from years of school and hard work, it is not “basically unimportant.” It can make a huge difference in academic status, tenure, etc.

A title given just because you married the Queen’s granddaughter is not at all similar.
Sorry, careless comparison.
  #476  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:45 AM
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If it were confirmed Mozzi is Catholic it would be nice if any future wedding were to be held at Westminster Cathedral. To really show that the Royals are putting their anti-Catholicism aside and embracing their changes to succession from 2011.
  #477  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:59 AM
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I don't believe that will ever happen. There are just so many different areas where Winchester Cathedral would blow this wedding out of proportion even without the Catholic/CoE angle. Disruption of traffic in London and security costs are the first that come to mind for me.

It would just present too many obstacles and not worth it just to make a point of the acceptance of marrying a Catholic.
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  #478  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:18 AM
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I don't see how the Cathedral would be more problematic than the Abbey and they have Royal events there all the time. Both are in central London, 10 minutes walk apart, both are set back from the road, its just another church. Cars can mount the pavement by the entrance or park on a side road to the right of the main doors. These buildings are made with grand ceremony in mind
  #479  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:53 AM
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I personally love Westminster Cathedral but I don't see them getting married there, even if Edo is RC, any more than getting married at the Abbey. And I think the BRF has other ways of showing it's inclusiveness in general.

And the Queen's granddaughter getting married in a catholic ceremony might cause headaches even though she no longer has to give up her place in the succession.
  #480  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mey View Post
I don't see how the Cathedral would be more problematic than the Abbey and they have Royal events there all the time. Both are in central London, 10 minutes walk apart, both are set back from the road, its just another church. Cars can mount the pavement by the entrance or park on a side road to the right of the main doors. These buildings are made with grand ceremony in mind
Harry and Eugenie both got married at Windsor. and in the past few years there have been so many terrorist incident in London. Not gonna happen
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