Princess Beatrice: Relationships Musings and Suggestions


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Oh that's so sweet of him. But did you confuse him with his father, Angus?

Yes, I did.
I don´t mind the royals having titles either. In fact I want them to have titles which makes me quite sad that another precedent might have been set by Archie not using the courtesy title he´s entitled to.
 
Yes, I did.
I don´t mind the royals having titles either. In fact I want them to have titles which makes me quite sad that another precedent might have been set by Archie not using the courtesy title he´s entitled to.

I also think so too. I know we are living in the modern world and the idea of monarchy is changing but (call me traditional) one of the reasons why I got hooked with royalty was because of the prestige that comes along with their rank, title and style.

I know some people might argue that it's the modern world..... but titles give me fascination.

Anyhow, I never seen Beatrice as this happy with Edo. Is there any photo of them 3 yet? Bea, Edo and Wolfie?
 
I also think he should be Prince Archie of Sussex.

I also don't understand whyn Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands' children are Count and Countesses, instead of Prince/Princesses; the Dutch Parliament gave a consent for their parent's marriage.

We all know that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title when his father dies; does it matter that Lady Louise Windsor will be then titled "Princess Louise of Edinburgh"? (James will become Earl of Wessex).

As for Beatrice and Edo - all the best and I am waiting for big announcement!
 
Oh that's so sweet of him. But did you confuse him with his father, Angus?

I actually don't mind the royals having titles that's why I also asked from the start if Edo would most likely be granted one provided that The Duke of York's title will only merge with the Crown when he dies.

I asked it because I think Beatrice deserves it as the first-born.

James did not turn down an earldom.. Angus Ogivly did. But apparently he later regretted it. and Edo is not royal, and wont get a title.
And times had changed by the time Anne was married in the 70s.. Neither she nor Mark wished for him to have a title.. and the public would have been very much aganst the idea... so there was no prospect ever of Beatrice or Eug's husbands being offered titles..
 
Andrew's title will revert to the crown when he dies as he has no son to inherit it for all several ladies of the aristocracy have tried to challenge the laws of inheritance.

Those challenges are still coming up. The 2013 Act of Succession did make it very clear that the change was for the Royal Family, and definitely not applicable to any other titles.

Beatrice has a better chance of being created Duke of York, so to speak, after her father's death than any of the non royal aristocratic titles due to royal prerogative but that chance is basically nil.

We all know that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title when his father dies; does it matter that Lady Louise Windsor will be then titled "Princess Louise of Edinburgh"? (James will become Earl of Wessex).

Edward won't directly inherit it. If it happens his mother or brother will recreate it for him. Lady Louise is already legally Princess Louise, she just doesn't go by that. It's unlikely she will start to do so, I imagine she will be Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor until she marries. It's possible her brother will go by Earl of Wessex or maybe any of the current subsidiary titles Edward is given with the Dukedom, if any.
 
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James did not turn down an earldom.. Angus Ogivly did. But apparently he later regretted it. and Edo is not royal, and wont get a title.
And times had changed by the time Anne was married in the 70s.. Neither she nor Mark wished for him to have a title.. and the public would have been very much aganst the idea... so there was no prospect ever of Beatrice or Eug's husbands being offered titles..

I did not say it was James, I corrected the person who said it was James. Edo is not a royal, we are already at it. But what we were trying to see if the Queen will give him a hereditary peerage title.

You don't have to be a royal to be given a title.

I don't know why people are bringing up Princess Anne's decision years ago. If the Queen decides to offer Edo a title and if Edo and Beatrice are up for it, then fine. But yes, times are changing.

I don't think the whole community of the UK and the Commonwealth Realms will be against it.
 
I did not say it was James, I corrected the person who said it was James. Edo is not a royal, we are already at it. But what we were trying to see if the Queen will give him a hereditary peerage title.

You don't have to be a royal to be given a title.

I don't know why people are bringing up Princess Anne's decision years ago. If the Queen decides to offer Edo a title and if Edo and Beatrice are up for it, then fine. But yes, times are changing.

I don't think the whole community of the UK and the Commonwealth Realms will be against it.

It's being brought up because it's precedent. If every non titled man marrying a close female relative of the Queen was offered and accepted a title then it would be logical to assume that the same would be true of Jack Brooksbank and (maybe, not engaged yet) Edo MM.

However that's not the case and the Queen did not offer Jack anything so is unlike to offer Beatrice's future husband one. If he ever wanted one he could start using his own defunct one socially and people would start calling him that like they do for many other defunct title holders.

I don't think people in the UK or Commonwealth think very much about it at all, but I do think it would be controversial if it happened and it's not a road it's necessary to go down today. Their children aren't close to the throne so theoretical "Master Mapelli Mozzi" won't suddenly become King of the UK, as was the supposed reason Antony Armstrong-Jones was given one.

I think there would be more a case for giving Bea (and Eugenie etc) a Duchy as a present for equality, but that's no dice either for the Queen.
 
It's being brought up because it's precedent. If every non titled man marrying a close female relative of the Queen was offered and accepted a title then it would be logical to assume that the same would be true of Jack Brooksbank and (maybe, not engaged yet) Edo MM.

However that's not the case and the Queen did not offer Jack anything so is unlike to offer Beatrice's future husband one. If he ever wanted one he could start using his own defunct one socially and people would start calling him that like they do for many other defunct title holders.

I don't think people in the UK or Commonwealth think very much about it at all, but I do think it would be controversial if it happened and it's not a road it's necessary to go down today. Their children aren't close to the throne so theoretical "Master Mapelli Mozzi" won't suddenly become King of the UK, as was the supposed reason Antony Armstrong-Jones was given one.

I think there would be more a case for giving Bea (and Eugenie etc) a Duchy as a present for equality, but that's no dice either for the Queen.

I am not really interested about Jack or Eugenie.

My question was just really out of curiosity.

Being close to the throne or not is not a given reason for the Queen to offer hereditary peerage titles.

The reason why I am interested with Bea and Edo more than Eugenie and Jack is because, if Bea was only born male she would have used his father's subsidiary title and eventually be the 'Duchess of York' but that's not the case. It was supposed to be her birthright.
 
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I don´t mind the royals having titles either. In fact I want them to have titles which makes me quite sad that another precedent might have been set by Archie not using the courtesy title he´s entitled to.

I agree!
In fact, I don't see the problem with granting such titles.
It's not like money or property goes along with them; it's just the name, and it simply sounds better!
So why would doing do create public resentment?
 
I am not really interested about Jack or Eugenie.

My question was just out of curiosity and I think you are exaggerating things.

Being close to the throne or not is not a given reason for the Queen to offer hereditary peerage titles.

The reason why I am interested with Bea and Edo more than Eugenie and Jack is because, if Bea is only born male she would have used his father's subsidiary title and eventually be the 'Duchess of York' but that's not the case.

I admit, I have no idea if the Queen offered him anything over tea. ;) I'll amend that it's highly unlikely and wasn't reported anywhere that he refused anything.

Being close to the throne is important in this case, to my eyes, because it increases the likelihood of being offered a title in the case of marriage, so that the Queen's sister can't be nicknamed "Mrs Jones" which was a caption of a beautiful picture of the bride Princess Margaret. And there are only so many titles that she actually has within the Crown that can be given, that's why Harry was considered likely to be DOS years before he married.

I agree it's interesting that if Bea was male she'd be Earl of Inverness and her wife would automatically be Countess, but I don't see that changing any time soon. Maybe in George's time if the monarchy still exists. It's more relevant to the future of the monarchy if Bea were able to inherit her father's title or be granted one of her own by her grandmother than if her husband should be given one simply for marrying a Princess in 2019.

It's also noteworthy that she didn't offer her eldest grandson a title upon marriage or that he didn't accept. But again there's no gossip that it was offered or even thought of.
 
I agree!
In fact, I don't see the problem with granting such titles.
It's not like money or property goes along with them; it's just the name, and it simply sounds better!
So why would doing do create public resentment?

Exactly! That's also my point. I don't see any problems with it. It's just a name but it has some kind of prestige in it. :flowers:
 
Actually, Anne is not plain anything but rather HRH Anne, Princess Royal, Mrs Lawrence. Since titles do not pass down the maternal side in the UK RF unless Anne married a man with a title of his own she would carry her own but it does not pass to her son or daughter.

Actually it is now Lady Laurence, not Mrs Laurence as her husband is now Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence since 2011.:flowers:
Tim earned his (Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order) for his service, not because he married Anne.
 
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We're kind of veering away from Beatrice's relationship but when discussing and musing on a future wedding, there are bound to be questions that pop up. I find the the discussion of Edo being offered a title an interesting one and there have been many good answers given and I'd like to add my own.

Times *are* changed and I think the biggest change happened in 1999. Up until that time, hereditary peers were eligible to hold a seat in the House of Lords. The House of Lords Act 1999 is an important amendment allowed 92 hereditary peers to remain members of the Lords for an interim period. The Act reduced membership from 1,330 to 669 mainly life peers. There have been only seven hereditary peers created after 1965, four of them members of the British royal family.

An hereditary peerage just doesn't hold the clout it used to have. With this in mind, I don't see Edo being offered any kind of a UK title whatsoever. Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Edo will curl up and wither away if Edo isn't offered a title. If they're marrying for love, the titles they'll use most in that family will be ones such as "darling", "honey", "sweetcheeks" and perhaps the best ones of "mum" and "dad". :D
 
We're kind of veering away from Beatrice's relationship but when discussing and musing on a future wedding, there are bound to be questions that pop up. I find the the discussion of Edo being offered a title an interesting one and there have been many good answers given and I'd like to add my own.

Times *are* changed and I think the biggest change happened in 1999. Up until that time, hereditary peers were eligible to hold a seat in the House of Lords. The House of Lords Act 1999 is an important amendment allowed 92 hereditary peers to remain members of the Lords for an interim period. The Act reduced membership from 1,330 to 669 mainly life peers. There have been only seven hereditary peers created after 1965, four of them members of the British royal family.

An hereditary peerage just doesn't hold the clout it used to have. With this in mind, I don't see Edo being offered any kind of a UK title whatsoever. Personally, I don't think either Beatrice or Edo will curl up and wither away if Edo isn't offered a title. If they're marrying for love, the titles they'll use most in that family will be ones such as "darling", "honey", "sweetcheeks" and perhaps the best ones of "mum" and "dad". :D

Well explained. Thank you for touching this topic, Osipi!
 
I agree it's interesting that if Bea was male she'd be Earl of Inverness and her wife would automatically be Countess, but I don't see that changing any time soon. Maybe in George's time if the monarchy still exists. It's more relevant to the future of the monarchy if Bea were able to inherit her father's title or be granted one of her own by her grandmother than if her husband should be given one simply for marrying a Princess in 2019.
Had Beatrice (or Eugenie, the same applies of course to her since Beatrice is Andrew's daughter not his son) been a son, this son would not be known as Earl of Inverness but as prince X of York. Only the next generation would use the subsidiary title as that generation no longer qualifies for the HRH and prince(ss).

It's also noteworthy that she didn't offer her eldest grandson a title upon marriage or that he didn't accept. But again there's no gossip that it was offered or even thought of.
Of course Peter wasn't offered a title upon marriage. He isn't royal and never had a title, so it would be a very strange act if she did.
 
No. If Beatrice and Edo ever want him to have a title, he'll have to start using his own, which whilst non't legal anywhere people would still use and respect.
Would there be a remote possiblity that his title would be incorporated into the British nobility just like the Dutch Bourbon-Parma princes and princesses were incorporated into Dutch nobility?!
 
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A good piece on foreign noble titles being (or not being) acknowledged in the United Kingdom:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/foreigntitles.htm

Obviously, the status quo for the past 80 or so years has been that those who become naturalised Britons cannot expect their titles to be recognised. Though, there is nothing to keep people from using them socially.
 
A fascinating read. Thank you for posting it.
 
I agree!
In fact, I don't see the problem with granting such titles.
It's not like money or property goes along with them; it's just the name, and it simply sounds better!
So why would doing do create public resentment?
Assuming you pay attention to the news, you should kinda know the answer to this. People are fed up with establishment and privilige.
 
Assuming you pay attention to the news, you should kinda know the answer to this. People are fed up with establishment and privilige.

I realize that, but I don't see the application here.
As I said, money and property isn't part of the deal. It is simply a title, has a grand ring to it, but doesn't have any real importance in the scheme of things.

It's like an academic title, like Doctor.
Basically unimportant, although it grants a certain cachet to the holder.

BUT- it doesn't grant any genuine privilege. So why should anyone object?
 
I realize that, but I don't see the application here.
As I said, money and property isn't part of the deal. It is simply a title, has a grand ring to it, but doesn't have any real importance in the scheme of things.

It's like an academic title, like Doctor.
Basically unimportant, although it grants a certain cachet to the holder.

BUT- it doesn't grant any genuine privilege. So why should anyone object?

An academic title of Doctor is earned from years of school and hard work, it is not “basically unimportant.” It can make a huge difference in academic status, tenure, etc.

A title given just because you married the Queen’s granddaughter is not at all similar.
 
I expect Beatrice will be addressed in the same way (after she marries) that they are doing Eugenie now. I would think it highly unlikely whoever she marries will be given a title.

It doesn't seem like Edo cares about titles for himself as it is.



LaRae
 
I expect Beatrice will be addressed in the same way (after she marries) that they are doing Eugenie now. I would think it highly unlikely whoever she marries will be given a title.

It doesn't seem like Edo cares about titles for himself as it is.



LaRae

Edo might not care but maybe Andrew does. After all, Bea is his first-born. :flowers:

Anyways, I wish the couple the best. I am just happy Bea found someone like Edo.
 
However unlikely it is (I'd say it's 0) for the Queen to incorporate Edo's title into the Peerage of the UK it would in fact give him certain privileges. The most important would be it making him eligible to stand for election to the House of Lords if the peerage was hereditary or outright giving him a place there if it was a life peerage.
 
An academic title of Doctor is earned from years of school and hard work, it is not “basically unimportant.” It can make a huge difference in academic status, tenure, etc.

A title given just because you married the Queen’s granddaughter is not at all similar.

Sorry, careless comparison. :flowers:
 
If it were confirmed Mozzi is Catholic it would be nice if any future wedding were to be held at Westminster Cathedral. To really show that the Royals are putting their anti-Catholicism aside and embracing their changes to succession from 2011.
 
I don't believe that will ever happen. There are just so many different areas where Winchester Cathedral would blow this wedding out of proportion even without the Catholic/CoE angle. Disruption of traffic in London and security costs are the first that come to mind for me.

It would just present too many obstacles and not worth it just to make a point of the acceptance of marrying a Catholic.
 
I don't see how the Cathedral would be more problematic than the Abbey and they have Royal events there all the time. Both are in central London, 10 minutes walk apart, both are set back from the road, its just another church. Cars can mount the pavement by the entrance or park on a side road to the right of the main doors. These buildings are made with grand ceremony in mind
 
I personally love Westminster Cathedral but I don't see them getting married there, even if Edo is RC, any more than getting married at the Abbey. And I think the BRF has other ways of showing it's inclusiveness in general.

And the Queen's granddaughter getting married in a catholic ceremony might cause headaches even though she no longer has to give up her place in the succession.
 
I don't see how the Cathedral would be more problematic than the Abbey and they have Royal events there all the time. Both are in central London, 10 minutes walk apart, both are set back from the road, its just another church. Cars can mount the pavement by the entrance or park on a side road to the right of the main doors. These buildings are made with grand ceremony in mind

Harry and Eugenie both got married at Windsor. and in the past few years there have been so many terrorist incident in London. Not gonna happen
 
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