Prince Andrew, Duke of York Current Events 7: Feb 2015 - Sep 2022

[Denville]

No one, of course. And it surprised me that he realized that no one listening to him meant there would be no use for him to do it. He's been broadly regarded as a royal brute for years, it rarely was of any use and he kept doing it anyway.

I woudl say there were some very brutally frank talks with him (probably from Charles) after that interview.. and he was made to realise that he had made an awful mess of things.. (Sadly I dont think the queen realized how bad he looked until it was made clear to her). But the charities were all dropping him, and he had no choice but to make the announcement that he was giving up royal duties. And while he was rude, selfish stupid, arrogant and greedy for money, he DID work fairly hard, as royals go...so it msut be quite a loss to him to be stuck at home with no real hope of ever working again....

 

[Denville]

Andrew is seen as someone who had sex with a much younger girl.. borderline legal. He's not going to get anyone listening ot him complaining...

 

[Moran]

I woudl say there were some very brutally frank talks with him (probably from Charles) after that interview.. and he was made to realise that he had made an awful mess of things.. (Sadly I dont think the queen realized how bad he looked until it was made clear to her). But the charities were all dropping him, and he had no choice but to make the announcement that he was giving up royal duties. And while he was rude, selfish stupid, arrogant and greedy for money, he DID work fairly hard, as royals go...so it msut be quite a loss to him to be stuck at home with no real hope of ever working again....

I can easily imagine it happening this exact way.

 

[ladongas]

I woudl say there were some very brutally frank talks with him (probably from Charles) after that interview.. and he was made to realise that he had made an awful mess of things.. (Sadly I dont think the queen realized how bad he looked until it was made clear to her). But the charities were all dropping him, and he had no choice but to make the announcement that he was giving up royal duties. And while he was rude, selfish stupid, arrogant and greedy for money, he DID work fairly hard, as royals go...so it msut be quite a loss to him to be stuck at home with no real hope of ever working again....

Surely there’s something he can do for his family other than keeping one horse exercised. There are library books to be shelved, and sheds to be painted, and bric a brac to be dusted, and errands to be run. That’s the sort of thing many men do in retirement, regardless of their previously exalted status. And babies to be sat!

 

[Osipi]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if these activities are what Andrew is actually doing with his time. Or even taking advantage of having more free time to pursue his talent for photography. He's very much keeping his life a private one and, to me, that's a good thing to be doing.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

At this rate he should be able to launch a late in life career as an equestrian

Wonder who the folks are with him?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Only around one in four of the Duke of York's patronages have confirmed formally removing him as their patron. It appears that most of the remaining charities are waiting to be contacted by Buckingham Palace regarding the way forward, but Buckingham Palace is leaving it up to the charities to contact the Palace.

It's understandable that many royal patronages would be hesitant about preempting the Palace with unilateral actions or propositions. It would be right in my view for Buckingham Palace to take the initiative, particularly since royal aides have been briefing the media for many months that the public role of the Duke is finished. A letter informing the charities that the Duke of York will remain retired from public life for the foreseeable future and offering to assign another royal patron to charities which desire to have one may be in order.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ietly-removed-patron-almost-50-organisations/

[...]

Around 200 charities and organisations are said to have the Duke’s backing. Of around 150 contacted by the Telegraph, 47 confirmed they had ended their affiliation with him. Many declined to respond or opted not to comment, suggesting the very subject remains highly sensitive.

Of those who had severed ties, the majority said they had not yet replaced him. However, many said they were hoping to recruit individuals more aligned to their aims.

Only three, the British Science Association, the Council of British International Schools and the Tall Ships Youth Trust, said they had contacted Buckingham Palace in the hope of finding a new royal patron.

[...]

Others felt they should cut ties with the Duke but felt unable to do so as he had not been charged or convicted of any crime. Instead of formally parting ways, they quietly removed his portrait from the wall, deleted his name from their website and even in one case concealed a plaque bearing his name behind a plant.

[...]

The Telegraph’s investigation found that a lack of contact from Buckingham Palace about the unfolding events in 2019 had caused significant confusion.

Several organisations, having heard nothing directly from the Duke’s office, believed that when he stepped back, he had in fact, stepped down.

[...]

A Buckingham Palace source acknowledged that the Duke’s individual patronages had not been contacted directly. “The announcement of the Duke of York stepping back from public duties received widespread attention and many patronages were quick to get in touch,” they said.

“Since then patronages wishing to discuss the impact on their operations have been dealt with as they arose.”

Many charities noted that the Royal family’s website, listing the Duke as patron of 136 charities and organisations, was woefully out of date. Many are not included, whilst other associations ended some time before the Epstein furore.

[...]

Royal aides have insisted that there will be no way back until he is able to clear his name.

A spokesperson for the Duke of York declined to comment.

The article lists examples of charities which have severed ties and charities which technically have the Duke as their patron for the time being (some of which erroneously assumed he had resigned).

 

[Eskimo]

I woudl say there were some very brutally frank talks with him (probably from Charles) after that interview.. and he was made to realise that he had made an awful mess of things.. (Sadly I dont think the queen realized how bad he looked until it was made clear to her). But the charities were all dropping him, and he had no choice but to make the announcement that he was giving up royal duties. And while he was rude, selfish stupid, arrogant and greedy for money, he DID work fairly hard, as royals go...so it msut be quite a loss to him to be stuck at home with no real hope of ever working again....

I agree that there were some brutally frank talks— but I don’t believe Andrew would have stepped back unless the brutal talk/truth actually came from mommy’s lips

 

[Prinsara]

Instead of formally parting ways, they quietly removed his portrait from the wall, deleted his name from their website and even in one case concealed a plaque bearing his name behind a plant.

That is sad. And unfair to the charities of all things, which did nothing wrong except choose an unfortunate patron. And now many of them seem to be stuck in limbo. Wouldn't it be more graceful for Andrew to inform them they're free to find someone else (less embarrassing)?

 

[Roslyn]

At this rate he should be able to launch a late in life career as an equestrian

? These photos of Andrew riding are all so tame! I expect the Queen to be riding at a nice safe walk but I would love to see Andrew having a bit of a canter.

 

[MARG]

Andrew is seen as someone who had sex with a much younger girl.. borderline legal. He's not going to get anyone listening to him complaining...

Tried and convicted by media sensational suppositions. There has been no evidence that he committed any crimes and even the FBI said they had no questions for him. Yet he, out of all the great and good, has been vilified and his life destroyed. What about all those famous actors, politicians, scientists, members of government and suchlike who were also "friends", stayed with him or flew with him? Men such as Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Woody Allen, Alexander Acosta, Lawrence Kraus, Elon Musk, William Barr, Kevin Starr, Bill Gates, Leon Black, to name but a few?

Well, the majority of them are US citizens and can successfully sue for the type of vicious, unsubstantiated accusations of paedophilia and human trafficking that are routinely plastered over the tabloids of the UK.

There is no charge, no conviction, no time spent in prison, yet the vicious drubbing he gets in the UK media and even on this forum, he is treated as a convicted criminal and he can't fight back. You have destroyed his life and are still not content. He is being castigated for riding in Windsor Park doing no harm to anyone.

Wonder who the folks are with him?

Judging by their attire I would assume they are Windsor staff, specifically grooms or stable hands.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Don't forget Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway. She also socialized with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

 

[Denville]

I agree that there were some brutally frank talks— but I don’t believe Andrew would have stepped back unless the brutal talk/truth actually came from mommy’s lips

As I've said, I fear that the queen didn't really realize how bad things were till the charities started to drop him and the press were very critical of his interview. She's a very old lady, she has led a sheltered life and he's her favourite, and she may have made excuses her in mind for him.. but she's not a fool, and I think that she did realise it. And then she and Charles would have made it clear to him that he had to step down...
but Andrew should have realised that a lifestyle of "having girls procured for him", esp when they were trafficked or were only just of legal age, is not something that is acceptable to a public figure any more.. and he should have never done the interview and cut down on his charities.

 

[Denville]

Surely there’s something he can do for his family other than keeping one horse exercised. There are library books to be shelved, and sheds to be painted, and bric a brac to be dusted, and errands to be run. That’s the sort of thing many men do in retirement, regardless of their previously exalted status. And babies to be sat!

Do you really think that Andrew does stuff liek that?

 

[Moran]

As I've said, I fear that the queen didn't really realize how bad things were till the charities started to drop him and the press were very critical of his interview. She's a very old lady, she has led a sheltered life and he's her favourite, and she may have made excuses her in mind for him.. but she's not a fool, and I think that she did realise it. And then she and Charles would have made it clear to him that he had to step down...
but Andrew should have realised that a lifestyle of "having girls procured for him", esp when they were trafficked or were only just of legal age, is not something that is acceptable to a public figure any more.. and he should have never done the interview and cut down on his charities.

It looks unacceptable only for him, though. Last time I checked, Bill Clinton and the rest of them were spreading sage wisdom and are seen as some speakers of God's own truth, yet Andrew who was sought only to give testimony is treated as THE criminal.


What did he do, after all? He's been known as overbearing, tactless, entitled and too pompous. He gave a disastrous interview in which all these lovely attributes shone through. These are the only things that we know for sure.


I bet the FBI knows where he was, hour by hour, at the times they're interested in. I also think all of this is deliberate. He isn't the only one who socialized with Epstein or who slept with trafficked girls, I'm sure. Did he realize they were trafficked, BTW? But he's one of the few who aren't overly bright. And it's much more sensational to point the lights to the insignificant second son of TQ, rather than investigate some of the very American figures who hold the actual political and economical strings (compared to Andrew).


Now, I think that everything that happened led to the practical impossibility for him to stay in public life. He cannot be a public face of the monarchy anymore, that's clear. And a huge part of it is his own making. Was he warned about Epstein? Yes, I believe he was. Did he take the warning to heart? Of course not. That would require some wisdom, reason and caution that he severely lacks. But comparing the treatment he receives compared to others, it's definitely unfair. For Pete's sake, I even saw suggestions that he'd be traded for Anne Sacoolas who actually fled from justice.

 

[Denville]

It looks unacceptable only for him, though. Last time I checked, Bill Clinton and the rest of them were spreading sage wisdom and are seen as some speakers of God's own truth, yet Andrew who was sought only to give testimony is treated as THE criminal.


What did he do, after all? He's been known as overbearing, tactless, entitled and too pompous. He gave a disastrous interview in which all these lovely attributes shone through. These are the only things that we know for sure.


I bet the FBI knows where he was, hour by hour, at the times they're interested in. I also think all of this is deliberate. He isn't the only one who socialized with Epstein or who slept with trafficked girls, I'm sure. Did he realize they were trafficked, BTW? But he's one of the few who aren't overly bright. And it's much more sensational to point the lights to the insignificant second son of TQ, rather than investigate some of the very American figures who hold the actual political and economical strings (compared to Andrew).


Now, I think that everything that happened led to the practical impossibility for him to stay in public life. He cannot be a public face of the monarchy anymore, that's clear. And a huge part of it is his own making. Was he warned about Epstein? Yes, I believe he was. Did he take the warning to heart? Of course not. But comparing the treatment he receives compared to others, it's definitely unfair. For Pete's sake, I even saw suggestions that he'd be traded for Anne Sacoolas who actually fled from justice.

But this is a royal forum.. So his behavior is what is being discussed...yes there may be American and other politicians and so on, who behaved as badly or worse than him.. but they're for another discussion forum.
And a royal has a symbolic function so that without committing actual criminal deeds, they may be criticised and thrown out of public life, "just because they are royal and they acted in an unbecoming way."
Andrew probably didn't realise that the girls were trafficked but he was friends with Ghislaine Maxwell who was the one doing a lot of the nasty stuff. He hung around with Epstein not just to get girls but to make money - just as he has made money on the side by association with dubious oligarchs.. that's another piece of unroyal behavior, that combined with the Epstein friendship and the girls has destroyed his reputation.
And another reason he didn't probably realise the girls were trafficked and were very young was that he is simply blind to people who are of a lower social class than him, and just thinks that they are there to serve him and he does not notice them. That's what's pretty repulsive of him and why no charity will touch him again IMO.

Andrews royal status is unlikely to be taken from him.. because he's the queen's son, he is her favourite and she'll try to make excuses for him.. IMO he is lucky that his status is likely to mean that the only punishment he is suffering is to lose his job and to have to lead a quiet life in premature retirement.

 

[maria-olivia]

For Eugenie's Wedding he was the Father's Bride in its Glory
For Beatrice Wedding was he Present? Pictures with the Queen and the Duke od E.
For August birth no family Pictures
For the coming baby he did any announcement .

 

[Denville]

For Eugenie's Wedding he was the Father's Bride in its Glory
For Beatrice Wedding was he Present? Pictures with the Queen and the Duke od E.
For August birth no family Pictures
For the coming baby he did any announcement .

no, he is not likely to be in any family pictures.. it was fortuitous that Bea was married so privately and they had a good excuse to keep both Sarah and Andrew out of pictures.

 

[Claire]

Tried and convicted by media sensational suppositions. There has been no evidence that he committed any crimes and even the FBI said they had no questions for him. Yet he, out of all the great and good, has been vilified and his life destroyed. What about all those famous actors, politicians, scientists, members of government and suchlike who were also "friends", stayed with him or flew with him? Men such as Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Woody Allen, Alexander Acosta, Lawrence Kraus, Elon Musk, William Barr, Kevin Starr, Bill Gates, Leon Black, to name but a few?

Well, the majority of them are US citizens and can successfully sue for the type of vicious, unsubstantiated accusations of paedophilia and human trafficking that are routinely plastered over the tabloids of the UK.

There is no charge, no conviction, no time spent in prison, yet the vicious drubbing he gets in the UK media and even on this forum, he is treated as a convicted criminal and he can't fight back. You have destroyed his life and are still not content. He is being castigated for riding in Windsor Park doing no harm to anyone. Judging by their attire I would assume they are Windsor staff, specifically grooms or stable hands.

Completely agreed.

 

[Moran]

But this is a royal forum.. So his behavior is what is being discussed...yes there may be American and other politicians and so on, who behaved as badly or worse than him.. but they're for another discussion forum.
And a royal has a symbolic function so that without committing actual criminal deeds, they may be criticised and thrown out of public life, "just because they are royal and they acted in an unbecoming way."
Andrew probably didn't realise that the girls were trafficked but he was friends with Ghislaine Maxwell who was the one doing a lot of the nasty stuff. He hung around with Epstein not just to get girls but to make money - just as he has made money on the side by association with dubious oligarchs.. that's another piece of unroyal behavior, that combined with the Epstein friendship and the girls has destroyed his reputation.
And another reason he didn't probably realise the girls were trafficked and were very young was that he is simply blind to people who are of a lower social class than him, and just thinks that they are there to serve him and he does not notice them. That's what's pretty repulsive of him and why no charity will touch him again IMO.

Andrews royal status is unlikely to be taken from him.. because he's the queen's son, he is her favourite and she'll try to make excuses for him.. IMO he is lucky that his status is likely to mean that the only punishment he is suffering is to lose his job and to have to lead a quiet life in premature retirement.

He's definitely blind to those of lower status than him... and it might have been far worse, re consequences. He didn't really lose any money he desperately needed. But he isn't the only royal who is blind this way and it was made clear rather recently. I'll keep watching if the press is going to make the connection, although, in all honesty, even they seem tired of beating the dead horse when it's been almost two years without any new development. Andrew and his horse can fill only so many inches of blank space.



This is a royal forum indeed and I wasn't comparing the treatment royals and non-royals get from the members. I was talking about the press whose relationship with the royals is discussed rather frequently here. Good thing that the royals themselves rarely complain of the press in width, else one forum might be too narrow to contain all the discussions - Prince Andrew said THIS tabloid was mean and THAT tabloid took offense and what do we think about THIS tabloid author with a grudge against this or that royal who now writes for THAT non-tabloid paper and how trustworthy they are...

 

[Denville]

I doubt if Andrew would complain about the press. He is arrogant and stupid, but he by and large hasn't been one for giving interviews or talking to or about the press too much. He was foolish to give that interview 18 months ago.. but since then I think he's accepted that he has completely ruined his life as a working royal and has accepted retirement and seclusion.
And because of that I think the press have given up on him. They can see that he's leading a quiet life.. he only goes out riding as far as I can see, and what is ther to say? He hasn't been charged with anything, he's given up his job, what is there to say about him now? I think the queen made it clear at Bea's wedding that she accepts that her son has to keep out of public life.. and hopefully so does Andrew.
To be honest, I think that Andrew would hardly remember one pressman rather than another... so he's not likely to engage in long winded disputes and complaints about them...

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Of course we never know what really happens behind the scenes in the family’s private life, but reading about Andrew here makes me think about how the RF needs to figure out how to handle “the spare.” I can’t imagine how hard it would be because they are both a family and a “firm.” But I see these second sons as floundering (both Andrew and now Harry). Perhaps they could develop some sort of “expectations” for the spare? IDK, I thought the Commonwealth “ambassador” so to speak was a good idea for Harry before he made his true feelings clear. Perhaps if this was fleshed out/planned in their teens/twenties but perhaps always discussed that “you have a very important role too” it might mitigate some of what has happened. Maybe they did this and we are unaware.

I can see Charlotte being very much like her great Aunt Anne if what we see and hear of her personality is true. I just would not want to see precious Charlotte and/or Louis ending up as a floundering “spare.”

 

[Denville]

Not all "spares" are difficult and stroppy. I think that Andrew was a bit, and Harry too though he hid it.. but there have been second sons who were very dutiful and made better kings than the heir would have done.
Anyway I think that the second or younger kids in the next generation wont be expected to be full time workers so the issue wont really arise. it was different in the Queen's day...
The problem wiht the Spare I think is now that royals have access to other jobs and roles so perhaps (Unless they are going to be king eventually) they dont like being asked to do a role which has its limitations, and where they will be less noticed as they get older, but which doesn't have the importance of being King or queen. And the "spare" isn't going to be as rich and so on -. but a lot of peopel would of course feel that even if one isn't as rich as the future monarch, its still an important role, which can be interesting and one will still be pretty well to do compared with the rest of the world.....

 

[Mirabel]

Not all "spares" are difficult and stroppy. I think that Andrew was a bit, and Harry too though he hid it.. but there have been second sons who were very dutiful and made better kings than the heir would have done.

I think Margaret was too.

I remember reading that courtiers at the time were saying: It's a good thing that Elizabeth is the elder.

 

[Sandy345]

Had Margaret been born first she would have been treated differently and flattered as the Heiress. And probably behaved differently. Margaret complained that she did not get as good an education as her elder sister (who was taught more serious subjects.

 

[Claire]

I do find it funny what a little bit of hindsight can do. In 20 years time and Harry is great and wonderful in the public eyes and maybe Andrew has been found complete not guilty. Come back here and have a look.
I cant write off someone's life by one incident or even several of them. Both might still surprise us all.
William and Kate have more then enough time to make mistakes as well.


That been said - you do realize that the DOE had such conversation with Anne and Edward. They are not the heirs they are the what the hells do we do with you children. And Anne's went well - Edward;s not so much. Eventually they will have the discussion with Louis as well. But I am happy that he has more choice now then a generation had ago. Hopefully he will learn and the family will learn from what has happened before

 

[Denville]

Andrew is not going to "redeem himself". Its most unlikely that he will be able to work agian, and in his private life, I doubt if he is going to become a hard working house husband. He isn't going to go around baby sitting and putting up shelves.. why should he?

 

[Leopoldine]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...tark-finally-talks-romance-Prince-Andrew.html


Apparently Ms. Stark has severe financial issues and is going to write a book about Prince Andrew.

She has come up to bat for him at least once during the current spate of unproven accusations against him, but I fear that she will only be richly rewarded if her account is specific, full of new revelations ... basically a juicy read.

Perhaps this salvo is to signal him and/or BP to help her out?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Ms. Stark is, by most accounts a gentle and kind woman. She and Andrew preserved their friendship. Just because she will write her memoirs does not mean Andrew will come off badly. In fact, I predict it will be just the opposite.

Andrew is probably not losing sleep.

And no...Buckingham Palace will not be paying her a cent. Why should they? Does anyone care about Andrew's almost 40 year ago relationship with Koo Stark?

 

[Denville]

I doubt if Koo has anything much she can say about Andrew that is to his detriment. She is by all accounts a nice woman and didn't ever speak much about her relationship with him... and when they were together years ago, I think that Andrew hadn't become the louche ultra selfish man that he became in later years. I dont think that he had the friendships with dubious millionaires, or the lifestyle of someone procuring women for him.