The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #201  
Old 02-13-2021, 09:00 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
When do they disclose the name? I am careful to know the child's name.
They are not required to release the name until the baby is registered and they have 42 days to do that. If they do not have a name by then the baby still has to be registered and the 'name' left blank.

They will probably release a name in the next few days but it may take a week or more. With Charles it was a month and Edward took longer than the 42 days and Philip was fined for a late registration of birth (the Queen allegedly believed she was having another girl and only had girls names chosen and they took time to decide on a boy's name for Edward).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 02-13-2021, 09:28 PM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,918
Jack and Eugenie probably discussed both boys and girls names over the course of Eugenie's pregnancy. It's always better to wait and see the baby before settling on one of the favorite names under consideration for either gender.

They may have already decided, but are waiting till they are ready to announce. Or else, they're still deciding.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 02-13-2021, 09:37 PM
RJC's Avatar
RJC RJC is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 272
I hope they are thinking that with all the covid negative things happening in the world at the moment the birth of a child is a joyous occasion and imho worth sharing. I hope they can balance that with any privacy concerns. It's just a name and eventually everyone will know what it is. Please tell us!!
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 02-13-2021, 11:38 PM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Until he is 18 when he will become Mister.

Old fashioned but still used for 'formal' names. Peter Phillips was known as Master Peter Phillips until he turned 18.

If Archie were in the UK he may very well be called Master Archie Mountbatten-Windsor rather than just Archie.



Does this mean he won't have a title?
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 02-13-2021, 11:49 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,999
Who, baby Brooksbanks or Archie?

Baby Brooksbanks won't have a (courtesy) title as Jack isn't a Peer.

Archie has a courtesy title as the eldest son of a Duke but his parents don't want him to use it, presumably until adulthood when he can choose. He will be a Duke after Harry's death however, as he will inherit the Sussex dukedom.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 02-14-2021, 12:18 AM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Who, baby Brooksbanks or Archie?

Baby Brooksbanks won't have a (courtesy) title as Jack isn't a Peer.

Archie has a courtesy title as the eldest son of a Duke but his parents don't want him to use it, presumably until adulthood when he can choose. He will be a Duke after Harry's death however, as he will inherit the Sussex dukedom.



Baby Brooksbanks. I was already told Archie has a title. I thought Jack got a title when he married Eugenie. The "master" part confuses me with the babies. Was George announced as "master" George? I can't remember.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 02-14-2021, 01:18 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,999
Jack has no title and was not likely to get one on marriage. George was never a 'master' because he was born a Prince. Master is just a form of address in Britain and a very formal and rather oldfashioned one.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 02-14-2021, 03:44 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,017
Jack, like the husband of Princess Alexandra wasn't given a title on his marriage to Eugenie. Edoardo also wasn't given a title on marriage to Beatrice.

Alexandra is a better precedent for the York girls as, like them, she is a grand daughter of a monarch and a Princess, unlike Anne and Margaret (and Mary) who were all the daughters of a monarch.

Master Brooksbank isn't entitled to any title as his father doesn't have a title and Eugenie, being a girl, can't pass on a title - only males can pass on HRH's and most other titles e.g. as girls neither Beatrice nor Eugenie can inherit their father's titles while Archie and James are both the heirs to their father's titles because they are boys.

When someone has a title they have the option to either use it or not.

Those without titles are referred to as Mr or Miss or Ms or Mrs.

Mr = Master for boys and Mister for adult males
Miss = an unmarried woman - girl or adult woman
Ms = any woman regardless of marital status
Mrs = a married woman

Archie is entitled to use the courtesy title of Earl Dumbarton - Harry's second title as Archie is the heir apparent to the Dukedom of Sussex. That is why James uses Viscount Severn - because he is the heir apparent to the Earldom of Wessex. The substantive titles of Earl Dumbarton and Viscount Severn are held by Harry and Edward respectively but their sons can use them as a courtesy. Harry and Meghan decided that Archie wouldn't use that courtesy title.

Archie is also entitled to be Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor as a male line great-grandchild of a monarch in the same way that Lord Frederick and Lady Gabriella are able to use Lord and Lady - they are male line great-grandchildren of George V via their father Prince Michael of Kent and are able, under the 1917 Letters Patent, to style themselves as the younger children of a Duke. The Duke of Kent's younger children are Lady Helen and Lord Nicholas while his eldest uses the courtesy title Earl of St Andrews.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 02-14-2021, 06:47 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
Does this mean he won't have a title?

No, he won't get a title or honorific prefix unless his father is later made a peer, in which case he would be styled as a peer's son (for example, if Jack became an earl, his son would probably be a courtesy viscount). For practical reasons, it is unlikely, however, that Jack will ever get a peerage. But, who knows, Jack may one day get a baronetcy for example and his firstborn son might inherit it if he outlives his father.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 02-14-2021, 08:03 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
I thought Jack got a title when he married Eugenie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Master Brooksbank isn't entitled to any title as his father doesn't have a title and Eugenie, being a girl, can't pass on a title - only males can pass on HRH's and most other titles e.g. as girls neither Beatrice nor Eugenie can inherit their father's titles while Archie and James are both the heirs to their father's titles because they are boys.
Iluvbertie's excellent explanation applies to Jack as well. Because Eugenie is a woman, she cannot pass on her title to her spouse under the laws which are in place. Had their genders been reversed, Miss Jacqueline Brooksbank would have automatically gotten the title HRH Princess upon marriage to HRH Prince Eugene of York, and she would have been referred to as HRH Princess Eugene of York.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
No, he won't get a title or honorific prefix unless his father is later made a peer, in which case he would be styled as a peer's son (for example, if Jack became an earl, his son would probably be a courtesy viscount). For practical reasons, it is unlikely, however, that Jack will ever get a peerage. But, who knows, Jack may one day get a baronetcy for example and his firstborn son might inherit it if he outlives his father.
Aren't there a substantial number of males ahead of Jack in the line of succession to the Brooksbank baronetcy?

Barring a series of unexpected deaths in the Brooksbank family, and given the current trends in Britain and Europe, I think the least unlikely opportunity for the child to get a title would be some sort of reform, during Baby Brooksbank's lifetime, to equalize the titles of the children/spouses of princesses and the children/spouses of princes, which in my opinion is likelier than a reversion to giving peerages to consorts of junior members of the British royal family. In that scenario, the child would become for example Lord Edward Brooksbank, equivalent to Lord Frederick Windsor.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 02-14-2021, 08:14 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Iluvbertie's excellent explanation applies to Jack as well. Because Eugenie is a woman, she cannot pass on her title to her spou

Barring a series of unexpected deaths in the Brooksbank family, and given the current trends in Britain and Europe, I think the least unlikely opportunity for the child to get a title would be some sort of reform, during Baby Brooksbank's lifetime, to equalize the titles of the children/spouses of princesses and the children/spouses of princes, which in my opinion is likelier than a reversion to giving peerages to consorts of junior members of the British royal family. In that scenario, the child would become for example Lord Edward Brooksbank, equivalent to Lord Frederick Windsor.
Not going to happen. hereditary titles are no longer given in the UK except for the senior male royals who are given a title on marriage.. like William and Harry...
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 02-14-2021, 08:16 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Not going to happen. hereditary titles are no longer given in the UK except for the senior male royals who are given a title on marriage.. like William and Harry...
Which one is not going to happen? I mentioned three scenarios in my post, only one of which would involve giving a hereditary title.
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 02-14-2021, 08:28 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Not going to happen. hereditary titles are no longer given in the UK except for the senior male royals who are given a title on marriage.. like William and Harry...
Correct. The last three hereditary non-royal peerages were created in 1984, when Harold Macmillan was created Earl of Stockton and Viscount Macmillan of Ovenden.

William Whitelaw was created 1st Viscount Whitelaw but had no heir (his daughter married the 3rd Earl of Swinton).

The third gentleman was George Thomas, 1st Viscount Tonypandy. There was no heir either to this Viscountcy.

Most likely the Queen was aware of this circumstance with the last two gentlemen when the three last hereditary peers of her Reign (or of ever?) were created.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 02-14-2021, 09:56 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

Barring a series of unexpected deaths in the Brooksbank family, and given the current trends in Britain and Europe, I think the least unlikely opportunity for the child to get a title would be some sort of reform, during Baby Brooksbank's lifetime, to equalize the titles of the children/spouses of princesses and the children/spouses of princes, which in my opinion is likelier than a reversion to giving peerages to consorts of junior members of the British royal family. In that scenario, the child would become for example Lord Edward Brooksbank, equivalent to Lord Frederick Windsor.

I agree that the least unlikely (but still very unlikely) situation is for royal titles to be passed on as they are now under the 1917 patents but with equal gender so that just as Prince Michael of Kent (a second son and grandson of a King) is able to style his son and daughter Lord and Lady, so would Eugenie. That would also mean Beatrice would inherit the Duchess of York title.

That is very unlikely to happen. If there's still a monarchy but the time it affects Charlotte's potential future children it might be possible ala Madeleine of Sweden but it probably wouldn't be retroactive for previously born children.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 02-14-2021, 10:08 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
That is very unlikely to happen. If there's still a monarchy but the time it affects Charlotte's potential future children it might be possible ala Madeleine of Sweden but it probably wouldn't be retroactive for previously born children.
In regards to royal (HRH Princess) titles I agree with you, but if a reform of nonroyal courtesy titles were to happen in the future, I think it is plausible that it would apply to children born previously (though probably only from the moment the reform comes into effect, rather than retroactively). That is what happened when the courtesy titles of daughters and younger sons of peers (Lady, Lord, and the Honourable) were expanded to children who were legitimated by their parents' subsequent marriage, for example.

It is very unlikely to happen within the near future, but as Master Brooksbank is likely to live into the 22nd century I don't think it is hugely unlikely to happen during his lifetime.
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 02-14-2021, 12:39 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
.
Aren't there a substantial number of males ahead of Jack in the line of succession to the Brooksbank baronetcy?

I wasn't thinking about succession to the existing Brooksbank baronetcy, but rather on the possibility of a new baronetcy created specifically for Jack as the baronetcy that was created for example for Margaret Thatcher's husband Denis and is now held by her son Mark.


Margaret Thatcher herself was allegedly offered an earldom, but declined it. Ultimately she became a life peeress like many retired British politicians.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 02-14-2021, 01:54 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 2,809
Bertie mentioned Princess Alexandra’s husband, Angus Ogilvy. Apparently he was offered an earldom, but declined it because he “couldn’t afford the lifestyle of an earl”. I remember reading this many years ago, and I was always a bit amused by it. Earls aren’t allowed to be modest and low key?
__________________
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.”

Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 02-14-2021, 02:01 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


Aren't there a substantial number of males ahead of Jack in the line of succession to the Brooksbank baronetcy?


Barring a series of unexpected deaths in the Brooksbank family, and given the current trends in Britain and Europe, I think the least unlikely opportunity for the child to get a title would be some sort of reform, during Baby Brooksbank's lifetime, to equalize the titles of the children/spouses of princesses and the children/spouses of princes, which in my opinion is likelier than a reversion to giving peerages to consorts of junior members of the British royal family. In that scenario, the child would become for example Lord Edward Brooksbank, equivalent to Lord Frederick Windsor.
There are 5 people ahead of him.

The current Baronet has one son Florian. Then the title passes to the line of Stamp Brooksbank, but George is the younger son. Jack's Uncle David and his two sons are 2-4 in line, and then George is 5th.


I think there will be a reform. Either that only the heir to the throne receives a title on marriage, or all children do. But it will only apply to the children of William and then on. So either Charlotte will be treated equally to her brothers and be given a title on marriage of her own, or Louis will not be given one. But this will not effect the York girls.


I think rightfully the days of a woman's husband being given a peerage are over. There is no reason the peerage should not be given to the daughters instead of their husbands.
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 02-14-2021, 02:03 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Bertie mentioned Princess Alexandra’s husband, Angus Ogilvy. Apparently he was offered an earldom, but declined it because he “couldn’t afford the lifestyle of an earl”. I remember reading this many years ago, and I was always a bit amused by it. Earls aren’t allowed to be modest and low key?
Many of them are quite cash poor and/or have sold their ancestral homes. Many do live more modestly and low key than rich celebrities for example.

Angus Ogilvy was the second son of an Earl and his mother was the daughter of an Earl (interestingly maternally from the Earls of Leicester who Jack Brooksbank is also descended from via his grandmother). So rather than not being able to afford an Earldom be probably just didn't want one.
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 02-14-2021, 02:07 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 29,730
A wild guess but possible Nicholas Brooksbank in honour of Jack's mother?
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
baby names, jack brooksbank, princess eugenie


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Potential Names and Godparents for Madeleine and Chris's First Child principessa Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family 165 02-26-2014 07:03 AM




Popular Tags
abdication america anastasia 2020 background story biography bridal gown britain britannia british royal family buckingham palace canada china chinese commonwealth countries countess of snowdon daisy dna doge of venice doll dubai duke of cambridge duke of sussex elizabeth ii emperor facts family life fantasy movie fashion and style george vi hereditary grand duke guillaume intro italian royal family jack brooksbank jewellery king willem-alexander książ castle line of succession list of rulers mary: crown princess of denmark names nepalese royal jewels plantinum jubilee prince charles of luxembourg prince constantijn prince dimitri prince harry princess ariane princess catharina-amalia queen louise queen mathilde queen maxima random facts royal ancestry royal court royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royal wedding royal wedding gown serbian royal family solomon j solomon speech stuart suthida taiwan thailand uae customs united states of america wales


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×