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  #321  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:51 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
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Many women who take their husband's name, choose to use their maiden name in their business life. If they started out and are known by their maiden name, they often choose to use it officially.

While they are not working royals, their charity work is very much a part of their identity. They have made a name for themselves and their work as Princess Beatrice of York or Eugenie of York. Its also what they are recognized as easily, not Mrs Brooksbank or Mrs/Countess Mozzi.

Even modern women who take their husband's names don't go by the old style. Back in the day Jane Doe married John Smith she would be Mrs John Smith. For the past how many decades, she would simply be Mrs Jane Smith. No need to abandon your own identity, ditching your given name, simply as you took your husband's surname.

It may be that they are modern women keeping their maiden styling. Or they simply choose to use their old styling in a professional sense. Either way I don't see any issue with.
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  #322  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I am very surprised on how long the Court and Firm took to be consistent and certain on Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie's formal addresses.
From the cited examples, the Firm appears to be inconsistent even now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Going back to Jack Brooksbank, I found this in Jack Brooksbank's wikipedia page:
Contrary to press speculation that Brooksbank would be created "Earl of Northallerton", he has not been elevated to the peerage after marrying into the royal family, following a trend in recent years for a male commoner not to be awarded one upon marriage to a princess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brooksbank


The two citations did not mentioned "Earl of Northallerton" at all, so I am just wondering where did Wikipedia get this information from
The person who wrote that paragraph was most likely thinking of this Daily Mail article. The article frames it as speculation and in the end states that he will not receive a peerage.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html


After the wedding, there was speculation on the possibility of a new title for Princess Eugenie and/or her husband based on a tweet (which is still unexplained) from a royal reporter who appeared to have sources inside the office of the Duke of York, as he reported several announcements relating to the wedding before they were made public.

https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...66336312438785

It was discussed earlier in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Looks like there might be a title coming for Eugenie and Jack?? As of today she is still to be called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not Brooksbank). However, it seems that might not remain the case in the near future ...

Via Chris Ship ITV Twitter
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  #323  
Old 09-08-2020, 04:07 AM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
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Where does the title Earl of Northallerton come from?
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  #324  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:42 AM
AC21091968's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Where does the title Earl of Northallerton come from?
At this point, I do not have a definitive answer.

From looking at the two citations from Jack's wikipedia page, "Earl of Northallerton" was not mentioned

Jack Brooksband's wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brooksbank

The two links:
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...k-royal-title/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...le/1594927002/

I do think "Earl of Northallerton" was mentioned in these articles, but was later deleted.

From the Dailymail article that Tatiana Maria has kindly shared, someone close to Princess Eugenie and Jack Brooksbank may have somehow leak the possibility of an Earldom to the press. Or the "Earl of Northallerton" title might have been speculation. Like the previous two articles, Daily Mail could have also deleted "Earl of Northallerton".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

At the end of the day, I don't think the name of the Earldom title matter, given that Jack was not gifted one upon his marriage just like other male commoners in recent years. It will be interesting on the future plans for Princess Charlotte's husband.

P.s. I do think Wikipedia should remove the speculation of "Earl of Northallerton" from Jack's wikipedia page, because none of the cited sources mention it
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  #325  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Like the previous two articles, Daily Mail could have also deleted "Earl of Northallerton".
Isn't the mention still in the Daily Mail article?

"A representative for the Yorks tells me that Jack, 32, will not be granted the vacant title Earl of Northallerton – as has been whispered in recent weeks – meaning the Queen’s granddaughter will be known as HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

The article gives no description of the source of these supposed "whispers".
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  #326  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Isn't the mention still in the Daily Mail article?

"A representative for the Yorks tells me that Jack, 32, will not be granted the vacant title Earl of Northallerton – as has been whispered in recent weeks – meaning the Queen’s granddaughter will be known as HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

The article gives no description of the source of these supposed "whispers".
Oops, my bad. I have not been reading closely enough.

Apologies for the confusion.
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  #327  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:45 AM
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There was never any chance of Jack B getting an earldom or any title..
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  #328  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:32 AM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
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The Express article refers to Jack as James Brooksbank.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/992532
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  #329  
Old 09-09-2020, 05:17 AM
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I guess its a typo....
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  #330  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think that calling them HRH Princess xx, Mrs. [Husband's name and surname] is the right thing to do to be consistent with British styles even though I know it was not done e.g. for Princess Margaret until her husband became an earl.
Is it the right thing to do if it is not what they, themselves, wish to be called? (We don't have definitive knowledge of their thoughts on the issue, but based on all of the citations provided earlier in this thread, Princess Eugenie has continued to call herself "of York" and has never once called herself "Mrs. Jack Brooksbank" since her wedding.) Surely the right thing to do is to call a woman by whichever surname (or in this case, territorial designation) she wishes to be called by.
Apparently there is at least one precedent for the wishes of a married woman taking priority over consistency with British customary styles. In 2018, an MP was rebuked by the Speaker of the House of Commons for addressing another MP, against her wishes, by her "correct" title as the wife of her husband.
Boris Johnson has apologised after referring to the shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, as “Lady Nugee”. The Speaker of the House of Commons said the references, in relation to Thornberry’s husband, Sir Christopher Nugee, were sexist and inappropriate.

[...]

Bercow interrupted Johnson: “First, we do not name call in this chamber, and secondly ... we do not address people by the titles of their spouses. The shadow foreign secretary has a name and it is not ‘Lady Something’.
Having said that, the Queen possesses many more powers and prerogatives than a mere MP, and I imagine that if the Queen had been the one to address Emily Thornberry as Lady Nugee, the Speaker of the House of Commons would not have responded to her in the same manner.

Relatedly, I have the impression that Princess Eugenie has been reducing her usage of "of York" recently.
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  #331  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:43 AM
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My guess is during her daily life her title is not really used.


LaRae
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  #332  
Old 01-13-2021, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Apparently there is at least one precedent for the wishes of a married woman taking priority over consistency with British customary styles. In 2018, an MP was rebuked by the Speaker of the House of Commons for addressing another MP, against her wishes, by her "correct" title as the wife of her husband.
Boris Johnson has apologised after referring to the shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, as “Lady Nugee”. The Speaker of the House of Commons said the references, in relation to Thornberry’s husband, Sir Christopher Nugee, were sexist and inappropriate.

[...]

Bercow interrupted Johnson: “First, we do not name call in this chamber, and secondly ... we do not address people by the titles of their spouses. The shadow foreign secretary has a name and it is not ‘Lady Something’.
Having said that, the Queen possesses many more powers and prerogatives than a mere MP, and I imagine that if the Queen had been the one to address Emily Thornberry as Lady Nugee, the Speaker of the House of Commons would not have responded to her in the same manner.

Relatedly, I have the impression that Princess Eugenie has been reducing her usage of "of York" recently.
There was a lot more going on there than protocol. The Queen is only likely to address Emily Thornberry as anything if she came to a function or banquet at BP, probably with her husband, In that case they probably would be addressed on the envelope as The Rt Hon. Lord Justice Nugee and Lady Nugee.

Debretts seems to say that legal titles aren't used socially so socially speaking it might just be Sir Christopher and Lady Nugee. And given that it is Emily Thornberry she might still officially be just Emily Thornberry, MP anyway.

I do think Eugenie might shift to definitely HRH Princess Eugenie but not sure about the Mrs Brooksbank part.
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  #333  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
There was a lot more going on there than protocol. The Queen is only likely to address Emily Thornberry as anything if she came to a function or banquet at BP, probably with her husband, In that case they probably would be addressed on the envelope as The Rt Hon. Lord Justice Nugee and Lady Nugee.

Debretts seems to say that legal titles aren't used socially so socially speaking it might just be Sir Christopher and Lady Nugee. And given that it is Emily Thornberry she might still officially be just Emily Thornberry, MP anyway.

I do think Eugenie might shift to definitely HRH Princess Eugenie but not sure about the Mrs Brooksbank part.
I think it all depends on whether Eugenie wants to use her husband's surname in a royal and social setting or how the royal staff determine on her style of address (This is assuming that Jack will not get title and remain Mr. Jack Brooksbank). Professionally at work, she is still refer as Eugenie York, which is understandable and possibly more convenient to not change surname after marriage. When Lady Gabriella Kingston was releasing her music for charity last year, she was Ella Windsor, given that she was already writing songs before her marriage.

For Emily Thornberry, I think she never used her husband surname in politics even before her husband was knighted. She was Emily Thornberry when she was elected as a MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 (Apologies for the text and website, I originally find the source from wikipedia). Christopher Nugee was knighted in the 2014 Special Honours. I'm unsure what she is refer as (Ms. Thornberry?)

Quote:
Islington South and Finsbury;Emily Thornberry;11;Islington;57748;4594;12345;11861;0;0;2161
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...ata_2005ob.txt

Theresa May (née Brasier) however has used her husband surname in politics. She was refer as Mrs. May when she was in the front bench and Prime Minister. When her husband was knighted last year, technically she becomes Lady May, but I have not heard the media refer to her that way.
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