Jack Brooksbank: Is there a Title in his future?

[Countessmeout]

Many women who take their husband's name, choose to use their maiden name in their business life. If they started out and are known by their maiden name, they often choose to use it officially.

While they are not working royals, their charity work is very much a part of their identity. They have made a name for themselves and their work as Princess Beatrice of York or Eugenie of York. Its also what they are recognized as easily, not Mrs Brooksbank or Mrs/Countess Mozzi.

Even modern women who take their husband's names don't go by the old style. Back in the day Jane Doe married John Smith she would be Mrs John Smith. For the past how many decades, she would simply be Mrs Jane Smith. No need to abandon your own identity, ditching your given name, simply as you took your husband's surname.

It may be that they are modern women keeping their maiden styling. Or they simply choose to use their old styling in a professional sense. Either way I don't see any issue with.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by AC21091968

I am very surprised on how long the Court and Firm took to be consistent and certain on Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie's formal addresses.

From the cited examples, the Firm appears to be inconsistent even now.

Originally Posted by AC21091968

Going back to Jack Brooksbank, I found this in Jack Brooksbank's wikipedia page:

Contrary to press speculation that Brooksbank would be created "Earl of Northallerton", he has not been elevated to the peerage after marrying into the royal family, following a trend in recent years for a male commoner not to be awarded one upon marriage to a princess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brooksbank


The two citations did not mentioned "Earl of Northallerton" at all, so I am just wondering where did Wikipedia get this information from

The person who wrote that paragraph was most likely thinking of this Daily Mail article. The article frames it as speculation and in the end states that he will not receive a peerage.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html


After the wedding, there was speculation on the possibility of a new title for Princess Eugenie and/or her husband based on a tweet (which is still unexplained) from a royal reporter who appeared to have sources inside the office of the Duke of York, as he reported several announcements relating to the wedding before they were made public.

https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...66336312438785

It was discussed earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Rudolph

Looks like there might be a title coming for Eugenie and Jack?? As of today she is still to be called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not Brooksbank). However, it seems that might not remain the case in the near future ...

Via Chris Ship ITV Twitter

[CyrilVladisla]

Where does the title Earl of Northallerton come from?

[AC21091968]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Where does the title Earl of Northallerton come from?

At this point, I do not have a definitive answer.

From looking at the two citations from Jack's wikipedia page, "Earl of Northallerton" was not mentioned

Jack Brooksband's wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brooksbank

The two links:
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...k-royal-title/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...le/1594927002/

I do think "Earl of Northallerton" was mentioned in these articles, but was later deleted.

From the Dailymail article that Tatiana Maria has kindly shared, someone close to Princess Eugenie and Jack Brooksbank may have somehow leak the possibility of an Earldom to the press. Or the "Earl of Northallerton" title might have been speculation. Like the previous two articles, Daily Mail could have also deleted "Earl of Northallerton".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

At the end of the day, I don't think the name of the Earldom title matter, given that Jack was not gifted one upon his marriage just like other male commoners in recent years. It will be interesting on the future plans for Princess Charlotte's husband.

P.s. I do think Wikipedia should remove the speculation of "Earl of Northallerton" from Jack's wikipedia page, because none of the cited sources mention it

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by AC21091968

Like the previous two articles, Daily Mail could have also deleted "Earl of Northallerton".

Isn't the mention still in the Daily Mail article?

"A representative for the Yorks tells me that Jack, 32, will not be granted the vacant title Earl of Northallerton – as has been whispered in recent weeks – meaning the Queen’s granddaughter will be known as HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

The article gives no description of the source of these supposed "whispers".

[AC21091968]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Isn't the mention still in the Daily Mail article?

"A representative for the Yorks tells me that Jack, 32, will not be granted the vacant title Earl of Northallerton – as has been whispered in recent weeks – meaning the Queen’s granddaughter will be known as HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-commoner.html

The article gives no description of the source of these supposed "whispers".

Oops, my bad. I have not been reading closely enough.

Apologies for the confusion.

[Denville]

There was never any chance of Jack B getting an earldom or any title..

[CyrilVladisla]

The Express article refers to Jack as James Brooksbank.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/992532

[Denville]

I guess its a typo....

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Is it the right thing to do if it is not what they, themselves, wish to be called? (We don't have definitive knowledge of their thoughts on the issue, but based on all of the citations provided earlier in this thread, Princess Eugenie has continued to call herself "of York" and has never once called herself "Mrs. Jack Brooksbank" since her wedding.) Surely the right thing to do is to call a woman by whichever surname (or in this case, territorial designation) she wishes to be called by.

Apparently there is at least one precedent for the wishes of a married woman taking priority over consistency with British customary styles. In 2018, an MP was rebuked by the Speaker of the House of Commons for addressing another MP, against her wishes, by her "correct" title as the wife of her husband.

Boris Johnson has apologised after referring to the shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, as “Lady Nugee”. The Speaker of the House of Commons said the references, in relation to Thornberry’s husband, Sir Christopher Nugee, were sexist and inappropriate.

[...]

Bercow interrupted Johnson: “First, we do not name call in this chamber, and secondly ... we do not address people by the titles of their spouses. The shadow foreign secretary has a name and it is not ‘Lady Something’.

Having said that, the Queen possesses many more powers and prerogatives than a mere MP, and I imagine that if the Queen had been the one to address Emily Thornberry as Lady Nugee, the Speaker of the House of Commons would not have responded to her in the same manner.

Relatedly, I have the impression that Princess Eugenie has been reducing her usage of "of York" recently.

[Pranter]

My guess is during her daily life her title is not really used.


LaRae

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Apparently there is at least one precedent for the wishes of a married woman taking priority over consistency with British customary styles. In 2018, an MP was rebuked by the Speaker of the House of Commons for addressing another MP, against her wishes, by her "correct" title as the wife of her husband.

Boris Johnson has apologised after referring to the shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, as “Lady Nugee”. The Speaker of the House of Commons said the references, in relation to Thornberry’s husband, Sir Christopher Nugee, were sexist and inappropriate.

[...]

Bercow interrupted Johnson: “First, we do not name call in this chamber, and secondly ... we do not address people by the titles of their spouses. The shadow foreign secretary has a name and it is not ‘Lady Something’.

Having said that, the Queen possesses many more powers and prerogatives than a mere MP, and I imagine that if the Queen had been the one to address Emily Thornberry as Lady Nugee, the Speaker of the House of Commons would not have responded to her in the same manner.

Relatedly, I have the impression that Princess Eugenie has been reducing her usage of "of York" recently.

There was a lot more going on there than protocol. The Queen is only likely to address Emily Thornberry as anything if she came to a function or banquet at BP, probably with her husband, In that case they probably would be addressed on the envelope as The Rt Hon. Lord Justice Nugee and Lady Nugee.

Debretts seems to say that legal titles aren't used socially so socially speaking it might just be Sir Christopher and Lady Nugee. And given that it is Emily Thornberry she might still officially be just Emily Thornberry, MP anyway.

I do think Eugenie might shift to definitely HRH Princess Eugenie but not sure about the Mrs Brooksbank part.

[AC21091968]

Originally Posted by Heavs

There was a lot more going on there than protocol. The Queen is only likely to address Emily Thornberry as anything if she came to a function or banquet at BP, probably with her husband, In that case they probably would be addressed on the envelope as The Rt Hon. Lord Justice Nugee and Lady Nugee.

Debretts seems to say that legal titles aren't used socially so socially speaking it might just be Sir Christopher and Lady Nugee. And given that it is Emily Thornberry she might still officially be just Emily Thornberry, MP anyway.

I do think Eugenie might shift to definitely HRH Princess Eugenie but not sure about the Mrs Brooksbank part.

I think it all depends on whether Eugenie wants to use her husband's surname in a royal and social setting or how the royal staff determine on her style of address (This is assuming that Jack will not get title and remain Mr. Jack Brooksbank). Professionally at work, she is still refer as Eugenie York, which is understandable and possibly more convenient to not change surname after marriage. When Lady Gabriella Kingston was releasing her music for charity last year, she was Ella Windsor, given that she was already writing songs before her marriage.

For Emily Thornberry, I think she never used her husband surname in politics even before her husband was knighted. She was Emily Thornberry when she was elected as a MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 (Apologies for the text and website, I originally find the source from wikipedia). Christopher Nugee was knighted in the 2014 Special Honours. I'm unsure what she is refer as (Ms. Thornberry?)

Islington South and Finsbury;Emily Thornberry;11;Islington;57748;4594;12345;11861;0;0;2161

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...ata_2005ob.txt

Theresa May (née Brasier) however has used her husband surname in politics. She was refer as Mrs. May when she was in the front bench and Prime Minister. When her husband was knighted last year, technically she becomes Lady May, but I have not heard the media refer to her that way.

[Tatiana Maria]

In early 2021, the Line of Succession listing was modified to refer to the princesses as Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank.

https://www.royal.uk/succession

Originally Posted by AC21091968

As Co-founders of the Anti-slavery Collective, Princess Eugenie and Julia de Boinville visited Caritas Bakhita House, a place that provides women escaping human trafficking with support they needed in the recovery process.

@caritas_westminster
“We were pleased to have Princess Eugenie and Julia de Boinville for a second visit to the House. Modern Slavery is too big an issue for any single group to tackle alone so we welcome the work of the Anti-Slavery Collective in raising awareness and strengthening coalitions.” Karen Anstiss, Caritas Bakhita House Manager

Last week, HRH Princess Eugenie and Julia de Boinville, co-founders of the @the_anti_slavery_collective visited Caritas Bakhita House, a place which provides women escaping #HumanTrafficking with the safety and support needed to allow them to begin the recovery process.

We thank the team at Caritas Bakhita House for the incredible work they do, as well as the team at The Anti-Slavery Collective, whose mission is to bring change-makers together to raise awareness for modern slavery as a global epidemic.

To read more about the visit, click the link in our bio followed by News/Events!

#MakeADifference #LoveInAction #EndModernSlavery

📸 The Anti-Slavery Collective

1d

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQgmk-vLnsa/

Originally Posted by AC21091968

On #WorldDayAgainstChildLabour Day, Princess Eugenie and Julia de Boinville, co-founders of The Anti-Slavery Collective spoke about the importance of working towards ending child labour and being educated about these issues.

@the_anti_slavery_collective
TODAY is #WorldDayAgainstChildLabour 🌎 Hear HRH Princess Eugenie (@princesseugenie) and Julia de Boinville, co-founders of The Anti-Slavery Collective, speak on the importance of working towards ending child labour and educating ourselves on the issues.

[Description: Video of HRH Princess Eugenie and Julia de Boineville]
3h

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQA5dekn0CK/

It is interesting that Princess Eugenie consistently used the "of York" designation for her anti-slavery campaigning for the first two years or thereabouts after her marriage, but has dropped it in the past few months. I wonder if anything in particular (e.g., the birth of her son) prompted the change.

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

In early 2021, the Line of Succession listing was modified to refer to the princesses as Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank.

https://www.royal.uk/succession






It is interesting that Princess Eugenie consistently used the "of York" designation for her anti-slavery campaigning for the first two years or thereabouts after her marriage, but has dropped it in the past few months. I wonder if anything in particular (e.g., the birth of her son) prompted the change.

Could the "of York" have been dropped because the press might start referring to August as August of York?

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by AC21091968

I think it all depends on whether Eugenie wants to use her husband's surname in a royal and social setting or how the royal staff determine on her style of address (This is assuming that Jack will not get title and remain Mr. Jack Brooksbank). Professionally at work, she is still refer as Eugenie York, which is understandable and possibly more convenient to not change surname after marriage. When Lady Gabriella Kingston was releasing her music for charity last year, she was Ella Windsor, given that she was already writing songs before her marriage.

For Emily Thornberry, I think she never used her husband surname in politics even before her husband was knighted. She was Emily Thornberry when she was elected as a MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 (Apologies for the text and website, I originally find the source from wikipedia). Christopher Nugee was knighted in the 2014 Special Honours. I'm unsure what she is refer as (Ms. Thornberry?)


https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...ata_2005ob.txt

Theresa May (née Brasier) however has used her husband surname in politics. She was refer as Mrs. May when she was in the front bench and Prime Minister. When her husband was knighted last year, technically she becomes Lady May, but I have not heard the media refer to her that way.

Same as with Mrs. Thatcher, who as wife of Sir Denis, was already Lady Thatcher for a long time, before the media addressed her as such after she was created a baroness in her own right.