Future York Weddings

[muriel]

There is no difference - they were both aimed at raising money for charity.

You claimed that by doing this Beatrice had lowered herself to her mother's level - well I disagree. Diana sold her clothes and the time between wearing them and selling is immaterial - either both did something good in auctioning them for charity or they are both cheap acts.

The fact that Diana waited years is not relevant to the fact that years later her neice by marriage followed her example.

I fully agree with IluvBertie. Both Diana and Beatrice need to be lauded for raising funding for their chosen charities.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

The fact that Diana waited years before auctionning her dresses might not be relevant to you but it is to me.

Maybe it's just a question of personal perception - I am absolutely not at ease with the fact that a royal princess (Bea) wore a ridiculous Mickey Mouse-shaped hat at the wedding of her cousin just so she can get some attention to herself on that special day that was NOT hers and later when commented of her poor choice decided to auction it for charity.

I see only two options here: she either showed poor judgement (choice of the horrible thing she put on her head) and tried to repair it or she had planned everything and showed poor family sense by using the wedding in her calculations (I would feel sorry if family members were to use me for their own profit - rest in peace this is not about to happen).



Just me but as a woman I know that you should not wear anything that would distract the attention from the bride. Bea's hat was in my opinoin a distraction (personnally when watching I almost dropped my coffee and wondered what the hell what that and find myself looking only for that horrible thing just to confirm what I had seen.

 

[Osipi]

Maybe it's just a question of personal perception - I am absolutely not at ease with the fact that a royal princess (Bea) wore a ridiculous Mickey Mouse-shaped hat at the wedding of her cousin just so she can get some attention to herself on that special day that was NOT hers and later when commented of her poor choice decided to auction it for charity.

I don't think that Beatrice had any intention of doing anything other than dressing nicely for her cousin's wedding. The outfit she wore I thought was quite attractive and I think she probably trusted Phillip Treacy to make her a hat to compliment it. For all we know, she could have cringed at seeing that hat for the first time. I don't think Beatrice has the personality that could demand Treacy to make something different (especially with all the demands on Treacy hats for this wedding.

This hat sort of created a sensation all by itself similar to the Egyptian cobra that escaped from the Bronx zoo (had his own Facebook page and folks voted to name the snake Mia). What had happened at this time was an opportunity to jump into the Hatabaloo. Beatrice could have just slunk under the covers and been embarrassed by all this but she chose to use it in a very positive way for charity. I found that quite remarkable.

My question now though is... what is the person gonna do with that hat after spending so much money for it?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't think that Beatrice had any intention of doing anything other than dressing nicely for her cousin's wedding. The outfit she wore I thought was quite attractive and I think she probably trusted Phillip Treacy to make her a hat to compliment it. For all we know, she could have cringed at seeing that hat for the first time. I don't think Beatrice has the personality that could demand Treacy to make something different (especially with all the demands on Treacy hats for this wedding.

This hat sort of created a sensation all by itself similar to the Egyptian cobra that escaped from the Bronx zoo (had his own Facebook page and folks voted to name the snake Mia). What had happened at this time was an opportunity to jump into the Hatabaloo. Beatrice could have just slunk under the covers and been embarrassed by all this but she chose to use it in a very positive way for charity. I found that quite remarkable.

My question now though is... what is the person gonna do with that hat after spending so much money for it?

That is exactly how I see the situation.

It has been reported that she only had one fitting with the hat but that she has already said that she will be having three for Zara's wedding.

She trusted Treacy to create a hat that would complement her outfit - and in some ways it did - colour etc but it was too large - that design but smaller might have worked but...would it have created the interest that gained it the notoriety to be auctioned for two very worthy causes.

 

[rmay286]

I think that we are off-topic for this thread, but I've thought the same thing...Beatrice's outfit was nice, so why was the hat so outlandish? It doesn't make sense. Her fashion sense isn't perfect, but not nearly that bad normally.

I don't think Beatrice has the personality that could demand Treacy to make something different (especially with all the demands on Treacy hats for this wedding.

Yes, I think you are right - she probably didn't know what to do when she received the hat except to say "thank you." I guess I wonder why any hat designer would make that kind of hat for a royal wedding, too. Beatrice did a great job of turning the situation around, though. I love that the hat sold for so much money!

 

[Mirabel]

Yes, I think you are right - she probably didn't know what to do when she received the hat except to say "thank you." I guess I wonder why any hat designer would make that kind of hat for a royal wedding, too. Beatrice did a great job of turning the situation around, though. I love that the hat sold for so much money!

I think she just likes outlandish hats. And really, her outfit got more attention than anyone's, with the exception of the bride herself and Pippa.

 

[Renata4711]

It's a seemingly intractable problem.

However, what will happen when Beatrice decides to marry her beau ?

Sarah would be the bride's mother, and there would be a public outcry if Fergie were to be ousted from her own daughter's wedding.

 

[HRH Princess Sonya]

It's a seemingly intractable problem.

However, what will happen when Beatrice decides to marry her beau ?

Sarah would be the bride's mother, and there would be a public outcry if Fergie were to be ousted from her own daughter's wedding.

No of course she should not be outsted from her daughter's wedding. I was just saying since she seems to be desprite to get back in the royal fold she might use the inch she is given in as mother of the bride and try and take a mile with it.

 

[Irish Eyes]

It's a seemingly intractable problem.

However, what will happen when Beatrice decides to marry her beau ?

Sarah would be the bride's mother, and there would be a public outcry if Fergie were to be ousted from her own daughter's wedding.

I may be in the minority here, but for me Sarah living at Royal Lodge isn't the big issue (if they enjoy each other's company and still want to do things as a family on occasion that's their decision). The biggest problem for everyone involved is Sarah's finances, what work can she do commerically to earn a living that won't cause embarrassment, or bring negative media attention and headlines to her own family and/or the BRF.
It's her finances, her lifestyle, her debts and her money making schemes that reflects on Andrew badly, not that she has a room in his house.

Ref her daughters future weddings, of course Sarah should be there.
I agree that it's the one occasion that Fergie would have public support if there were any question of her being banned. I think it's more likely that any senior members of the Royal family who don't want to be in Sarah's company will send their excuses. HM and the DoE are both elderly and all the rest have very busy lives with full diaries. However I would like to think that they would be above all that.

 

[Mermaid1962]

That won't happen.

Sarah would be the bride's mother, and there would be a public outcry if Fergie were to be ousted from her own daughter's wedding.

 

[Meadow]

Thanks so much for answering my question. I think Sarah puts a lot of stock in her title and is well aware the americans and most people wouldn't realise the difference. I think the Queen would be alright but very careful at either Beatrice or Eugenie's wedding. Sarah would need to be on her best behaviour but not so sure it would last long after the wedding! Sarah can regret the divorce all she wants she bought that upon herself and didn't really get much choice. The problem with the Queen even giving her a grace and favour house doesn't solve Sarah's financial problems I also think she would expect it to be refurbished etc and it would cost a fortune. I remember the horrible Sunninghill Park it ended up way over budget because of the ridicules things Sarah wanted and her taste is just bad. Besides she would still need to pay rent and she seems to have a problem with that and she wants a full staff something else she can't afford. Much easier to live with Andrew and let him to continue to pay all her bills! If he threw her out she could always go live with Beatrice she has an apartment at St James the Queen gave her.

 

[Diarist]

It's a seemingly intractable problem.

However, what will happen when Beatrice decides to marry her beau ?

Sarah would be the bride's mother, and there would be a public outcry if Fergie were to be ousted from her own daughter's wedding.

What follows is speculation on my part, but perhaps some of you 'Sarah' experts would like to consider this:

In my humble opinion, there would never be any problem about Sarah attending her own daughters' weddings, which of course she should very properly do as 'mother-of-the-bride'. And the main reason I can think of in support of my contention is two-fold:-

1. BP is expert at managing 'tricky' marital 'situations' in weddings. Of courte, TRF did not exist at the time of course for us to discuss this, but I can well remember how people were very concerned at the time of Diana's wedding as to whether matters would go smoothly because of the fact that Diana's parents were divorced. It all sounds a bit tame 30 years on, but believe me, there was very real concern about how two people [Earl Spencer and the Hon Mrs Shand Kydd] who had had one of the most acrimonious divorces of the 1960's would be able to be placed together in the same room; there was similar concern at the time of the wedding of Sarah and Andrew in view of the very acrimonious parting of her parents. [Both coupled had apparently not even spoken more than a dozen words to each other after their respective partings, even with the welfare of their children to discuss.....] Yet, in both cases, both weddings passed off superbly and without incident.

2. The second reason is this: I would not be surprised if the wedding was structured in such a way as to cause minimal problems, the problem being the 'prominence of Sarah' [as MOB] being in the prescence of Prince Phillip and the Queen. Please read on:

Over the years, if you ask me the ONE thing that I have noted about Royal Weddings over the course of the Queen's Reign, is how they have 'evolved' over the years, with some quite staggering changes but without people realising this: During the first 30 years of Queen's reign, the typical Royal Family Wedding took place in the morning in London, usually at Westminster Abbey, followed by a relatively small 'wedding breakfast' usually in BP and attended by a minority of guests; typically the Royal Family and close members of the bride's/bridegroom's family. Most of the guests at the religious ceremony - even if quite close friends of the bride/bridegroom tended not to be invited to the wedding breakfast. Everything was very formal. [The Duchess of Kent, a proud Yorkshire lass, had her wedding in the very grand York Minster in Yorkshire and of course Princess Michael had to marry abroad because of the fact that she was divorced]. With these two exceptions, everything continued to follow the usual pattern until Edward married Sophie.

I rate this wedding as the most 'important' in the reign of the Queen, because to me it marked an enormous sea-change: the ceremony took place in Windsor, AND in the late afternoon, many more 'ordinary guests' attended the reception, and the Royal couple even deemed that the guests were NOT to wear hats. At the time, I thought that this was revolutionary. These changes were almost unheard of, although people did not seem to comment on it...

Now look at Catherine and William's bash: it was back to Westminster Abbey for the Church Service, but to me, the Receptions were amazing: first a buffet [not a formal sit-down wedding breakfast] and then an evening party - indeed, the overriding memory for me was that the wedding seemed as close as possible to the typical sort of wedding enjoyed by the couple's [non-royal] friends, albeit very wealthy friends: the emphasis was, for a lot of the time, on C+W 'celebrating' with their friends. And since nothing 'untoward' evidently happened, I should imagine that the Queen will have taken note that a slightly less formal approach works....

And I imagine that pattern of informality is going to mark Zara's wedding in a few weeks' time:


Right, finally to Beatrice. If she marries Dave Clarke, I reckon that it won't take place next year [would clash with Jublilee and indeed the Olympics]. That leaves 2013/2014. NB HM is going to be around 87/88 then and the Duke 93/94.

What we know about Dave is that he works for Richard Branson [Virgin] and is Anglo American:

On this basis, I could well see Richard Branson lending out his Necker Island to Dave and Beatrice for a wedding ceremony. Don't forget that B+D are a cosmopolitan couple. And don't forget that many American weddings take place away from a church, e.g. at the bride's home, although of course a religious ceremony could be held. The young couple's guests could be flown in by Branson from NY and London. [he owns an airline]. Andrew and Sarah would of course be there, and very probably William and Catherine, Harry, Zara and her husband, possibily Camilla [but not Charles - who will be said to be unavoidably committed elsewhere but in reality to minimise any 'embarrasment re Sarah'] and not the Queen or the Duke, who, it could be announced are 'not travelling because of their ages' etc.

And then, a few weeks after the wedding, the Queen could host an Evening Reception for the newlyweds at (say) St James's Palace, and after posing with the newlyweds and close members of the Royal Family for a photo, she and Philip could slip away 'to leave the dancing and merrymaking to the young people'. This would mean minimal exposure to Sarah [if she was still causing 'trouble'] but would enable 'good form' to be maintained.

Ok, all of the above is pure speculation, but do you see what I mean? It's really quite easy to maintain correct form and dignity and give Beatrice and the Yorks their due without causing any undue grief.

Only my thoughts of course, and not meant to offend!

Alex

 

[Mermaid1962]

I wonder whether there's a BP courtier on here taking notes?

The young couple's guests could be flown in by Branson from NY and London. [he owns an airline]. Andrew and Sarah would of course be there, and very probably William and Catherine, Harry, Zara and her husband, possibily Camilla [but not Charles - who will be said to be unavoidably committed elsewhere but in reality to minimise any 'embarrasment re Sarah'] and not the Queen or the Duke, who, it could be announced are 'not travelling because of their ages' etc.

And then, a few weeks after the wedding, the Queen could host an Evening Reception for the newlyweds at (say) St James's Palace, and after posing with the newlyweds and close members of the Royal Family for a photo, she and Philip could slip away 'to leave the dancing and merrymaking to the young people'.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Great info as usual Diarist, but I would be VERY surprised if either Eugenie or Beatrice did not marry at St George's Windsor or some other "Royal" location.

I could see Beatrice and Dave honeymooning on Necker Island...his boss Sir Richard Branson would be only too happy to host HM's granddaughter's honeymoon.

Beatrice's wedding will be modest indeed compared to William's and perhaps even Zara's, but on some resort island away from Britain? No way.

And I completely understand the DoE or any other member of the BRF being uncomfortable around Sarah, but this is her moment as mother of the bride.

ETA: I doubt Camilla would be there without Charles...I get the feeling she is not a big Sarah fan at all.
If they can't cope with that, it is THEIR problem not Sarah's imo, and any put out family members can simply stay put out...and away.

I have speculated in other posts that the DoE would probably make excuses not to attend the wedding of his granddaughters due to just such a problem, and I was practically jeered out of the thread.

I think it would be a shame if this happened, personally.

 

[Zonk]

I would think (and hope) that if any members of the BRF had issues with Sarah, they would put them aside for their granddaughter and/or niece's day.

It isn't about them or Sarah, its about Beatrice and Eugenie.

Somehow I think that they will. They are used to the eyes of the world being on them, they will be able to stand next to each other, smile and move on without missing a beat.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

And to that Zonk all I have to say is one big huge AMEN!

Eugenie and Beatrice did not choose their own mother...no one does. They have as much right to a family wedding as anyone else in the BRF.

 

[Hopewell]

I liked Sarah back in the day...now I just cringe. She constantly makes it worse for herself by going on Oprah or wherever and yapping about it all. She should have learned from Charles and Diana's horrible tv mistakes and learned to just shut up. The yapping severely detracts from the great job she and Andrew have done with raising their daughters and with Sarah's work for charity. Go and Sin No More is what she needs to do--(I mean that simply as an expression)

 

[sliver_bic]

Great info as usual Diarist, but I would be VERY surprised if either Eugenie or Beatrice did not marry at St George's Windsor or some other "Royal" location.

I could see Beatrice and Dave honeymooning on Necker Island...his boss Sir Richard Branson would be only too happy to host HM's granddaughter's honeymoon.

Agreed. Not just because because of the more traditional locations available but simply cause it would look rather strange, imo. Yes, Branson and his kids are in with the Royals and and those connections connected Dave and Bea but making an island available would open the RF to some serious questions as to what kind of pull Branson has.

I would think (and hope) that if any members of the BRF had issues with Sarah, they would put them aside for their granddaughter and/or niece's day.

It isn't about them or Sarah, its about Beatrice and Eugenie.

Somehow I think that they will. They are used to the eyes of the world being on them, they will be able to stand next to each other, smile and move on without missing a beat.

Quite right and it's not like there won't be that stern warning for Sarah be on her best behavior. Unless the situation is legitimately unavoidable, she can avoid Her Majesty and the DoE. Just have fun, enjoy yourself and be invisible whenever possible. That last part is most important, such a day should be Bea and Eug's and theirs alone, if Sarah can't be asked to not put herself in the spotlight then she can't be called a good mother.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I liked Sarah back in the day...now I just cringe. She constantly makes it worse for herself by going on Oprah or wherever and yapping about it all. She should have learned from Charles and Diana's horrible tv mistakes and learned to just shut up. The yapping severely detracts from the great job she and Andrew have done with raising their daughters and with Sarah's work for charity. Go and Sin No More is what she needs to do--(I mean that simply as an expression)

Interesting as I am the complete opposite - I loathed her when she was married to Andrew but have come to respect her and feel sorry for her since the divorce.

 

[Meadow]

I think any wedding of E or B's would take place in one of the more traditional locations. Because Sarah is very well aware of their titles and I don't think she would have it any other way. I do think she would be asked to be on her best behaviour and the Queen and Family would be polite except maybe Dof E who according to a lot of reports really can't stand her. I bet Oprah would expect an invite if she and Sarah are still friends by then. They have already been together 5 years most girls would be getting a little sick of waiting but then they may split up! I never liked Sarah I even told my mother before she married Andrew she was trouble her greediness etc was already shining through. She had the look of a greedy kid given the key to a sweet shop. IF and when the girls do marry I expect most of the family to show up maybe not all the senior members but I'm sure Harry and William would. I get a feeling an engagement isn't too far off for her we still have the rest of the year to go!

 

[Meadow]

As for the hat she didn't have to wear it. She has lots of hats and if she really thought it was that ridicules she could have said no. Besides she would have seen a sketch and tried it on at least once so I don't buy the she didn't know what she was getting idea. The girl has very little taste in hats and clothes she just doesn't have a good eye for fashion. She loves hats that get attention I remember that butterfly hat it was awful and there have been others. She knows a bad hat gets lots of attention she has done it several times there is even a website dedicated to her bad hats! Eugenie didn't look much better that skirt was odd and the top too tight her hat was ugly but not as stupid looking as Bea's. Glad she turned it around and got money for charity but I hope she doesn't continue to do such things.

 

[rmay286]

I get a feeling an engagement isn't too far off for her we still have the rest of the year to go!

I'm betting Beatrice will marry in 2013 (I agree with those who said not in the Jubilee Year). She turns 25 that year, which is the age royals can marry without the Queen's consent (not that I think the Queen would withhold it from Beatrice and Dave).

 

[Iluvbertie]

I'm betting Beatrice will marry in 2013 (I agree with those who said not in the Jubilee Year). She turns 25 that year, which is the age royals can marry without the Queen's consent (not that I think the Queen would withhold it from Beatrice and Dave).

But without the Queen's consent they have to wait another year.

The RMA gives two ways a royal can marry - with the consent of the monarch or after 25 they can apply to the Privy Council directly and they can get consent that way but only after a year and only if neither of the houses of parliament have expressed a negative viewpoint.

So they can't marry at 25 without the Queen's consent - they can at 26 if, at 25, they applied to the Privy Council and neither of the houses of parliament objected.

 

[Mirabel]

I do think Beatrice will marry several years before Eugenie does.
(I could see Eugenie waiting until she's around thirty).

 

[Diarist]

........
It is also why I suspect that they mightn't attend her wedding and will find some excuse.

Interesting point, bertie. I actually stated this on another thread - saying that if Beatrice were to marry Dave Clark, if the wedding was held on Necker Island, then it would give the Queen and Prince Philip an easy excuse for not attending: 'we are too old to travel that far for a wedding etc'. There may however be a half-way house about attending a York princess wedding: to me, the most amazing thing about Catherine and William's wedding and then Zara and Mike's happy day was how they had 're-defined' Royal Weddings:, not so long ago, the typical Royal wedding was Church Ceremony followed by a 'formal wedding breakfast' at which only the Royal family and very close friends and relatives would be present for the duration. Edward and Sophie set the stage for change to begin, with an evening reception but it was at William's and Zara's weddings that things really did alter dramatically: Church Ceremony [in the usual 'Windsor Way'] but THEN a Reception at which many more of the couple's friends were present, FOLLOWED BY the novel concept of the Queen actually leaving early to 'let the young folk carry on'. Extrapolating this a bit, I can well imagine that if Beatrice and Eugenie marry in the UK, all the Royal Family could be present at the Religious Ceremony, but the Queen and Prince Philip could then absent themselves [pleading old age and tiredness] from the Reception and the otherwise inevitable meeting with Sarah.............. Just a thought and not meant to offend.

Alex

 

[yvr girl]

I do not think for one minute that William and Harry would skip her wedding. Missing a birthday is one thing. It would be a horrible snub to skip the wedding. It is very likely that the Queen would leave the reception early. I don't think this would be to avoid Sarah, as much as to let the young people have their fun. She left William's and Zara's weddings early.

 

[angieuk]

If Beatrice and Dave do get married next year I wonder if her mother will still be following her daughter around like an older sister? Only this time it will be with her son-in-law tagged on as well.

Sarah has never developed an independent life away from her daughters. She should have developed her own life and interests but seems to be constantly living in her daughters' shadow!

52 on 15 October 2011 ... maybe there is still that special someone for her, waiting to take her away from it all, and give her daughters a break!

 

[Iluvbertie]

I do not think for one minute that William and Harry would skip her wedding. Missing a birthday is one thing. It would be a horrible snub to skip the wedding. It is very likely that the Queen would leave the reception early. I don't think this would be to avoid Sarah, as much as to let the young people have their fun. She left William's and Zara's weddings early.

As they skipped her formal 18th coming of age birthday to attend a friend's 23rd I could easily see them not attending Beatrice's wedding.

As Philip has made it clear that he won't go anywhere where Sarah is and the Queen is ruled, in family matters by Philip, they simply won't be able to attend as they would have to actually sit near her at the wedding itself.

I can see the girls both choosing very low key weddings with just a few friends to avoid having to have the snub made public e.g. Necker Island but inviting none of the family either other than parents and siblings.

 

[EchoLynn]

I think the Queen atleast would forgo the animosity for one day, for her granddaughters... They can very easily arrange it so that the Queen would'nt have to say a word to the duchess. It would be the mature thing to do for both the girls, I think...

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think the Queen atleast would forgo the animosity for one day, for her granddaughters... They can very easily arrange it so that the Queen would'nt have to say a word to the duchess. It would be the mature thing to do for both the girls, I think...

The problem is Philip - if Philip says no then the Queen will go along with him - he has ruled the family since day 1.

The Queen has been true to her vows and her wedding vows included 'obey' so at home Philip rules not the Queen.

It would be hard to avoid Sarah as she would be in the front row right next to Andrew.

I think the girls will try to avoid the situation by possibly having very small weddings and even going overseas.