The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1041  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:08 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
That's how all titles work, AFAIK - going back to the days when counts were expected to marry someone of equal rank but it was considered OK for them to have umpteen mistresses and illegitimate children. But Edo doesn't use the title anyway. And, whilst it's a gorgeous palace, they're not going to be living in it. It looks as if it's used as a hotel - if you look it up on Google, it comes up on Trip Advisor and people have written reviews of their stays there. I dread to think how much it costs, but it looks lovely!
Its more air bnb. But in the sense of the fancy houses the rich and famous rent when on vacation. Itís open for weddings and such.

https://villamapellimozzi.com/old/en/

Itís booked for a year as I canít find any dates on booking sites that are free to see price. But the only estimate I could find is a minimum $2500 a night.

Itís run by a female member of the family and her husband. Not sure the relation to Alex. It also contains the family art collection which Alex has grown for decades.
__________________

  #1042  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:21 PM
duchesschicana's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, United States
Posts: 281
Edo leaves comments on the Villa's instagram occasionally last time was in 2018
__________________

  #1043  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:23 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Legally recognised or not the Italian nobility still use their titles socially and these are still inherited according to the different rules depending on geographical origin, terms of ennoblement, which monarchy the family originated from etc...
As the discussion originated in a comment regarding Wolfie Mapelli Mozzi potentially feeling excluded from his family, I think the point was that the original exclusionary rules are no longer enforceable, as Edo Mapelli Mozzi demonstrates: He would have been a count according to the rules used whilst the nobility was legally recognized, but he uses "Mr." socially and is billed accordingly by the Royal Household. Wolfie would not have been a count according to the original rules, but should he one day decide to use "Count Wolfie" socially, the Collegio Araldico historical society would have no legal standing to interfere, and likewise, Wolfie will surely not be deprived of his share of his father's fortune on the basis of illegitimacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
To be frank I've long been quite puzzled by how many members of this forum which is dedicated to royal and noble families are very quick to put forward opinions in the vein of that because a state doesn't recognise the titles of these families they're irrelevant and so are any discussion about them
I am a bit puzzled as I cannot remember posts opining that discussions about unrecognized families and titles are irrelevant to the forum - the discussion of this particular unrecognized title seems robust. Information on the legal standing of suggested titles is surely relevant to discussions of them.
  #1044  
Old 03-01-2020, 05:13 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 819
Some people like using titles that aren't legally recognised. Jackie Kennedy's sister was usually known as Princess Lee Radziwill even though Poland hasn't recognised titles since just after the First World War ... and even after she'd been divorced from her Polish prince for years! But Edo just goes as Mr/Signor.


I think Francesco da Mosto, the Venetian historian who does programmes for the BBC sometimes, uses his title of Count. It'd be quite interesting to see a programme on the Mapello Mozzi family and their palace, but I can't see it happening.
  #1045  
Old 03-03-2020, 04:25 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 6,203
How about beaded lace edging on the wedding veil?
  #1046  
Old 03-03-2020, 07:41 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 544
Corona?

There were some ideas here in the Forums about the wedding with a little cermony in England and a big, fat party in Italy. Me thinks, since Italy is hard hit with the corona-virus this idea is dying, right?

And sorry for asking: Will Beatrice become a countess Mapelli Mozzi after the wedding?
  #1047  
Old 03-03-2020, 08:42 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
And sorry for asking: Will Beatrice become a countess Mapelli Mozzi after the wedding?
Both Buckingham Palace and Edo Mapelli Mozzi himself treat Edo as a "Mr.", so it is safe to assume that they will not refer to Beatrice as a countess.

Private societies or private persons (though not governments, given that the title has no legal standing in Italy or in the United Kingdom) who recognize Mr. Mapelli Mozzi as a count will recognize his wife as a countess in the same way, as the custom of calling married women by their husbands' titles historically also prevailed in Italy.

I am not sure if she would be recognized as a "Mapelli Mozzi" by private Italian societies as my understanding is that the majority of women in Italy no longer take their husbands' names.
  #1048  
Old 03-03-2020, 09:52 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 544



If I understood it right, then Edo is the heir of the count title and fortune (if there is any...).

So, I am questioning here more for the kids, they will hopefully have. I mean, the UK has a harsh tradition of "phasing out" the kids of the non-nuclear royal family from noble titles. Rather a countess or count, than a mere Lady or Sir, right?

Plus: If they have more than one kid, the italian tradition can be continued.
  #1049  
Old 03-03-2020, 10:15 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,078


According to the former Italian laws, all male members of the family in legitimate male lines would have been counts (see the article posted in message #1033). But it would surprise me if Buckingham Palace referred to the couple's sons as counts, when their father is referred to as a plain Mr.

I am not sure about the fortune, but I believe UK law allows a family fortune to be divided (or not) in whatever manner the owner desires.
  #1050  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:20 PM
HighGoalHighDreams's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unspecified, United States
Posts: 399
Victor, Edo's "title" is a mere fiction. It would not be "better" for the children to be referred to as count or countess in a fictional sense than if they were properly entitled to be Lord or Lady (which they are not). Even if they were to be referred to as count or countess, they are no more a count or countess than if everyone in my social circle got together and decided that we are going to call me a countess from now on. There is no reality to that title and has not been for close to a hundred years.

When I see discussion of Edo as a "count" I am reminded inextricably of the scene in Downton Abbey when Thomas goes to interview at a stately home that is all but empty and in total disrepair, but the Lord who lives there is convinced that it is still in its state of former glory. I can't help but picture a social group of people (and I don't believe Edo is amongst their number) referring to themselves by titles stripped away 80 years ago as like that old nobleman.
  #1051  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:36 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 10,202
So how come we refer to the long defunct House of Hanover's members as "prince" and "princess"? Didn't Germany abolish those titles too? They even have their own thread here.

Ditto the Habsburgs of Austria and the French Orleans. ..why are those titles not as "fictional" as the comital Mapelli Mozzi?

If Alessandro Mapelli-Mozzi is comfortable calling himself, his son and their descendants Count and Donna Nobile, that is quite enough for me.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
  #1052  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:52 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,508
Edo would be no different then the Italian and French dukes and German princes using their titles. Prince Ernst august of Hannover anyone??

The show undercover Prince/SS with people using questionable titles is another prime example.

All that matters is Edo doesn't use it. So it will not impact his wife or children. He was raised in England as was his father. He doesn't seem to feel any draw to using the title.

It may be different if it was a title like Count of X.
  #1053  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:10 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 10,202
I agree with you. I even used the House of Hanover as an example in my comment. I don't see any debate about the futility of using long defunct titles for other members of the nobility on this Forum.

Why isn't Ernst August IV called Mr. Hanover if the same rules apply?
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
  #1054  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:11 AM
HighGoalHighDreams's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unspecified, United States
Posts: 399
I won't derail this thread with conversations about titles other than that of Edo because (1) it is completely off topic and (2) I have no idea how those titles have any similarities or differences to Edo's situation because until this moment in time, I could not have told you those situations existed. I have no doubt there is an appropriate thread about titles of defunct houses where those who are educated about those situations are happy to engage in discussion.

Nothing in my above post was my opinion. It's literally not a point of debate whether or not Edo's title is a mere fiction or not. To quote the great philosopher Monty Python, it's rolled down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

Now, there could surely be a debate about whether people should still use these titles. It wouldn't belong in this thread, though (except as it relates to Edo), and you would have a more productive conversation with someone who, prior to this moment, knew there was a person called Prince August of Hanover.
  #1055  
Old 03-04-2020, 04:25 AM
kbk kbk is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 359
The noble titles are preserved in Germany as part of people's official names, for example the head of the Hanoverians is Mr Ernst August Prinz von Hannover. There are some sources claiming that in his British passport he is styled as HRH Ernest Augustus Guelph (??), which includes a bizarre recognition of his Royal Highness style and Anglicization of his family name with no recognition of his princely title, which is not bizarre at all as foreign titles are not recognised within the British realm in general.
Quote:
official recognition is not given to the use of foreign titles by British citizens and care should be taken not to address any British citizen (whether by naturalisation or otherwise) by such a title
Quote:
By Royal Warrant of 27 April 1932, the use in England and Wales of foreign titles of nobility was discontinued, and existing warrants licensing the use of such titles were revoked
In Italy, titles are not part of the legal system anymore and their use is a matter of courtesy. Legally, they are non-existent. Thus, Edoardo is a Mr, not a Count. But sure, you can style him however you want.
  #1056  
Old 03-04-2020, 04:29 AM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
I won't derail this thread with conversations about titles other than that of Edo because (1) it is completely off topic and (2) I have no idea how those titles have any similarities or differences to Edo's situation because until this moment in time, I could not have told you those situations existed. I have no doubt there is an appropriate thread about titles of defunct houses where those who are educated about those situations are happy to engage in discussion.

Nothing in my above post was my opinion. It's literally not a point of debate whether or not Edo's title is a mere fiction or not. To quote the great philosopher Monty Python, it's rolled down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

Now, there could surely be a debate about whether people should still use these titles. It wouldn't belong in this thread, though (except as it relates to Edo), and you would have a more productive conversation with someone who, prior to this moment, knew there was a person called Prince August of Hanover.
Prince Ernst, Princess Caroline of Monaco’s estranged husband, father of her youngest child. Fairly well known person-so using him in this context of title discussion is valid.
He is distantly in the line of succession for the British throne, his uncle married Prince Philip’s sister, and he is first cousins with Queen Sophia of Spain and King Constantine as his father’s sister was their mother.
  #1057  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:24 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 819
Some people use titles, some don't. I mentioned Jackie Kennedy's sister calling herself Princess Lee Radziwill, presumably because it sounded better than plain old Mrs. There's an ongoing fuss in Austria because legally you shouldn't even use "von" - so von Trapps were officially just the plain old Trapps. In practice, it's up to the person concerned - if Edo wanted to call himself count, I don't suppose anyone would mind, but it seems that he doesn't.
  #1058  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:50 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Some people use titles, some don't. I mentioned Jackie Kennedy's sister calling herself Princess Lee Radziwill, presumably because it sounded better than plain old Mrs. There's an ongoing fuss in Austria because legally you shouldn't even use "von" - so von Trapps were officially just the plain old Trapps. In practice, it's up to the person concerned - if Edo wanted to call himself count, I don't suppose anyone would mind, but it seems that he doesn't.
I can't see the point. If the titles are not now "legal", because the country is a republic, why use them? Families which were recently royal, I cut some slack, as sometimes they are involved in public life or hope for a restoration.. they continue something of the role they used to have as charity fund raisers etc. but after 70 years, I don't think that Italy is likely to become a monarchy again.. so why use the old titles?
  #1059  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:04 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,651
Note that even HRH Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark had to become a commoner with a fairytale name: Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten, R.N. while the Greek monarchy was alive and his titles legally valid in Greece.
  #1060  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:29 AM
Lilyflo's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
How about beaded lace edging on the wedding veil?
I'm not keen on the one in the video but it could be very pretty with hand embroidered motifs or a trim of very fine silk lace. I hope she chooses ivory or cream rather than white as the creamier tones would better suit her colouring.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engagement of Princess Beatrice of York and Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi: September 26, 2019 JessRulz The Duke of York, Sarah Duchess of York, and Family 153 09-29-2019 02:36 AM
Princess Beatrice: Relationships Musings and Suggestions Pranter The Duke of York, Sarah Duchess of York, and Family 520 09-26-2019 07:26 AM




Popular Tags
abdication abu dhabi american history anastasia anastasia once upon a time ancestry archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism biography british royal family brownbitcoinqueen carolin chittagong commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs doll duke of sussex facts family tree games george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf haakon vii hill history house of windsor imperial household intro italian royal family jack brooksbank jacobite japan jewellery kids movie line of succession list of rulers luxembourg mailing meghan markle monarchy nepalese royal jewels prince constantijn prince dimitri princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn walailak princess ribha queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen mathilde queen maxima random facts royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royal wedding serbian royal family snowdon sussex swedish queen taiwan tracts tradition uae customs unsubscribe videos wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:09 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×