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  #121  
Old 10-23-2021, 06:59 PM
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Not only has Andrew never been convicted of a serious offence, he has never been charged with one. Allegations have been made against him, and civil proceedings for damages have been commenced against him, but no criminal proceedings have been brought. It seems clear to me that he is guilty of arrogance and poor judgment, but he has not been convicted of any crime or, so far, of any civil wrong. He has been stood down from royal duties and that seems enough to me. I see no reason why he should have to leave Royal Lodge.
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  #122  
Old 10-23-2021, 10:26 PM
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I want to apologize for my rude and ill-advised post.

I had just recently re-watched his Maitlis interview and was not feeling charitable towards him as I found his responses confounding.
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  #123  
Old 10-23-2021, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I want to apologize for my rude and ill-advised post.

I had just recently re-watched his Maitlis interview and was not feeling charitable towards him as I found his responses confounding.
I don't think there's anyone here that watched that interview and didn't come away from it really wondering just what kind of a man Andrew is and I don't think any of us felt too charitable towards him either. I still don't. I think he's the kind of man that mothers warn their daughters about.

I just feel that Andrew has had enough repercussions come at him from what's happened and he *has* lost a lot because of it. However, it'd be quite a cruel world if we kept getting punished for the mistakes we make for the rest of our lives. Sometimes huge mistakes like this are the best teachers to tell us just where we're going wrong. Sometimes we see the light. Sometimes we don't.
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  #124  
Old 10-23-2021, 11:09 PM
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I don’t feel think that Andrew is the sort of person who learns from his mistakes Osipi, I just don’t.

The same characteristics noticed in the boy and youth have recurred in the adult Andrew throughout his life. Arrogance, rudeness towards those who felt he could push around, check, boorishness and crudity as a young man, check, and other unpleasant features, corruptive tendencies, greed, that came to the fore later, check.

There’s no real evidence that he’s learned anything from his behaviour even now. That was seen when he ignored the plight of Epstein’s victims throughout the BBC interview and stated that he met ‘interesting people’ at Epstein’s house. Really?

There just seems to have been a blind spot born of entitlement for almost all his 60+ years, IMO.
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  #125  
Old 10-30-2021, 02:20 PM
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Andrew needs to go to the US to help draw a line under this saga once and for all, while his mother is still alive ideally.
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  #126  
Old 10-30-2021, 02:50 PM
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Why would he do that? If he is not compelled to do so, the best thing is to keep silent and eventaully the story will die
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  #127  
Old 10-30-2021, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Andrew needs to go to the US to help draw a line under this saga once and for all, while his mother is still alive ideally.
Under the UK and US legal systems the concept used to be INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. I do realise that in both countries that concept has been thrown away sadly.

It isn't up to Andrew to prove anything. It is up to the complainant, in a civil trial, or the prosecution in a criminal trial, to prove the guilt.

Even answering questions by US officials isn't up to Andrew to go to the US to clear things up but for the FBI to follow the standard international protocol - to go to the UK, interview him in the offices of his lawyers under the UK's interview protocols - PACE rules, which give a lot of protections to the questions that can be asked as well as the methods that can be used and all interviews have to be recorded. The FBI don't want to do that however, or else they would have done so.
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  #128  
Old 10-30-2021, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Andrew needs to go to the US to help draw a line under this saga once and for all, while his mother is still alive ideally.
That would be the worst possible thing Andrew could do. He couldn't even muster an interview that made him look good. Iluvbertie just listed the reasons why Andrew wouldn't go to the US.

To be honest here, I believe that if we hear of Andrew making a deposition and/or answering questions, it will be in relation to his friendship with Ghislaine Maxwell who still has to face criminal charges in court. I would expect Andrew (on his team of lawyer's advice) to not say a word.
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  #129  
Old 10-31-2021, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Under the UK and US legal systems the concept used to be INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. I do realise that in both countries that concept has been thrown away sadly.
Of course, but this doesn't stop an innocent person from proving/attempting to prove their innocence if they so wish.
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  #130  
Old 10-31-2021, 01:06 AM
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They can't prove their innocence until they are charged with a crime however. Andrew hasn't been charged with any crime. The Metropolitan police have actually carried out three investigations into Virginia's allegations and have come to the conclusion that there isn't any crime in the UK.
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  #131  
Old 10-31-2021, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Under the UK and US legal systems the concept used to be INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.
Well, within the same breath could be said, that you must to be granted equal rights, well, equal!

So Prince Andrew here: How equal is he to the other suspected perps?

We had once the discussion here in the forums, if he enjoys some form of legal immunity as a birthright as a Prince. This discussion led to nothing and is still to be answered...

The whole investigation of the Metropolitan Poice for example: Was it thorough or was it just closed with the "expected/demanded" result", so that no damage would be done to the Crown, the Monarchy, the State?

If one tells me Prince Andrew is in reality just citizen Andrew with a funny name, then I say, Yeah. soon!
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  #132  
Old 10-31-2021, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Metropolitan police have actually carried out three investigations into Virginia's allegations and have come to the conclusion that there isn't any crime in the UK.
I don't think the Met have said that there was no crime committed. They just said they'll be taking no further action, which could mean they don't have enough evidence to pursue the claims further.
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  #133  
Old 10-31-2021, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I don't think the Met have said that there was no crime committed. They just said they'll be taking no further action, which could mean they don't have enough evidence to pursue the claims further.


So there is no crime committed. The principle is that it is brought to Justice. But if three investigations do not enable the prosecution to assemble a convincing and coherent dossier and therefore there is no case, you can not imply there was a crime but they could not prove it.

It is the same as the late Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath, the former Chief of the General Staff Lord Bramall, the former Home Secretary Lord Brittan, former MI6 director Sir Maurice Oldfield but also Sir Cliff Richard and others were faced with accusations of child abuse, exploitation, whatever. All these claims were proven untrue, products of fantasts. But in the meantime lives and reputations have been destroyed.

When Scotland Yard and the Metropolitan Police can not assemble a case which stands scrutiny and can not be brought before Justice, the conclusion can never be: "There was a crime, they just can not prove it". Otherwise we are no ounce better than the fantasts accusing Sir Cliff Richard or whatever.
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  #134  
Old 10-31-2021, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I don't think the Met have said that there was no crime committed. They just said they'll be taking no further action, which could mean they don't have enough evidence to pursue the claims further.
In the UK the age of consent is 16. She was 17 therefore no crime was committed.
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  #135  
Old 10-31-2021, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
In the UK the age of consent is 16. She was 17 therefore no crime was committed.
Is the age from where on prostitution is allowed 16 too? I don't think so...
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  #136  
Old 10-31-2021, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
Is the age from where on prostitution is allowed 16 too? I don't think so...
Prostitution needs a transaction: I give you my services and you pay me for it.
Up to Ms Giuffre to prove that the Duke sought her services.

In the mantime another alleged victim of Mr Epstein, Ms Rita Or, nlamed Ms Giuffre to have been Mr Epstein's girlfried, actively roamed girls to - alike herself - join Mr Epstein's circle and discover life of luxury, fun and hedonistic pleasure.
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  #137  
Old 10-31-2021, 11:52 AM
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As far as I know prostitution isn't illegal per se... but many activities around it are. Trafficking is illegal
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  #138  
Old 10-31-2021, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prostitution needs a transaction: I give you my services and you pay me for it.
Up to Ms Giuffre to prove that the Duke sought her services.
That is the difference between us: I think it is up to Prince Charles to decide... The Queen, Her Majesty, is unwilling to do so. So, it might be up to the next generaion to decide Prince Andrew's fate...

Sweaty, "randy" Andy might be in a sea of troubles - and it has nothing to do with the Giuffre case...
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  #139  
Old 10-31-2021, 01:45 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
That is the difference between us: I think it is up to Prince Charles to decide... The Queen, Her Majesty, is unwilling to do so. So, it might be up to the next generaion to decide Prince Andrew's fate...

Sweaty, "randy" Andy might be in a sea of troubles - and it has nothing to do with the Giuffre case...
what has Charles to do with it? Andrew has had to give up his public life and live quietly. He will never be a working royal again. he hasn't been convicted of a crime...so I dont know what Charles is supposed to do.
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  #140  
Old 10-31-2021, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
what has Charles to do with it? Andrew has had to give up his public life and live quietly. He will never be a working royal again. he hasn't been convicted of a crime...so I dont know what Charles is supposed to do.
Well, Andrew is still around guns blazing: "Prince Andrew Accuses Virginia Giuffre Of Procuring 'Slutty Underage Girls' For Epstein"
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...-girls-epstein

From that: "Alleged Royal pedophile Prince Andrew is looking to turn the tables on his accuser, Virginia Giuffre, who he says was involved in the "wilful recruitment and trafficking of young girls for sexual abuse," according to the Sunday Times, citing a late Friday court filing."

The Queen has been looking rather passive on this. What makes me wonder, what Charles wil do about it....
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