A daughter for Princess Beatrice and Edoardo - Sienna Elizabeth: September 18, 2021

[Leopoldine]

Sienna Mapelli Mozzi is a lovely elegant name.

Will Beatrice and Edo's little daughter have a title from her Dad's lineage? Some kind of honorific?

 

[Mirabel]

I would have preferred a family name, and something more traditional.
But at least Sienna is a pretty name, and Beatrice did use Elizabeth as well.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Sienna Mapelli Mozzi is a lovely elegant name.

Will Beatrice and Edo's little daughter have a title from her Dad's lineage? Some kind of honorific?

According to her paternal grandfather Sienna is a "Nobile", and her mother a Countess.

According to the British government and TRF, she is Miss Sienna Mapelli Mozzi.

 

[Leopoldine]

So, can she be Dona Sienna Mapelli Mozzi?

 

[Mbruno]

According to her paternal grandfather Sienna is a "Nobile", and her mother a Countess.

Has her paternal grandfather said so publicly?

Titles may not have legal recognition, but be still used socially. That is the case for example of noble titles in Italy following the end of the monarchy. Having said that, Sienna is British and will be raised in the UK. I don't see her being ever called "Donna" in England (it wouldn't make much sense).

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Alessandro Mapelli Mozzi made the comment about the titles at the time of the engagement of Beatrice and Edoardo. It was widely published in various media.

 

[AC21091968]

Savanna and Sienna are kind of close in spelling & pronunciation, so I can see how your Dad mixed them up. But when I read your post putting those two names together, Sienna Miller and her sister Savannah popped into my head.

Savannah was also the name that I thought of when Sienna's name was announced, because of the closeness in pronunciation. It wasn't a half day later, I thought about Senna Lewis (born in 22 June 2010), daughter of Lady Davina Windsor and Gary Lewis who has the most similar spelling to Sienna (with a difference of one letter). Coincidentally, both Savannah and Senna were born in 2010.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think at times we read too much into things and look for hidden meanings or signals.

The new baby has a lovely name that was her parents
choice.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

According to her paternal grandfather Sienna is a "Nobile", and her mother a Countess.

According to the British government and TRF, she is Miss Sienna Mapelli Mozzi.

Also according to the government of Italy, where the former nobility and titles have no legal recognition according to the Transitory and Final Provisions of the Constitution.

https://www.quirinale.it/allegati_statici/en/costituzione_inglese.pdf

Has her paternal grandfather said so publicly?

Titles may not have legal recognition, but be still used socially. That is the case for example of noble titles in Italy following the end of the monarchy. Having said that, Sienna is British and will be raised in the UK. I don't see her being ever called "Donna" in England (it wouldn't make much sense).

See the link for the interview with Alessandro Mapelli Mozzi.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...rice-Contessa-marrying-family-posher-own.html

Notwithstanding his interview, Buckingham Palace named Alessandro as "Mr." in the announcement of Beatrice and Edo's engagement.

https://www.royal.uk/her-royal-high...-edoardo-mapelli-mozzi-are-engaged-be-married

 

[angieuk]

Serena Armstrong-Jones, Countess of Snowdon; Princess Margaret's daughter-in-law.

 

[Mbruno]

Also according to the government of Italy, where the former nobility and titles have no legal recognition according to the Transitory and Final Provisions of the Constitution.

https://www.quirinale.it/allegati_statici/en/costituzione_inglese.pdf




See the link for the interview with Alessandro Mapelli Mozzi.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...rice-Contessa-marrying-family-posher-own.html

Notwithstanding his interview, Buckingham Palace named Alessandro as "Mr." in the announcement of Beatrice and Edo's engagement.

https://www.royal.uk/her-royal-high...-edoardo-mapelli-mozzi-are-engaged-be-married

Which is correct since, in the UK, he is just a plain Mr. Nevertheless, reading the Daily Mail article, I was impressed by Mr Mapelli Mozzi's family pedigree and surprised to see that his connection to Italy is stronger than I thought even though his family has been living in Britain for a long time.

It is really unfortunate that the Italian Republic no longer officially recognizes nobility and the orders of the House of Savoy, some of which like the Ordine della Annunziata are almost as old as the Order of the Garter. I respect republican ideals of equality, but my opinion is that nobility and knighthood in Europe should be seen as part of the historical heritage of the continent and, therefore, the use of noble titles should not be banned or forbidden by republics, although it should have no privilege attached thereto and it is OK that no new titles be granted.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Sienna Mapelli Mozzi is not the first royal Sienna. Princess Margaretha, Mrs. Ambler, the eldest sister of the King of Sweden, has a granddaughter named Sienna Ambler (born in 2000), and there is a Countess Sienna Bernadotte af Wisborg (born in 2015) who is a descendant of Prince Oscar of Sweden, Duke of Gotland. Both Siennas were born in the UK.

Which is correct since, in the UK, he is just a plain Mr.

Alessandro does call himself a count in the UK; I believe his announcement of his daughter's engagement in the Telegraph, in which he is addressed as Count, was posted somewhere on this forum. But he would correctly be a plain Mr. on any official papers in the UK or Italy, and I assume in his native Argentina as well.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Sienna Elizabeth Mapelli Mozzi is lovely.

I like the S initial, for Sarah, and reddish burnt colour connection.
Elizabeth is a perfect choice.
Beatrice and Edoardo have chosen a name that Sienna will like.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

An anonymous family friend of the couple discussed the choice of name with Hello magazine.

A family friend of the couple has now explained the sweet meaning behind the name Sienna.

"They were looking for an Italian name which started with an S for Sarah, to honour the Duchess [Sarah Ferguson], and also reflected the golden rust colour of both the Duchess's hair colour and Beatrice's, which the new baby shares," they said.​

The friend's explanation seems a bit confused, as Sienna is an English name, rather than an Italian one. It is, however, inspired by the Italian city of Siena.

Unlike some English names, the name Sienna has not caught on in Italy. While Sienna was the 23rd most popular name for girls born in England in 2019, the name was given to just 12 newborn girls in Italy in 2019. In comparison, Evelyn, the 22nd most popular name for girls born in England, was given to 216 girls born in Italy.

 

[Heavs]

An anonymous family friend of the couple discussed the choice of name with Hello magazine.

A family friend of the couple has now explained the sweet meaning behind the name Sienna.

"They were looking for an Italian name which started with an S for Sarah, to honour the Duchess [Sarah Ferguson], and also reflected the golden rust colour of both the Duchess's hair colour and Beatrice's, which the new baby shares," they said.​

The friend's explanation seems a bit confused, as Sienna is an English name, rather than an Italian one. It is, however, inspired by the Italian city of Siena.

Unlike some English names, the name Sienna has not caught on in Italy. While Sienna was the 23rd most popular name for girls born in England in 2019, the name was given to just 12 newborn girls in Italy in 2019. In comparison, Evelyn, the 22nd most popular name for girls born in England, was given to 216 girls born in Italy.

Assuming that Hello! did have an actual source, that is easily explained by English born Beatrice and Edo going for the "Italian inspired" popular with English name Sienna, especially because of it's connection to her hair colour.

The message being "Italian sounding name that started with S for Sarah, suits the baby because of her hair and is classic but modern and works well with Christopher/Wolfie."

I'm pretty sure I saw articles saying "August was for Andrew" 8 months ago as well and it's possible that those initials were a factor.

 

[King of the Jungle]

What is the possibility of a double christening?
August and Sienna christened at the same service could be a goer.

 

[W.Y.CII]

A family friend of the couple has now explained the sweet meaning behind the name Sienna.

"They were looking for an Italian name which started with an S for Sarah, to honour the Duchess [Sarah Ferguson], and also reflected the golden rust colour of both the Duchess's hair colour and Beatrice's, which the new baby shares," they said.​

I'm pretty sure I saw articles saying "August was for Andrew" 8 months ago as well and it's possible that those initials were a factor.

They probably mean a (English) name related to Italy rather than an actual Italian name.

I don't realize August's "A" for Andrew and Sienna's "S" for Sarah, a nice subtle way to honor the sisters' parent.

 

[Iluvbertie]

What is the possibility of a double christening?
August and Sienna christened at the same service could be a goer.

The problem with a double christening is the christening gown. Which baby wears it and which one misses out on the tradition of that gown, or its predecessor, in which their mother's were christened?

 

[Claire]

I think that they made 2 replicate christening gown - so it might be possible.
There is no way that August, Lukas and Lili will fit into the gown however. All of them are already too big. The gowns are for 3-4 month olds. So I think that boat has sailed. But then again maybe the second gown was made at a different size?

That been said - there was additional fabric sourced when Angela Kelly made the replicates. So maybe they can make a hat, bib or ribbon so that there is still a link of some sort.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Who said the gown is for 3 - 4 months old babies. Eugenie was 9 months old when she was baptised in the original gown and the replica (one was made ... I don't know where the rumour that two were made started but all the official accounts I have read say one was made) was to the same size so they should still be able to fit.

 

[Curryong]

I have read from several different sources over the years that Eugenie was too big for the gown and they had difficulty fitting her in it. So much so that the back of the gown couldn’t be fastened up and so Eugenie was wrapped in a shawl to hide the opening.

 

[Claire]

I think it was in Angela Kelly's book but might be wrong. Not near the book at the moment.

 

[SLV]

There is no mention about that in Kellys book, The other side of the coin.

 

[Curryong]

Angela wasn’t working as the Queen’s dresser in 1990, the date of Eugenie’s baptism. She didn’t begin work in the Royal Household until 1994. I remember first reading about Eugenie and the tight christening gown (the original gown) soon after the christening at Sandringham.

 

[Hallo girl]

The book states that the original gown was showing wear , a new one was commissioned by the Queen , Angela does say she made it slightly bigger than the original as babies nowadays are bigger than in Victorian times. There is no mention of fitting a particular age. I.e
3 months 4 months.
There was only one new gown made with one or two slight changes from the original at the request of the queen. She also refers to it as the Queen Elizabeth 2 gown.
I am not sure if that is how it is now known or Angela worded like that for clarity when she was describing it.